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If God Knows Everything Why Do People Pray for Anything?
Posted 6/12/09

Daniel9878 wrote:


she sounds like a little girl


it is mentioned in the Bible though to keep a close relationship w/ God (tried to remember the verse but forgot) so she is correct (for those who believe in God) :]
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Posted 6/12/09
God has given us many blessing we should be thankful for. In return we pray to god.
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Posted 6/12/09
YOU ARE DUMB
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Posted 6/13/09
I also have questions about "god's" "omniscientness". For example, if he knew that Adam and Eve will fall into sin after eating the forbidden fruit, why make the damn tree of knowledge anyway?! My classmates said that it was a trial from "god". But why make a trial if you already knew what will happen? Just proves that even "god" is not perfect n_n;.
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Posted 6/13/09

Kill099 wrote:

I also have questions about "god's" "omniscientness". For example, if he knew that Adam and Eve will fall into sin after eating the forbidden fruit, why make the damn tree of knowledge anyway?! My classmates said that it was a trial from "god". But why make a trial if you already knew what will happen? Just proves that even "god" is not perfect n_n;.


and plus he made them that way
he created thier personality
and the type of person they are, would eat the fruit, he made them that way
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Posted 6/13/09

Daniel9878 wrote:


Kill099 wrote:

I also have questions about "god's" "omniscientness". For example, if he knew that Adam and Eve will fall into sin after eating the forbidden fruit, why make the damn tree of knowledge anyway?! My classmates said that it was a trial from "god". But why make a trial if you already knew what will happen? Just proves that even "god" is not perfect n_n;.


and plus he made them that way
he created thier personality
and the type of person they are, would eat the fruit, he made them that way


Actually, Adam and Eve were created perfectly without a sinful nature. However, God gave Adam and Eve free will. Humanity was created to have a relationship with God and with other humans, which is why God made Adam first and had a relationship with him, and then He made Eve so Adam could have a relationship with her and her having a relationship with God as well. God didn't make us a drones who can't help but choose what is right, if He did that we couldn't posses love and have relationships. However, with free will there is the choice to rebel and do what is wrong. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, He knew they would eat the fruit, but He didn't cause it. God knew mankind would sin from the beginning, and He also prepared a way to bridge the gap after we sinned through Jesus. In God's plan He knew Satan would rebel by his will, and He knew that Satan would temp Adam and Eve and that they would choose to sin. Yet God also knew that He would send Himself to pay the penalty for sin and bridge the gap. Even after humanity sinned God promised that He would bring a savior to reconcile the world from sin and redeem us from death. God knew we would fail, and because He knew that He also knew that He would have to save us through Jesus. But regardless, who are we to understand the full mind of God? God is superior on every level, and we are not created with a mind that can comprehend his logic, power, and wisdom. We can speculate and make opinions, but we won't be able to understand because our understanding is limited and our logic/reasoning comes from a sinful nature. God is Perfect, we are not. But in God's Perfection He already planned a way to bring us back to him
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Posted 6/13/09
I have a lot to say about God and his all powerful rule over everything, but this time I'll keep it to the topic. Yeah, it makes no sense, religion never did. Christians really didn't think the entire 'praise an ultimate being' thing out. I'd like to wonder how they still follow something so contradictory just as much as any other person who disagrees with the belief of God.

So basically, on topic, Christians really don't have an argument of any sort but try to weave their way around the flaws of their religion with long, senseless explanation, I know from experience. If there is something unexplainable they're either gonna just give a simple answer with the basic meaning of "just because" or they'll again, use a senseless explanation within the timespan you could use to make a nuclear reactor. Exaggeration yes, but if you took all the flaws and had the Christians explain it all, then not so improbable.
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Posted 6/13/09

digs wrote:


Daniel9878 wrote:


Kill099 wrote:

I also have questions about "god's" "omniscientness". For example, if he knew that Adam and Eve will fall into sin after eating the forbidden fruit, why make the damn tree of knowledge anyway?! My classmates said that it was a trial from "god". But why make a trial if you already knew what will happen? Just proves that even "god" is not perfect n_n;.


and plus he made them that way
he created thier personality
and the type of person they are, would eat the fruit, he made them that way


Actually, Adam and Eve were created perfectly without a sinful nature. However, God gave Adam and Eve free will. Humanity was created to have a relationship with God and with other humans, which is why God made Adam first and had a relationship with him, and then He made Eve so Adam could have a relationship with her and her having a relationship with God as well. God didn't make us a drones who can't help but choose what is right, if He did that we couldn't posses love and have relationships. However, with free will there is the choice to rebel and do what is wrong. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, He knew they would eat the fruit, but He didn't cause it. God knew mankind would sin from the beginning, and He also prepared a way to bridge the gap after we sinned through Jesus. In God's plan He knew Satan would rebel by his will, and He knew that Satan would temp Adam and Eve and that they would choose to sin. Yet God also knew that He would send Himself to pay the penalty for sin and bridge the gap. Even after humanity sinned God promised that He would bring a savior to reconcile the world from sin and redeem us from death. God knew we would fail, and because He knew that He also knew that He would have to save us through Jesus. But regardless, who are we to understand the full mind of God? God is superior on every level, and we are not created with a mind that can comprehend his logic, power, and wisdom. We can speculate and make opinions, but we won't be able to understand because our understanding is limited and our logic/reasoning comes from a sinful nature. God is Perfect, we are not. But in God's Perfection He already planned a way to bring us back to him :)


If "god" gave us free will but knowing that in the future, we'll fall into sin (and like you've said, is part of "god's" plan) means that we humans are not fully responsible for our actions. If so, then why are we so brutally punished?! It's like, god gave us the opportunity to sin. If "god" didn't create that tree, Adam and Eve will not sin in the first place, actually if "god" didn't made Lucifer, there will be no Satan to tempt Eve. If "god" already knew that we'll sin, why didn't he prevent it? Oh yeah he doesn't really care that because of our sins we'll suffer eternal damnation and suffering and yet in the end he have another plan to bring us back to him, how convenient for him. He'll put us through a lot of troubles and suffering so in the end we'll come back to him, this "god" is really bitchy. If "god" is our father, he really doesn't know how to take care of his children. Even parents will try to raise their children as safe as possible and anticipating what their children will do in the future.

About the lack of understanding etc, kings, queens and the clergy of the middle ages said that, that they were either "god's" children or they were chosen by "god" and only they can understand the true wisdom of "god", therefore, they have the right to rule their subjects and whatever they say is the law, how convenient for them. If "god" was so perfect, why does he need our money when we go to church? He created everything, right? But he needs more money just to spread his good words. Hmmm I think it's a good idea to make my own church right now, so easy to fool people with vague promises and salvation from "god" while having lots of money.
Posted 6/13/09
People are complicated beings..
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Posted 6/13/09
Maybe he want us to recognized our needs
and mistakes..

And I don't think so that he controls our
future and everything.. Maybe he knows
what could be our "FUTURE" but STILL
he had given us FREE WILL on what
were going to do w/ our lives..
Either to choose the right path or the wrong one..
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Posted 6/14/09

Kill099 wrote:


digs wrote:


Daniel9878 wrote:


Kill099 wrote:

I also have questions about "god's" "omniscientness". For example, if he knew that Adam and Eve will fall into sin after eating the forbidden fruit, why make the damn tree of knowledge anyway?! My classmates said that it was a trial from "god". But why make a trial if you already knew what will happen? Just proves that even "god" is not perfect n_n;.


and plus he made them that way
he created thier personality
and the type of person they are, would eat the fruit, he made them that way


Actually, Adam and Eve were created perfectly without a sinful nature. However, God gave Adam and Eve free will. Humanity was created to have a relationship with God and with other humans, which is why God made Adam first and had a relationship with him, and then He made Eve so Adam could have a relationship with her and her having a relationship with God as well. God didn't make us a drones who can't help but choose what is right, if He did that we couldn't posses love and have relationships. However, with free will there is the choice to rebel and do what is wrong. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, He knew they would eat the fruit, but He didn't cause it. God knew mankind would sin from the beginning, and He also prepared a way to bridge the gap after we sinned through Jesus. In God's plan He knew Satan would rebel by his will, and He knew that Satan would temp Adam and Eve and that they would choose to sin. Yet God also knew that He would send Himself to pay the penalty for sin and bridge the gap. Even after humanity sinned God promised that He would bring a savior to reconcile the world from sin and redeem us from death. God knew we would fail, and because He knew that He also knew that He would have to save us through Jesus. But regardless, who are we to understand the full mind of God? God is superior on every level, and we are not created with a mind that can comprehend his logic, power, and wisdom. We can speculate and make opinions, but we won't be able to understand because our understanding is limited and our logic/reasoning comes from a sinful nature. God is Perfect, we are not. But in God's Perfection He already planned a way to bring us back to him :)


If "god" gave us free will but knowing that in the future, we'll fall into sin (and like you've said, is part of "god's" plan) means that we humans are not fully responsible for our actions. If so, then why are we so brutally punished?! It's like, god gave us the opportunity to sin. If "god" didn't create that tree, Adam and Eve will not sin in the first place, actually if "god" didn't made Lucifer, there will be no Satan to tempt Eve. If "god" already knew that we'll sin, why didn't he prevent it? Oh yeah he doesn't really care that because of our sins we'll suffer eternal damnation and suffering and yet in the end he have another plan to bring us back to him, how convenient for him. He'll put us through a lot of troubles and suffering so in the end we'll come back to him, this "god" is really bitchy. If "god" is our father, he really doesn't know how to take care of his children. Even parents will try to raise their children as safe as possible and anticipating what their children will do in the future.

About the lack of understanding etc, kings, queens and the clergy of the middle ages said that, that they were either "god's" children or they were chosen by "god" and only they can understand the true wisdom of "god", therefore, they have the right to rule their subjects and whatever they say is the law, how convenient for them. If "god" was so perfect, why does he need our money when we go to church? He created everything, right? But he needs more money just to spread his good words. Hmmm I think it's a good idea to make my own church right now, so easy to fool people with vague promises and salvation from "god" while having lots of money.


God's plan was to have relationship with us, but He knew we would fail so He made a plan to redeem us through Christ. God might know our choices, but He doesn't force them upon us. We take sole responsibility for our actions, God never tempts us to sin. Even in the Bible it says that When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; James 1:13 God gave Adam and Eve the choice to either sin or not by eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God never made them eat it, in fact He discouraged it from the beginning. Just because God knew what they would do does not mean that He is responsible for their actions. And if God were to step in and stop them He would be taking away their free will. Through the command of not eating the fruit from that tree, God gave Adam and Eve a choice, to either love Him or choose to disobey. It all revolves around free will, and knowing all things and what we will choose doesn't mean God caused it. If anything, it shows more about free will, in that even though God knows what we will choose He doesn't force His Will upon us and allows us to make those choices.

God doesn't want us to suffer in hell. He went through hell on earth to prevent that through Christ. He took the guilt and punishment for our sins, He died the death we deserve, yet He being fully God and fully man was without sin and lived a perfect life. Perfection has no punishment, yet God through Christ Himself took the punishment and paid for our sins. Because God is Holy there must be judgment. God is perfect, and if He was not perfect there would be no judgment or penalty for sin. God wants no one to go to hell, and the Bible says this here 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. God even tells those who have repented to show love and be a testimony of Christ so that others may see it and be saved (not force others). Hell exists, and people are judged and do go there, but in God's Love and desire to see no one there He sent Himself to die and suffer for all, He tells His children who have been saved by Himself through Christ to love those who haven't and be a testimony of God's Love, and the Holy Spirit convicts the heart of every man to come to repentance. God is lovingly trying to save us from our sins and our choice to go to hell, but because He has given us free will He doesn't force that desire upon us.

And kings and queens can proclaim that God did X or they are X, but it doesn't mean their words are true. We can all come to an understanding of God, and those who have a greater understanding can teach, but it doesn't mean they are the only ones and can be the only ones with understanding. People can claim a divine right to rule, but they also may lie about it (which they did in the middle ages). Corruption in the church and government doesn't reflect what the Bible teaches, those people sinned in doing things like that, so it doesn't really apply. Corrupt churches and ancient governments used Christianity for human gain, what they did is not Christianity and is a sin by the very Words they choose to try and manipulate.
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Posted 6/14/09



God's plan was to have relationship with us, but He knew we would fail so He made a plan to redeem us through Christ. God might know our choices, but He doesn't force them upon us. We take sole responsibility for our actions, God never tempts us to sin.


Ok, so "god" is like this parent that leaves a loaded gun on a table and let his children play around it and asked them not to touch the gun while knowing full well that his children will eventually play with it. Wow, just wow. Btw, anything written in the Bible is not factual. You'll never know, maybe the Bible was their Harry Potter or Twilight back then. I don't know why this "god" is the "god" of all nations while his history is isolated to the hebrews (he's known more as the "god" of the hebrews or "god" of Abraham) and only sent a savior to them, I wonder why.... maybe he's lazy :-p


God doesn't want us to suffer in hell. He went through hell on earth to prevent that through Christ. He took the guilt and punishment for our sins, He died the death we deserve, yet He being fully God and fully man was without sin and lived a perfect life.


With what you've said you gave me the idea that people blame themselves too much. People are only afraid of sin not because it's bad but because of the punishment. If a sin goes unpunished, it will continually be committed. What religion or the Bible taught us is that every sin has a punishment which is not true in real life. People everyday commit sins and go unpunished. Some love to blame themselves then say that some savior saved them to have this false sense of security, but at the end of the day, human nature always prevails.

Btw, you forgot about the money thing the churches always ask for just to spread the word of "god". If "god" is this all powerful one, he should just show himself or send many Jesus Christs to every part of the world to preach his words. But still, paganism and other religions persists to this day, what does this mean? If you would study the history of religion, the religion of the Hebrews were not the first religion made, I wonder why....


And kings and queens can proclaim that God did X or they are X, but it doesn't mean their words are true. We can all come to an understanding of God, and those who have a greater understanding can teach, but it doesn't mean they are the only ones and can be the only ones with understanding.


So in short, no one can be sure if one's understanding of "god's" words are correct or not. How can you make sure that a person really have a greater understanding of "god"? That's why even with Christianity alone, there are lots of differing interpretations of the bible by just saying that this pastor or teacher knows better than the other etc. This "god" was so vague that he didn't foreseen the dangers of misinterpreting his words.


Corrupt churches and ancient governments used Christianity for human gain, what they did is not Christianity and is a sin by the very Words they choose to try and manipulate.


Then where is your "god" now? Where is that divine intervention? Till this day religions are used for human gain. I think if ever "god" is really true, he doesn't give a damn about us, maybe whatever we knew about him is wrong. Maybe he's not this punisher/rewarder/parent thing. Maybe this Jesus Christ is some character taken from a book. Even Hebrews/Jews themselves doesn't believe in Jesus Christ.

If all the people of this world died off, will anyone be left to worship "god"? Animals don't worship "god" even though they're his creations.
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Posted 6/16/09
Funny this subject. You are saying prayer has no effect, but I see this as simply telling God to prove himself to you.

Your studies show little to nothing of prayer, was it a genuine prayer? Was it a prayer as a last resort? Who knows, but 'studies on prayer' which you have provided are simply redundant.

I, myself believe that prayer is a powerful thing. Though what can I say, you'll see this as useless religious blabber.

Each to their own, I say. But also, I don't see how you can categorize God as omniscient God, for if he can do anything, why can he not simply just listen to prayers and have effect but at the same time already have everything planned. Why does it need to make sense for you or make it logical for you to make it true?
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Posted 6/16/09
of course, this is atleast what people could do, if there would be no
such thing as praying, then a lot of people will really depend on God..
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Posted 6/16/09
You see, everyone has a "spiritual meter", kind of like the experience points bar in RPG's. Every time you pray, talk to God, meditate, go to the Church/Mosque/whatever, your spiritual meter goes up. It's like in Pokemon, if you get more experience points, your life gets better: you get stronger, learn new moves to fight atheists and gays. And eventually you evolve and turn divine, or reach nirvana, or something like that.
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