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Ive been a fan since 1989. I have some soundtracks on LP. I got DYRL on laser disk, VHS, Beta and of course DVD
20 years of being a fan and going strong
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I wrote on the wall earlier that I have mixed feelings over everyone's excitement over Macross Frontier. On one hand, I really welcome the exposure that Macross is recently getting, having your favourite anime be introduced to a whole new generation of viewers is a very exciting thing... Macross has always been a great series, and will continue to be relevant in the future. However, just looking at the wall on the Macross Group gives me a slightly unpleasant feeling for some reason. I just see a whole bunch of people who have no appreciation of the vast and deep history of the previous Macrosses, and are just watching in and cashing in on what is, essentially, an especially giant homage to the previous series. It's a slightly sinking feeling when that one thing that you felt was special is diluted and becomes "mainstream".

Incidentally conceptually Macross Frontier is brilliant: If you're a fan, you keep watching because you want to see what kind of reference or homage they make towards the previous series. If you're not, you watch because there's good music and nice explosions.

But I really hope that people can appreciate the huge backstory behind Macross by seeking out and watching the series, the OVAs, and the rest of the stuff. I know a person who got hooked onto Macross Frontier, but didn't want to watch SDF Macross because the visuals were "dated". What nonsense.

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Posted 7/2/08
visuals were "dated"
What kind of BS is that. The old school Macross is the best

And dont forget

" How can you go to war if your afraid of alochol "
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brennan wrote:

I wrote on the wall earlier that I have mixed feelings over everyone's excitement over Macross Frontier. On one hand, I really welcome the exposure that Macross is recently getting, having your favourite anime be introduced to a whole new generation of viewers is a very exciting thing... Macross has always been a great series, and will continue to be relevant in the future. However, just looking at the wall on the Macross Group gives me a slightly unpleasant feeling for some reason. I just see a whole bunch of people who have no appreciation of the vast and deep history of the previous Macrosses, and are just watching in and cashing in on what is, essentially, an especially giant homage to the previous series. It's a slightly sinking feeling when that one thing that you felt was special is diluted and becomes "mainstream".

Incidentally conceptually Macross Frontier is brilliant: If you're a fan, you keep watching because you want to see what kind of reference or homage they make towards the previous series. If you're not, you watch because there's good music and nice explosions.

But I really hope that people can appreciate the huge backstory behind Macross by seeking out and watching the series, the OVAs, and the rest of the stuff. I know a person who got hooked onto Macross Frontier, but didn't want to watch SDF Macross because the visuals were "dated". What nonsense.



i couldnt agree more on what ur saying.

reality is, us "old-fashion/old school anime veiwers" are probably the only types that actually will put an considerate time in watching old anime series compare to the typical anime veiwers today. todays generation of kids think their the anime king of sum shit, but in reality they dont know JACK SHIT about anime. just like u said ppl wont watch older anime JUST BECAUSE there "old tech" or just too ugly to watch. today typical anime veiwer only think about a few things when it comes to watching anime; "Does the artistic style look appealing?", "Is the action packed scenes flashy?", etc... its pretty much the same lame crap re-used over and over and over again ...

I have to admit that I use to be like this too ... I remember watching Gundam Seed and i thought it was the crazyiest shit there is ( Seed was good, but when Destiny came out i didnt like it so much. in fact, i fucking loathed Destiny). I was even ignorant to say it was the BEST Gundam series of all time (i only watched Wing and Seed/Destiny during at that time). I didnt understand why there were sum ppl out there that didnt agree with me . Later i me sum guy told me to start watching the older series, so i did. it took me about 2 weeks to download Mobile Suit GUNDAM (original), then i started to watch it. At first i wasn't so pleased with the old crappy graphics, but that slowly didnt matter nemore. as i kept watching MS Gundam, i started to realize that it was a REALLY good anime. The way the show protrayed those robots made them move and function so realistically. From then on i started watching old anime shows .

There are ppl out there that are willing to change their ways. The problem is, most of them are probably too lazy to do it.
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Posted 7/2/08

andydono wrote:


brennan wrote:

I wrote on the wall earlier that I have mixed feelings over everyone's excitement over Macross Frontier. On one hand, I really welcome the exposure that Macross is recently getting, having your favourite anime be introduced to a whole new generation of viewers is a very exciting thing... Macross has always been a great series, and will continue to be relevant in the future. However, just looking at the wall on the Macross Group gives me a slightly unpleasant feeling for some reason. I just see a whole bunch of people who have no appreciation of the vast and deep history of the previous Macrosses, and are just watching in and cashing in on what is, essentially, an especially giant homage to the previous series. It's a slightly sinking feeling when that one thing that you felt was special is diluted and becomes "mainstream".

Incidentally conceptually Macross Frontier is brilliant: If you're a fan, you keep watching because you want to see what kind of reference or homage they make towards the previous series. If you're not, you watch because there's good music and nice explosions.

But I really hope that people can appreciate the huge backstory behind Macross by seeking out and watching the series, the OVAs, and the rest of the stuff. I know a person who got hooked onto Macross Frontier, but didn't want to watch SDF Macross because the visuals were "dated". What nonsense.



i couldnt agree more on what ur saying.

reality is, us "old-fashion/old school anime veiwers" are probably the only types that actually will put an considerate time in watching old anime series compare to the typical anime veiwers today. todays generation of kids think their the anime king of sum shit, but in reality they dont know JACK SHIT about anime. just like u said ppl wont watch older anime JUST BECAUSE there "old tech" or just too ugly to watch. today typical anime veiwer only think about a few things when it comes to watching anime; "Does the artistic style look appealing?", "Is the action packed scenes flashy?", etc... its pretty much the same lame crap re-used over and over and over again ...

I have to admit that I use to be like this too ... I remember watching Gundam Seed and i thought it was the crazyiest shit there is ( Seed was good, but when Destiny came out i didnt like it so much. in fact, i fucking loathed Destiny). I was even ignorant to say it was the BEST Gundam series of all time (i only watched Wing and Seed/Destiny during at that time). I didnt understand why there were sum ppl out there that didnt agree with me . Later i me sum guy told me to start watching the older series, so i did. it took me about 2 weeks to download Mobile Suit GUNDAM (original), then i started to watch it. At first i wasn't so pleased with the old crappy graphics, but that slowly didnt matter nemore. as i kept watching MS Gundam, i started to realize that it was a REALLY good anime. The way the show protrayed those robots made them move and function so realistically. From then on i started watching old anime shows .

There are ppl out there that are willing to change their ways. The problem is, most of them are probably too lazy to do it.


*glances around*

psst.

This is a Macross thread...

But MS Gundam 0079 is pretty awesome :3

Let's not forget that 0079 was pretty damn uncensored for it's time. In the first episode the Zakus kill innocent civillians and in the opening sequence Operation British was shown. That shit doesn't get shown anymore after the wake of 9/11. More than anything MS Gundam is a pretty good war epic, that feels both heroic and epic at the same time (best in my books goes to Legend of the Galactic Heroes).
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Posted 7/3/08

brennan wrote:

*glances around*

psst.

This is a Macross thread...

But MS Gundam 0079 is pretty awesome :3

Let's not forget that 0079 was pretty damn uncensored for it's time. In the first episode the Zakus kill innocent civillians and in the opening sequence Operation British was shown. That shit doesn't get shown anymore after the wake of 9/11. More than anything MS Gundam is a pretty good war epic, that feels both heroic and epic at the same time (best in my books goes to Legend of the Galactic Heroes).


i'm just using my Mobile Suit Gundam as an example of typical arognant anime veiwer. lol
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Posted 7/5/08
I like how Frontier has the feel of S.D.F. Macross, but I know that it is mainly due to the homages to the previous series. Here we have a triangle similar to the original series, but totally different in its own respects. But at the same time there is something epic in the backdrop that is brings it more into contrast. On some of the other sites and boards, I have read some of the comments on episode 12 of Frontier and some people just can't understand one girl can bring a group of giants to their knees. Even after what we've seen happen in 13. I still think Frontier will get close to the level SDF and DYRL are in terms of story
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pretty much everything ive read points toward the legal battle in japan about who owns what and how much do they get. Harmony gold dosen't have a whole lot to do with it. but if bandai makes a really big push they could aquire the licences . it wouldn't suprise me they 've been getting everything else lately. just watch once gundam 00 does its run on the sci fi channel. and depending on the numbers magically the legal battle is over and done with.
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Posted 7/6/08 , edited 7/7/08

Beyond-the-Grave wrote:

pretty much everything ive read points toward the legal battle in japan about who owns what and how much do they get. Harmony gold dosen't have a whole lot to do with it. but if bandai makes a really big push they could aquire the licences . it wouldn't suprise me they 've been getting everything else lately. just watch once gundam 00 does its run on the sci fi channel. and depending on the numbers magically the legal battle is over and done with.


Well, it's true that Bandai USA could possibly get the licenses to air Macross Frontier, but there is still the threat of still engaging in potentially costly litigation to defend HG's interests. After all, HG is about or in the process of launching it's new Robotech feature, and confusion between the two may not be in it's best interests.

And you're wrong there. Harmony Gold has a _lot_ to do with it. It's status is not just as a licensee. Prior to the recent court decision, which is only binding in Japan so far, Harmony Gold was treated as if it owned Macross because it had done so much work on the series as well as trademarked the name Macross. This was the primary fear of people bringing any Macross merchandise over because they might have faced litigation over copyright infringement problems.

I also don't see what Gundam 00 has to do with Macross. Gundam 00 is one thing and it's success on the mainstream media doesn't magically give Bandai USA a ticket to acquire Macross Frontier. The legal dispute will still exist and it will continue to haunt Macross Frontier until the original parties get their act together and figure this shit out.

The legal battle is a long and really confusing one, but for everyone else here, here's a brief highlight of the events that have happened.

1. Studio Nue and Big West were working on SDF Macross
2. Due to certain circumstances they couldn't complete the anime on their own.
3. They got Tatsunoko Productions to work on a substantial part of the anime
4. They gave Tatsunoko Productions the right to market and distribute the anime internationally, as well as co-ownership. I think.
5. Tatsunoko Productions produces Southern Cross and Mospeada based on Macross - they do have some rights to do - or at least, it's thought that they did. Either way this is not contested.
6. Tatsunoko Productions sells part of their license for Macross to Harmony Gold. Exactly what is sold is up for debate.
7. Harmony Gold thinks that SDF Macross is too short for American Syndication. It buys the license to Southern Cross and Mospeda and creates the Robotech Series spanning 3 generations. The plots of all three series are significantly altered, although SDF Macross saw the least alterations.
8. Robotech is distributed internationally while Macross sits quietly in Japan. Macross DYRL and Macross II were produced but did not see much action outside Japan.
9. FASA, producer of Battletech, starts using some Macross designs in their Mechwarrior / Battletech series. HG claims copyright infringement and the case is settled out of court.
10. Macross DYRL is brought to America. Due to HG initiating some legal dispute it's title is changed to Clash of the Bioroids and the script is significantly altered.
11. Macross Plus is brought to America. HG ignores it for some reason.
12. Everyone ignores Macross 7.
13. HG perks up and attempts to revive the Robotech series due to the increasing popularity of anime. Robotech having significantly deviated from Macross is now it's own story separate from Macross. HG having worked extensively on the series claims that it has it's own creative rights to Robotech. HG also attempts to trademark the word Macross and attempts to claim all rights on Macross related Media.
14. Macross Zero is in the process to be brought to America, and HG attempts to block it. (It has Roy Fokker after all)
15. Legal confusion.
16. More legal confusion. The potential licensee (Pioneer LDC, probably) drops the idea of getting Macross Zero into America.
17. Studio Nue and Big West figure that someone has to stop moseying around and figure out what's going on. They take Tatsunoko to Court.
18. Court decides that Tatsunoko owns SDF Macross, but Studio Nue and Big West owns the francising rights, characters, designs, and the like.
19. HG is keeping quiet about this, but still claims that it has creative rights over the Robotech franchise. They allow for ADV to release SDF Macross in it's unaltered form.
20. Macross Frontier is released in Japan. No news about if it's going to be brought over.

What does this all mean? Why is HG blocking Macross?
HG is blocking or was blocking Macross because it feels as if it has creative rights over its flagship product which was derived from Macross, which is Robotech. Essentially they've done so many alterations to not only it's plot but some limited alterations to animation (I hear that they removed a second moon in all shots of Southern Cross), that they feel that they have rights over to it. In such a case it's actually for their best interest to eliminate all competiton which may confuse their series with others. In this case it's Macross. Which is ironic.

Now I'm not defending HG, but they are not completely at fault. For one, I think they did a terrific job with the first season of Macross, and it's admirable that they managed to take three different animes and string together a plot to link them all up. Not only that, but Macross had remained quite quiet in Japan for a while and it was only after Macross Zero was released when all these legal confusions and technicalities all got raised. HG probably never considered that Macross would once again be so popular in the future - it was probably thinking that it was a one-off thing.

Furthermore, HG probably also thought that it had rights to Macross because it did buy some of those rights and shared it with Tatsunoko, who did the bulk of the original animation for SDF Macross. That's why the court decision was necessary. If the Japanese Courts came down on the side of Tatsunoko then HG probably had the right or would have the right to block any further Macrosses into the country, because that would mean that Tatsunoko had given HG exclusive rights to the international distribution of Macross. But this isn't the case. The court decision also one-upped HG, essentially telling Tatsunoko (and HG) that their rights were limited to the first season of Macross, what HG calls the "Macross Saga".

All this has happened in Japan. But the nature of copyright and intellectual property rights is highly defined by geopolitical boundaries (discussed in my licensing article on wikiroll: http://wiki.crunchyroll.com/licensing), and that particular decision is only binding in Japan so far. It sets a good precedent, true, but that means that if the series is brought to America, HG can potentially start a legal dispute to slow it down - it'll probably lose due to the court finding, but it's still a pretty big fight that could end up costing a lot of money.

Until the matter is settled between all the original parties, I actually dont' see Macross Frontier being brought over to America or anywhere else in particular anytime soon.
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Posted 7/7/08
no! keep macross in Japan... makes it much more special... XD
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Having Macross here in the west would be nice. Although the existence of the Robotech franchise had it's perks--I liked the whole novelization of Robotech--It was a good read from the late " Jack McKinney".

Other than that, the Robotech franchise just brings a lot of confusion to new Macross fans (and sometimes old Macross fans). Just consider Robotech as an alternate universe to Macross--as done by many.

As far as the Legal battle between Big West/Bandai and Harmony Gold/Tatsunoko....well if the legal battle lasted in-excess of 20 years to date, I don't see a settlement anywhere near the horizon just yet. To find Macross Frontier in the western hemisphere is bleak at the moment but at least fans have a form of "exclusivity" at the very least.
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Posted 7/7/08

brennan wrote:


Beyond-the-Grave wrote:

pretty much everything ive read points toward the legal battle in japan about who owns what and how much do they get. Harmony gold dosen't have a whole lot to do with it. but if bandai makes a really big push they could aquire the licences . it wouldn't suprise me they 've been getting everything else lately. just watch once gundam 00 does its run on the sci fi channel. and depending on the numbers magically the legal battle is over and done with.


Well, it's true that Bandai USA could possibly get the licenses to air Macross Frontier, but there is still the threat of still engaging in potentially costly litigation to defend HG's interests. After all, HG is about or in the process of launching it's new Robotech feature, and confusion between the two may not be in it's best interests.

And you're wrong there. Harmony Gold has a _lot_ to do with it. It's status is not just as a licensee. Prior to the recent court decision, which is only binding in Japan so far, Harmony Gold was treated as if it owned Macross because it had done so much work on the series as well as trademarked the name Macross. This was the primary fear of people bringing any Macross merchandise over because they might have faced litigation over copyright infringement problems.

I also don't see what Gundam 00 has to do with Macross. Gundam 00 is one thing and it's success on the mainstream media doesn't magically give Bandai USA a ticket to acquire Macross Frontier. The legal dispute will still exist and it will continue to haunt Macross Frontier until the original parties get their act together and figure this shit out.

The legal battle is a long and really confusing one, but for everyone else here, here's a brief highlight of the events that have happened.

1. Studio Nue and Big West were working on SDF Macross
2. Due to certain circumstances they couldn't complete the anime on their own.
3. They got Tatsunoko Productions to work on a substantial part of the anime
4. They gave Tatsunoko Productions the right to market and distribute the anime internationally, as well as co-ownership. I think.
5. Tatsunoko Productions produces Southern Cross and Mospeada based on Macross - they do have some rights to do - or at least, it's thought that they did. Either way this is not contested.
6. Tatsunoko Productions sells part of their license for Macross to Harmony Gold. Exactly what is sold is up for debate.
7. Harmony Gold thinks that SDF Macross is too short for American Syndication. It buys the license to Southern Cross and Mospeda and creates the Robotech Series spanning 3 generations. The plots of all three series are significantly altered, although SDF Macross saw the least alterations.
8. Robotech is distributed internationally while Macross sits quietly in Japan. Macross DYRL and Macross II were produced but did not see much action outside Japan.
9. FASA, producer of Battletech, starts using some Macross designs in their Mechwarrior / Battletech series. HG claims copyright infringement and the case is settled out of court.
10. Macross DYRL is brought to America. Due to HG initiating some legal dispute it's title is changed to Clash of the Bioroids and the script is significantly altered.
11. Macross Plus is brought to America. HG ignores it for some reason.
12. Everyone ignores Macross 7.
13. HG perks up and attempts to revive the Robotech series due to the increasing popularity of anime. Robotech having significantly deviated from Macross is now it's own story separate from Macross. HG having worked extensively on the series claims that it has it's own creative rights to Robotech. HG also attempts to trademark the word Macross and attempts to claim all rights on Macross related Media.
14. Macross Zero is in the process to be brought to America, and HG attempts to block it. (It has Roy Fokker after all)
15. Legal confusion.
16. More legal confusion. The potential licensee (Pioneer LDC, probably) drops the idea of getting Macross Zero into America.
17. Studio Nue and Big West figure that someone has to stop moseying around and figure out what's going on. They take Tatsunoko to Court.
18. Court decides that Tatsunoko owns SDF Macross, but Studio Nue and Big West owns the francising rights, characters, designs, and the like.
19. HG is keeping quiet about this, but still claims that it has creative rights over the Robotech franchise. They allow for ADV to release SDF Macross in it's unaltered form.
20. Macross Frontier is released in Japan. No news about if it's going to be brought over.

What does this all mean? Why is HG blocking Macross?
HG is blocking or was blocking Macross because it feels as if it has creative rights over its flagship product which was derived from Macross, which is Robotech. Essentially they've done so many alterations to not only it's plot but some limited alterations to animation (I hear that they removed a second moon in all shots of Southern Cross), that they feel that they have rights over to it. In such a case it's actually for their best interest to eliminate all competiton which may confuse their series with others. In this case it's Macross. Which is ironic.

Now I'm not defending HG, but they are not completely at fault. For one, I think they did a terrific job with the first season of Macross, and it's admirable that they managed to take three different animes and string together a plot to link them all up. Not only that, but Macross had remained quite quiet in Japan for a while and it was only after Macross Zero was released when all these legal confusions and technicalities all got raised. HG probably never considered that Macross would once again be so popular in the future - it was probably thinking that it was a one-off thing.

Furthermore, HG probably also thought that it had rights to Macross because it did buy some of those rights and shared it with Tatsunoko, who did the bulk of the original animation for SDF Macross. That's why the court decision was necessary. If the Japanese Courts came down on the side of Tatsunoko then HG probably had the right or would have the right to block any further Macrosses into the country, because that would mean that Tatsunoko had given HG exclusive rights to the international distribution of Macross. But this isn't the case. The court decision also one-upped HG, essentially telling Tatsunoko (and HG) that their rights were limited to the first season of Macross, what HG calls the "Macross Saga".

All this has happened in Japan. But the nature of copyright and intellectual property rights is highly defined by geopolitical boundaries (discussed in my licensing article on wikiroll: http://wiki.crunchyroll.com/licensing), and that particular decision is only binding in Japan so far. It sets a good precedent, true, but that means that if the series is brought to America, HG can potentially start a legal dispute to slow it down - it'll probably lose due to the court finding, but it's still a pretty big fight that could end up costing a lot of money.

Until the matter is settled between all the original parties, I actually dont' see Macross Frontier being brought over to America or anywhere else in particular anytime soon.



pretty much if gundam does well on the sci fi channel then bandai won t really care about bringing something else over. it'll just get milked to death, just like the other series. but they could be holding it back just waiting for naruto to finish its run over here in the us.

hg made robotech over 65 episodes so that it could be ran on television. meaning for at least 5 days a week it could be ran without any real let up. also majority of cartoons in the 80's were toy commercials.

macross 7 is kind of annoying. having a hard time watching it.

anyway... i think hg made all the changes just so that they could avoid a long legal battle.

if enough money is thrown around in the right places then all the problems will just dissappear. for instance, macross plus was released and hg did nothing about it. how do u know they weren't paid off. then all of a sudden around the same time sdfm/ robotech hits it 20 + year anniversary new series are relased continuing each universes storyline.
ever wonder why adv is allowed to release sdfm on dvd, but tengen toppa gurren lagann is magically canceled and bandai hass the dvd rights to it?

and once again its all one big conspiracy!!!
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/7/08
Macross 7 is pretty annoying, but the story does pick up after about episode 20 or so. Well, that's my opinion.

The music however is top notch, imo.

And Macross Dynamite 7 probably captures the idea of Macross 7 the best of all. It was my favourite among the Macross 7 series.
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I'm definitely anything but a legal expert, but what I find interesting is the role of the internet in all of this. More and more people are able to bypass all the rights disputes and whatnot and watch stuff like Frontier online through fansub groups and sites like this. Clearly, the "fansub audience" has been increasing significantly in recent years, and clearly (from reading some of the posts on the CRSeries - Macross Frontier page) it's generating demand for airing Frontier on western TV. I think BW/HG/whoever else has some incentive to settle the issue sooner than later because of that - if they work out some sort of royalty or split profit deal between them, all parties involved stand to make a mint off of international broadcasting, because the demand obviously exists. If they don't, though, fans of the series will probably just continue to increasingly go to the internet for their source... and the companies don't get anything from that.
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Posted 7/8/08

frostynorth wrote:

I'm definitely anything but a legal expert, but what I find interesting is the role of the internet in all of this. More and more people are able to bypass all the rights disputes and whatnot and watch stuff like Frontier online through fansub groups and sites like this. Clearly, the "fansub audience" has been increasing significantly in recent years, and clearly (from reading some of the posts on the CRSeries - Macross Frontier page) it's generating demand for airing Frontier on western TV. I think BW/HG/whoever else has some incentive to settle the issue sooner than later because of that - if they work out some sort of royalty or split profit deal between them, all parties involved stand to make a mint off of international broadcasting, because the demand obviously exists. If they don't, though, fans of the series will probably just continue to increasingly go to the internet for their source... and the companies don't get anything from that.


Except get pissy and engage fansubbers in legal disputes themselves. Remember, fansubs are considered a form a piracy, and the recent action in Japan to shut down several p2p distribution networks severely affected fansubs a while back. Now BW has indeed the incentive to license it to an external licensee, but the issue at hand is that this affects HG's chances at reviving their Robotech franchise. That's why HG had been blocking it for a while now. Or at least attempted to. What we really need is someone with enough balls to either challenge HG on it, or for HG to come to their senses and renegotiate what they previously had (and thus perhaps obtaining the licensing rights to Frontier).

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