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Religion a cause for World ills?, or a spiritual refuge that ascertain existence
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Posted 10/31/08

ShroomInferno wrote:

^ and sin is caused by god's creation. how wonderful


Would you prefer to live in a world with suffering or a world where nobody suffered because nobody could think for themselves?
Posted 10/31/08
^in a world where nobody can think for themselves, means that i don't even know that i can't think for myself, so it wouldn't bother me at all. =p
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digs 
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Posted 10/31/08
Yes, sin was caused by God's creation, because God gave His creation free will to choose to do so We are not mindless and we can choose to sin, but with our mind and will, we can also choose to love God and be forgiven through Christ Jesus God didn't make us mindless, and my point is that any world disaster caused by man has a sinful root to it if you look deep enough.
Posted 10/31/08

digs wrote:

Yes, sin was caused by God's creation, because God gave His creation free will to choose to do so We are not mindless and we can choose to sin, but with our mind and will, we can also choose to love God and be forgiven through Christ Jesus God didn't make us mindless, and my point is that any world disaster caused by man has a sinful root to it if you look deep enough.


Does god punish and forgive everybody the same way?
How about the way he treats angels who misbehave? Loki? Luci? teh snake-kun?
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Posted 10/31/08
Yes, God judges each person according to their own actions, and He forgives all who repent before Jesus Christ.
When angels have sinned they become demons, there is no redemption or forgiveness for angels. This is because angels have been in the presence of God, and to be in the presence of God one must have been judged. Because they have already been with God, when they sin there is no redemption, they clearly made their choice.
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Posted 10/31/08
I believe in the doctrine of there a many paths to the same thing..........Religion is nothing but a philosophy that we humans created to understand our exsistence....I just believe we shouldn't just let ourselves be constrained by one certain religion, i studied a many religious texts and found a common ground among them all! Just simply believing in something a not questioning it is something I deeply dislike......I was once kicked out of my friends Bible study for asking " How can the Bible be divine if it was written and translated by sinners?" and " King James, why did he find want to translate the Bible?" There are so many loopholes in religion that I often get puzzled by, I just never take anything for face value......I think with an open mind and believe that there is something greater such as God, but I am not bogged down by fearing hell, because I have a strong personal moral code.

I think religion is more another way to induce "right" human behavior, like our laws have moral codes built into them to make sure we humans are controlled or act in a right and correct manner.

My question though is in any religion, there are rules, commandments, and codes one must follow to obtain a good standing with their higher power, why are we given choices, choice is the problem that we have that often leads us to going astray. So why have it?
Posted 10/31/08 , edited 10/31/08
what i don't understand is that such things as rights to discriminate is quite an often seen fact in religion, mainly because of society's moronic idea to give unadulterated and unquestioning respect to religion, so the hate-mongering of the religious is being freely tolerated while criticising religion is strongly disliked and looked upon as if it was a crime to question the existence of god, or the doctrine's rightfulness. what a nice double-standard.

only very few people dare to question the conflicts between religion and human rights today, and if they do they are said to be insulting someone's right to have a religion. some people would even go so far to disallow criticism against religion in general, expecting from us to honour religion with the same respect as its followers. whenever we try to question, or point out how very intriguing some issues are such as creationism, gay rights, or abortion; religious automatically come up with the argument that they have the right as a human being to have their religious harmony preserved, and thus demanding respect from non-adherents, i.e. not daring to question the religious doctrines.

of course, i do partly agree, everyone should have the right to devote his life to one's beliefs, as undoubtedly it is a fundamental human right to have the freedom of worship, of course, that's a fair argument, but this line of reasoning should not force us to give extravagant respect to some religious views.

despite their religion's message of love and patronage, archaic laws such as burying homosexuals alive, honour killings, marital abuse and female genital mutilation, etc. are respected/accepted by the religious. of course this is kind of generic, as there were also christians, too, who've been known to argue against female rights, gays, citing passages of the bible to support the enforcing of the subdued place of women in home and society.
that such archaic patriarchal-based sentiments can be still seen in our advanced world, is surely evidence of how much religion is being tolerated and unquestionably respected.

most of us shy away from questioning religions and religious beliefs because it is simply too much of a hassle. amusing is that religious people are never short of citing "hurt/offense" at criticism hurled at their religion, but often have no scruple about causing real damage and pain in form of words and, sadly, even actions, in other words, massively disrespecting the rights and liberties of other individuals.

allowing them to hold sway over policies and laws that discriminate others is unacceptable. here i am not trying to insult, this is just a simple form of realisation that religion and the religious are not that golden, saint as they present themselves.

other than that i find it rather troublesome that religion asserts itself as the unquestionable absolute truth, and doesn't tolerate any other form of thinking. demanding more blind respect than they deserve, even from those who don't share the same religion, if in any way religious at all.

spreading and evangelising, by any means, should not be allowed, as people should have the right to decide what they want to believe in without pressure from others.
only those who have the desire to keep it to themselves out of consideration for others, deserve my respect. sadly, only very few would meet those standards. ; /

while some moral values taught in the many holy books are universally accepted, not all of those views taught by religions are universally acceptable, or lawful. and that's where we should set a straight line, between the tolerable and non-tolerable.

other than that, referring to the absolute truth of a religion. it is a fact that many religions made/make various claims about this world that have been proved, later on, to be wrong. but since this claims are set under the category of religion, we are somewhat prohibited from questioning them with the same combativeness with which we'd be questioning other "truth" claims(for example questioning the truth that someone got abducted by aliens), and instead of that we are compelled to respect them, due to fear that we'd get accused of insulting someone's religion. being strongly discouraged from challenging beliefs, because if we'd do we'd get called "racist"(yeah, i know, ridiculous, but some of them really call you racist if you don't show any form of empathy for their belief), and if we dare then we would risk that some religious fundamentalists would take serious offence and make a fuss when their beliefs are challenged( for example the reaction that arouse after the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in Jyllands-Posten).

by all means, i do not say that we should completely abolish the idea of respect/existence for religion and the religious, but demanding to let religions reside on an elevated pedestal, shielded from criticism and arguments that we'd be vigorously applying to any other form of truth claims, is simply asking too much, as i don't see where you'd be deserving to get such special rights, those still existing special rights for the religions and religious are simply not defeated because the mere possibility that some religious zealots might take serious offence by it, and due to that would thanks to blind rage make a serious ruckus and endanger other people's life, generally sets people in fear. there is nothing more annoying and endangering than the vengeful spirit of a fundamentalist.

ps: i don't know why i posted this in the islam thread, this thread seems to be more suited for my post, so =S

moved~
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Posted 11/1/08
if they start blaming religion for world ills,i guess the world is going to hell in a handbasket.i wonder how they came to that conclusion..as far as i know all the religion out there preach in one way or another about good attributes.i havent come across any that promotes anarchy.these guys should start blaming themselves..
Posted 1/23/09

TUPAC115 wrote:

if they start blaming religion for world ills,i guess the world is going to hell in a handbasket.i wonder how they came to that conclusion..as far as i know all the religion out there preach in one way or another about good attributes.i havent come across any that promotes anarchy.these guys should start blaming themselves..


right. what about the middle age? where the christians burnt everything that was conforming to their little "holy" book?
what about the muslims who kill people daily in the name of their religion. the so-called holy war. funny.
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Posted 1/24/09 , edited 1/24/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

right. what about the middle age? where the christians burnt everything that was conforming to their little "holy" book?
what about the muslims who kill people daily in the name of their religion. the so-called holy war. funny.


The religion itself is not teaching them to do that, it is there own ignorance and twisted perception of their religion that causes them to do it. The few parts of certain religions (Christianity) that do promote that kind of behavior are not the main focus of it's teachings, and were most likely written in long after the original text by religious officials as a way to control people to suit their own needs. It is the individual's choice whether to follow the part that tells them to look down upon or harm others, or to follow the part that says to tolerate everyone and be the best person that you can be. Religion doesn't start wars or hurt people; ignorance, selfishness, stupidity, mental instability, or any combination of those does.
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Posted 1/24/09
Pretty much all religion sucks ass. There's been too many wars (and still is) because of it, and i seriously can't see a single little benefit with it either. Why should we follow books that are thousands of years old in these times? It's not just the extremists that's the problem, there's tons of hindus that don't believe in healthcare because of their religion. The kids that are born with four arms or two heads are being greeted as gods, and receive no help for their condition whatsoever, causing them to die at a young age.

And to all people saying that we cant blame war on religion.
Not all wars can but all too many can.
Sure it's true that sometimes it's a pure scapegoat to hide the real reason behind the war.
But! What if they didn't have that scapegoat? What if they suddenly couldn't unite their people by saying:
"Deus le volt!" (God Wants it). Theres a chance of course that they could just brainwahs their people in some other way but...

Religion is intolerance, and to all that say different...

According to a Time/CNN poll from 2002, 59 percent of Americans believe the events in the
book of Revelation will take place.

Whats in that thing then? The rapture is in there, meaning that 59 percent of the americans think that all non-christians will be left behind to burn and live through torture on the earth while they themself are up in heaven laughing their asses off.

THATS BEING TOLERANT?!

And don't say extremist again cause first of all i said 59%.
Second of all Religion is a safe place for these extremist. Why? Cause we allow it to be so.
We can't just take these extremist down because they're most likley protected by your country's
freedom of religion, it's legal too do a lot of stuff as long as you do it in the name of religion.
Like revoking the right to freedom of speech: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy

We don't really need these things that was mostly made up to stop the people to rise up in arms against their own in the old ages. If you really wanna be religous however, make up your own religion. You could probaly make a better one between commercials. One that is actually adapted to our time, and doesn't require us to overlook some parts like... well heres a bunch any ways: http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm.
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Posted 1/24/09 , edited 1/24/09
religion is simply misused by a lot of people.. but it is not to blame..more likely people are to blame for their being selfish and lack of love...
Posted 1/24/09
I'm not quite sure why people seem to lack the knowledge about those holy scripts. There are quite some very intriguing verses in it that shouldn't be ignored and also, even if they were added later on, shouldn't be underestimated when a monotheist starts to spread its evils around the globe.

Even if 99% of the book propagates love and compassion, 1% is enough to nullify all of those lovely godly and peaceful verses.
Posted 1/24/09
Religion is mainly a tool for those in power to please there greedy corporate masters, and lame ass war profiteers.
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Posted 1/24/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


TUPAC115 wrote:

if they start blaming religion for world ills,i guess the world is going to hell in a handbasket.i wonder how they came to that conclusion..as far as i know all the religion out there preach in one way or another about good attributes.i havent come across any that promotes anarchy.these guys should start blaming themselves..


right. what about the middle age? where the christians burnt everything that was conforming to their little "holy" book?
what about the muslims who kill people daily in the name of their religion. the so-called holy war. funny.


Good point there,but aint it just all excuses?just blaming religion for everything,its just a form of self-gratification.it does not matter if they are extremist or whatever,to find justification in what they doing in whatever they are doing,be it mass murder or arsony.it just plain simpler to turn to something in which a number of people already believe in.there is a higher chance that people might actually believe you.picture this,the muslims who claim jihad,they might be just extracting revenge on the U.S for bombing their cities.but if they go out and say its for revenge,in all seriousness,who gonna support them?maybe within their own country,but what if u have something thats world wide?something millions of people around the world already believe in.claim jihad and their reach is longer.maybe some extremist muslim in some other country might actually believe the stuff they say.better to have ur hand in a lot of cookie jars rather than just one.

simply put,its like a gun,it can be used as a tool for protecting yourself,a deterrent from harm or it can be used to kill.when it come a time to use it.its you who pulls the trigger.when when you do,can you go out and say,"its the gun that told me to fire?"well yes you can say that but wouldnt that be a load of crap?wouldnt it sound like just an excuse?

thats why i said people should just blame themselves.i am not a big fan of religion but even to me blaming religion sounds like bull to me.an excuse.similar to saying "blame my parents for the reason i was born"
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