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Religion a cause for World ills?, or a spiritual refuge that ascertain existence
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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

digs wrote:

Allhailodin wrote:

That means nothing. Nothing at all. Your god could totally be a sadist, and is simply lying to you, besides the words of the bible can't possibly come from your god, a human wrote them, not to mention based on its past actions it solution to most problems is to kill the problem in a horrible manner. So why would it simply kill instead of trying to find a peacefsul solution ? Because its far easier perhaps ? then your god is lazy, because it gets off on it ? then your god is sadastic. If your god was truly about peace and love, then it would try to find a peaceful and positive solution to problems instead of simply killing and slaughtering everyone. Plus how many people has your god MADE suffer on purpose ? Lots, it's caused famine, droughts, ect, all of those make people suffer, so a "peaceful and loving and caring god" wouldn't do stuff like that, now would it ? So the logical conclusion to come to is your god enjoys doing messed up shit to people and enjoys killing things. Which it obviously does.


It means everything, it's God laying out how He feels about sin and death. The Words of the Bible do come from God and are compiled by those He has directed to write. The Bible is Holy Spirit inspired. If you are going to judge God as a sadist based on what is in a few passages of the Bible, then you should also weigh in all the other verses as well in your judgment.

God is not lazy, He did offer a peaceful and free solution by sacrificing all He had through Jesus. All we have to do is repent of our sins in Jesus Name and we are forgiven. God does offer peaceful solutions, but He also punishes sin. God is slow to anger and offers many chances to repent of the sins that are destroying us and this world. Eventually those sins get punished, and we act like deer in the headlights and blame our problems on the One who is trying to stop them. If there was no sin then there would be no need for solutions to problems because sin is the cause of all "problems." God enacted those punishments so that people would turn from sin, and when they wouldn't they were judged. A sadistic God does not degrade Himself to human form, live among humans, get mocked, beaten, insulted, crucified, and rejected by the very creatures He is Loving with all His Heart and trying to save from their own ignorance and wickedness. God is Love, and He Loves the world enough to punish sin and get us to turn to the way that will lead us to eternal life and peace. Not to mention peace on earth as well if we were to only turn to Him.


Nah, it means absolutely nothing, your god is a sadist, but there's nothing wrong with being a sadist, so it doesn't matter either way.

Peace on earth will never happen, there is nothing your god could do about that, killing and war is human nature, has been for a long time, so as long as humankind exists, murder, war, slaughter, torture and so on will exist, that is never going to go away. Deny it all you want but its true, even if everyone sought out your god and became christian war, murder, torture would all still exist, nothing not even your gods could change that. But it really doesn't matter anyway, if there were true peace on earth, earth would be utterly boring all the time, which would be no fun, it would suck. But we don't have to worry about that happening.
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Allhailodin wrote:

That means nothing. Nothing at all. Your god could totally be a sadist, and is simply lying to you, besides the words of the bible can't possibly come from your god, a human wrote them, not to mention based on its past actions it solution to most problems is to kill the problem in a horrible manner. So why would it simply kill instead of trying to find a peacefsul solution ? Because its far easier perhaps ? then your god is lazy, because it gets off on it ? then your god is sadastic. If your god was truly about peace and love, then it would try to find a peaceful and positive solution to problems instead of simply killing and slaughtering everyone. Plus how many people has your god MADE suffer on purpose ? Lots, it's caused famine, droughts, ect, all of those make people suffer, so a "peaceful and loving and caring god" wouldn't do stuff like that, now would it ? So the logical conclusion to come to is your god enjoys doing messed up shit to people and enjoys killing things. Which it obviously does.


It means everything, it's God laying out how He feels about sin and death. The Words of the Bible do come from God and are compiled by those He has directed to write. The Bible is Holy Spirit inspired. If you are going to judge God as a sadist based on what is in a few passages of the Bible, then you should also weigh in all the other verses as well in your judgment.

God is not lazy, He did offer a peaceful and free solution by sacrificing all He had through Jesus. All we have to do is repent of our sins in Jesus Name and we are forgiven. God does offer peaceful solutions, but He also punishes sin. God is slow to anger and offers many chances to repent of the sins that are destroying us and this world. Eventually those sins get punished, and we act like deer in the headlights and blame our problems on the One who is trying to stop them. If there was no sin then there would be no need for solutions to problems because sin is the cause of all "problems." God enacted those punishments so that people would turn from sin, and when they wouldn't they were judged. A sadistic God does not degrade Himself to human form, live among humans, get mocked, beaten, insulted, crucified, and rejected by the very creatures He is Loving with all His Heart and trying to save from their own ignorance and wickedness. God is Love, and He Loves the world enough to punish sin and get us to turn to the way that will lead us to eternal life and peace. Not to mention peace on earth as well if we were to only turn to Him.


Nah, it means absolutely nothing, your god is a sadist, but there's nothing wrong with being a sadist, so it doesn't matter either way.

Peace on earth will never happen, there is nothing your god could do about that, killing and war is human nature, has been for a long time, so as long as humankind exists, murder, war, slaughter, torture and so on will exist, that is never going to go away. Deny it all you want but its true, even if everyone sought out your god and became christian war, murder, torture would all still exist, nothing not even your gods could change that. But it really doesn't matter anyway, if there were true peace on earth, earth would be utterly boring all the time, which would be no fun, it would suck. But we don't have to worry about that happening.


God is not a sadist and I have given proof of that from scripture. Again, why do you call him a sadist based on punishments for sin when we are the one's committing the crime? Also, if you base your argument from scripture why do you only hold to narrow passages taken out of context? I don't mean to be disrespectful.

And I agree with you, peace on earth will never happen. God will bring about peace on earth after He judges this world and creates the New Heaven and New Earth, but not in this current state will we see peace because the world is tainted by sin.
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:
And we also have religious people who are against all of that. So you can't the religion as much as the people.


Yeah, but religion isn't totally innocent here, millions of people have been killed due to differences in religion, people have used religion as a tool to make soldiers, people have used religion as an excuse to slaughter people, religion isn't innocent, religion is a cause for some of the worlds problems, has been for a long time now, so you can't say religion is innocent at all.

Well, actually I can say that religion is innocent. I don’t think that religion in and of itself is dangerous. It’s organized political religion that you have to look out for. That’s also true, however, of organized political atheism. Look at the Christians in North Korea literally being crucified simply because their theological views. Look at the French revolution. Wars have been started under all forms of justification, but the fuel for this fire was never the religion itself. It was the politics. Very few things in history have been done for anything other than money. Religion has certainly been a tool, but given the nature of mankind do we honestly believe that in the absence of religion we’re not creative enough to create another excuse?
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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Allhailodin wrote:

That means nothing. Nothing at all. Your god could totally be a sadist, and is simply lying to you, besides the words of the bible can't possibly come from your god, a human wrote them, not to mention based on its past actions it solution to most problems is to kill the problem in a horrible manner. So why would it simply kill instead of trying to find a peacefsul solution ? Because its far easier perhaps ? then your god is lazy, because it gets off on it ? then your god is sadastic. If your god was truly about peace and love, then it would try to find a peaceful and positive solution to problems instead of simply killing and slaughtering everyone. Plus how many people has your god MADE suffer on purpose ? Lots, it's caused famine, droughts, ect, all of those make people suffer, so a "peaceful and loving and caring god" wouldn't do stuff like that, now would it ? So the logical conclusion to come to is your god enjoys doing messed up shit to people and enjoys killing things. Which it obviously does.


It means everything, it's God laying out how He feels about sin and death. The Words of the Bible do come from God and are compiled by those He has directed to write. The Bible is Holy Spirit inspired. If you are going to judge God as a sadist based on what is in a few passages of the Bible, then you should also weigh in all the other verses as well in your judgment.

God is not lazy, He did offer a peaceful and free solution by sacrificing all He had through Jesus. All we have to do is repent of our sins in Jesus Name and we are forgiven. God does offer peaceful solutions, but He also punishes sin. God is slow to anger and offers many chances to repent of the sins that are destroying us and this world. Eventually those sins get punished, and we act like deer in the headlights and blame our problems on the One who is trying to stop them. If there was no sin then there would be no need for solutions to problems because sin is the cause of all "problems." God enacted those punishments so that people would turn from sin, and when they wouldn't they were judged. A sadistic God does not degrade Himself to human form, live among humans, get mocked, beaten, insulted, crucified, and rejected by the very creatures He is Loving with all His Heart and trying to save from their own ignorance and wickedness. God is Love, and He Loves the world enough to punish sin and get us to turn to the way that will lead us to eternal life and peace. Not to mention peace on earth as well if we were to only turn to Him.


Nah, it means absolutely nothing, your god is a sadist, but there's nothing wrong with being a sadist, so it doesn't matter either way.

Peace on earth will never happen, there is nothing your god could do about that, killing and war is human nature, has been for a long time, so as long as humankind exists, murder, war, slaughter, torture and so on will exist, that is never going to go away. Deny it all you want but its true, even if everyone sought out your god and became christian war, murder, torture would all still exist, nothing not even your gods could change that. But it really doesn't matter anyway, if there were true peace on earth, earth would be utterly boring all the time, which would be no fun, it would suck. But we don't have to worry about that happening.


God is not a sadist and I have given proof of that from scripture. Again, why do you call him a sadist based on punishments for sin when we are the one's committing the crime? Also, if you base your argument from scripture why do you only hold to narrow passages taken out of context? I don't mean to be disrespectful.

And I agree with you, peace on earth will never happen. God will bring about peace on earth after He judges this world and creates the New Heaven and New Earth, but not in this current state will we see peace because the world is tainted by sin.


The bible proves nothing, it cannot be taken literally, humans wrote it, therefor it cannot be taken literally. And its been translated and edited time and time again, so shit gets lost, added, edited and so forth, so again the bible passages mean absolutely nothing. You proved nothing.

And the bible is damn hard to be taken out of context, there are a million ways to process what it says, and what its passages mean, everyone will get a different meaning from the same passage.

And even if your god is a sadist, why should it matter any ? Whats the problem with being a sadist ? I don't see one.

And yes your right peace on earth, will never happen as long as humans live on its surface, but like i said, peace is boring, and hence no fun, so if peace on earth did come about, it'd suck, cause nothing interesting would ever happen. And god isn't going to create a new earth, mankind is simply going to exist on its surface until a major geological event occurs that kills us off, or greatly reduces our numbers.
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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Well, actually I can say that religion is innocent. I don’t think that religion in and of itself is dangerous. It’s organized political religion that you have to look out for. That’s also true, however, of organized political atheism. Look at the Christians in North Korea literally being crucified simply because their theological views. Look at the French revolution. Wars have been started under all forms of justification, but the fuel for this fire was never the religion itself. It was the politics. Very few things in history have been done for anything other than money. Religion has certainly been a tool, but given the nature of mankind do we honestly believe that in the absence of religion we’re not creative enough to create another excuse?


Yeap, and thats what makes this world so interesting, cause things like that happen, over such minor things too.

Even if religion did go away, mankind would still kill and torture and murder and go to war, its hardwired into us, its human nature. So nah, wars, murder, slaughter and the like are never going to go away. We are always going to find an excuse to kill and go to war. So nah, nothing much would change.
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:
That means nothing. Nothing at all. Your god could totally be a sadist, and is simply lying to you, besides the words of the bible can't possibly come from your god, a human wrote them, not to mention based on its past actions it solution to most problems is to kill the problem in a horrible manner. So why would it simply kill instead of trying to find a peacefsul solution ? Because its far easier perhaps ? then your god is lazy, because it gets off on it ? then your god is sadastic. If your god was truly about peace and love, then it would try to find a peaceful and positive solution to problems instead of simply killing and slaughtering everyone. Plus how many people has your god MADE suffer on purpose ? Lots, it's caused famine, droughts, ect, all of those make people suffer, so a "peaceful and loving and caring god" wouldn't do stuff like that, now would it ? So the logical conclusion to come to is your god enjoys doing messed up shit to people and enjoys killing things. Which it obviously does.


Well, you make some good points but I don’t quite accept some of your postulates. Namely, that if God was loving he’d tried to find a peaceful resolution to earthly issues. It is my belief that the only way God would create a world without evil would be if he himself was an evil tyrant who opposes the existence of love and freedom.

After all, choices have consequences. A choice without consequence isn’t a choice at all, it’s a mechanical reaction. In other words, remove the consequence of our action and you’re taking away the choice. In doing this you’d rob us of our volition. That would make us slaves at best, objects at worst. You cannot have a relationship with an object-there’s simply no reciprocity. Without a relationship there is no love. By extension, a god that removes the consequence of our action from existence is not loving at all. In fact, he’s preventing the existence of love.

Now, sometimes the consequence of human action is to create a situation in which there is no peaceful resolution. Naturally, God could take away those consequences but in doing so he’d be unloving. The only loving thing to do would try to find a non-peaceful resolution. It’d be tough love, no doubt, but love never the less.

As far as the word of the bible not possible being from God, that’s not true. If God can do anything then God can translate his word to us without error. And as far as God lying, I refer you to Peter Kreeft’s aut deus aut homo malus argument centering around modern humanistic Christology and nature of Christ.

Next, your conclusion wasn’t logical at all. It’s making vast sweeping assumptions. There are a plethora of other logical possibilities and while that one is a possible conclusion there’s nothing in logic that makes it preferable to the other possibilities. So, if you were truly logical and clinical and not relying on anything BUT logic then you’d be agnostic on the issue of rather or not God is a sadist.

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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:

Yeap, and thats what makes this world so interesting, cause things like that happen, over such minor things too.

Even if religion did go away, mankind would still kill and torture and murder and go to war, its hardwired into us, its human nature. So nah, wars, murder, slaughter and the like are never going to go away. We are always going to find an excuse to kill and go to war. So nah, nothing much would change.


Exactly, so the conclusion is that religion is not the source of the world’s woes. On the other hand, there is no larger contributor to international charities than religion-and before Christianities influence in the middle east there was no concept of love. There was simply marriage for procreative purposes, and of course political/social/economic reasons. Even Islam-did you know that in acknowledgement of Islams pillar-zakah-some Arabic countries give as much as 10% of their GDP to charity? Imagine if America was Islamic and did that. We spend less than 4% of our GDP on the military...more than triple that and put it into relief programs and you'd be amazed.
Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09
Okay hows about the both of you shut the fuck up, pointing to you digs and allhailodin your both are extremist on both ends so if you want to keep up a pointless i believe in god or i don't, take it pm please other people are fucking sick of the both of you getting all butt hurt over each others views. Personally Christianity can be used as an tool for war because you don't believe in something well I am going to kill you over it durr hurr, the point is it's the people that use that excuse for war and makes them morons for doing so. It does not matter if we get rid of religion there will always be war because man is STUPID. We are the most stupid and pointless creature on the planet we will kill over a pack of cigs for crying out loud, I am really surprised that we have even lasted this long at the top and not have been taken over but oh well. Man is to blame for the worlds ill not religion and it will always be that way.
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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Allhailodin wrote:

That means nothing. Nothing at all. Your god could totally be a sadist, and is simply lying to you, besides the words of the bible can't possibly come from your god, a human wrote them, not to mention based on its past actions it solution to most problems is to kill the problem in a horrible manner. So why would it simply kill instead of trying to find a peacefsul solution ? Because its far easier perhaps ? then your god is lazy, because it gets off on it ? then your god is sadastic. If your god was truly about peace and love, then it would try to find a peaceful and positive solution to problems instead of simply killing and slaughtering everyone. Plus how many people has your god MADE suffer on purpose ? Lots, it's caused famine, droughts, ect, all of those make people suffer, so a "peaceful and loving and caring god" wouldn't do stuff like that, now would it ? So the logical conclusion to come to is your god enjoys doing messed up shit to people and enjoys killing things. Which it obviously does.


It means everything, it's God laying out how He feels about sin and death. The Words of the Bible do come from God and are compiled by those He has directed to write. The Bible is Holy Spirit inspired. If you are going to judge God as a sadist based on what is in a few passages of the Bible, then you should also weigh in all the other verses as well in your judgment.

God is not lazy, He did offer a peaceful and free solution by sacrificing all He had through Jesus. All we have to do is repent of our sins in Jesus Name and we are forgiven. God does offer peaceful solutions, but He also punishes sin. God is slow to anger and offers many chances to repent of the sins that are destroying us and this world. Eventually those sins get punished, and we act like deer in the headlights and blame our problems on the One who is trying to stop them. If there was no sin then there would be no need for solutions to problems because sin is the cause of all "problems." God enacted those punishments so that people would turn from sin, and when they wouldn't they were judged. A sadistic God does not degrade Himself to human form, live among humans, get mocked, beaten, insulted, crucified, and rejected by the very creatures He is Loving with all His Heart and trying to save from their own ignorance and wickedness. God is Love, and He Loves the world enough to punish sin and get us to turn to the way that will lead us to eternal life and peace. Not to mention peace on earth as well if we were to only turn to Him.


Nah, it means absolutely nothing, your god is a sadist, but there's nothing wrong with being a sadist, so it doesn't matter either way.

Peace on earth will never happen, there is nothing your god could do about that, killing and war is human nature, has been for a long time, so as long as humankind exists, murder, war, slaughter, torture and so on will exist, that is never going to go away. Deny it all you want but its true, even if everyone sought out your god and became christian war, murder, torture would all still exist, nothing not even your gods could change that. But it really doesn't matter anyway, if there were true peace on earth, earth would be utterly boring all the time, which would be no fun, it would suck. But we don't have to worry about that happening.


God is not a sadist and I have given proof of that from scripture. Again, why do you call him a sadist based on punishments for sin when we are the one's committing the crime? Also, if you base your argument from scripture why do you only hold to narrow passages taken out of context? I don't mean to be disrespectful.

And I agree with you, peace on earth will never happen. God will bring about peace on earth after He judges this world and creates the New Heaven and New Earth, but not in this current state will we see peace because the world is tainted by sin.


The bible proves nothing, it cannot be taken literally, humans wrote it, therefor it cannot be taken literally. And its been translated and edited time and time again, so shit gets lost, added, edited and so forth, so again the bible passages mean absolutely nothing. You proved nothing.

And the bible is damn hard to be taken out of context, there are a million ways to process what it says, and what its passages mean, everyone will get a different meaning from the same passage.

And even if your god is a sadist, why should it matter any ? Whats the problem with being a sadist ? I don't see one.

And yes your right peace on earth, will never happen as long as humans live on its surface, but like i said, peace is boring, and hence no fun, so if peace on earth did come about, it'd suck, cause nothing interesting would ever happen. And god isn't going to a new earth, mankind is simply going to exist on its surface until a major geological event occurs that kills us off, or greatly reduces our numbers.


Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.

And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.

And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.

And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.
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Posted 5/2/09

digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.


The Bible has been verified, but people choose to ignore the evidence (check the link I posted earlier about historicity and prophecies in the Bible). Things were prophesied about and the happened just as the Bible said they would. History proves this.

And I know that my opinion doesn't make the Bible true, the contents of the Bible do that by nature, I was stating that not believing in the Bible doesn't make it false.

And I do respect you, not just because the Bible calls to love and respect all people, but also because I agree some of what you have said in other forum topics.
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Posted 5/2/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.


The Bible has been verified, but people choose to ignore the evidence (check the link I posted earlier about historicity and prophecies in the Bible). Things were prophesied about and the happened just as the Bible said they would. History proves this.

And I know that my opinion doesn't make the Bible true, the contents of the Bible do that by nature, I was stating that not believing in the Bible doesn't make it false.

And I do respect you, not just because the Bible calls to love and respect all people, but also because I agree some of what you have said in other forum topics.


Oh ? So the earth was created in a day ? The sun in a day as well ? We know how stars and planets form, there not simply created in a day. Since we know how stars and planets form as we have seen them forming, we know this to be false, hence part of the bible has been disproven. If god did create this universe he merely created the 2 elements hydrogen and helium, because all other elements (including the ones humans, trees, planets, and so on are made of) were created as in a star/supernova. through thermonuclear fusion. So we know this concept of god creating manking to also be false, as we are merely stardust.
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.


The Bible has been verified, but people choose to ignore the evidence (check the link I posted earlier about historicity and prophecies in the Bible). Things were prophesied about and the happened just as the Bible said they would. History proves this.

And I know that my opinion doesn't make the Bible true, the contents of the Bible do that by nature, I was stating that not believing in the Bible doesn't make it false.

And I do respect you, not just because the Bible calls to love and respect all people, but also because I agree some of what you have said in other forum topics.


Oh ? So the earth was created in a day ? The sun in a day as well ? We know how stars and planets form, there not simply created in a day. Since we know how stars and planets form as we have seen them forming, we know this to be false, hence part of the bible has been disproven. If god did create this universe he merely created the 2 elements hydrogen and helium, because all other elements (including the ones humans, trees, planets, and so on are made of) were created as in a star/supernova. through thermonuclear fusion. So we know this concept of god creating manking to also be false, as we are merely stardust.


It could have been, part of being God means being able to do anything. God is not limited by space and time, He created them and can work without them limiting His Power. However some Christians view Genesis as a metaphor but still hold that creation happened that way, just not with literal days.

And we don't know how stars and planets form, we just have theories. We have never observed a star being created or a planet being created. Scientists speculate how they may have been created within the context of the big bang theory.

And God could have created all elements, just because we may think stars can make all the elements doesn't mean they did. And even so how did hydrogen and helium come into existence independent of any other power or any will?
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Posted 5/2/09 , edited 5/2/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.


The Bible has been verified, but people choose to ignore the evidence (check the link I posted earlier about historicity and prophecies in the Bible). Things were prophesied about and the happened just as the Bible said they would. History proves this.

And I know that my opinion doesn't make the Bible true, the contents of the Bible do that by nature, I was stating that not believing in the Bible doesn't make it false.

And I do respect you, not just because the Bible calls to love and respect all people, but also because I agree some of what you have said in other forum topics.


Oh ? So the earth was created in a day ? The sun in a day as well ? We know how stars and planets form, there not simply created in a day. Since we know how stars and planets form as we have seen them forming, we know this to be false, hence part of the bible has been disproven. If god did create this universe he merely created the 2 elements hydrogen and helium, because all other elements (including the ones humans, trees, planets, and so on are made of) were created as in a star/supernova. through thermonuclear fusion. So we know this concept of god creating manking to also be false, as we are merely stardust.


It could have been, part of being God means being able to do anything. God is not limited by space and time, He created them and can work without them limiting His Power. However some Christians view Genesis as a metaphor but still hold that creation happened that way, just not with literal days.

And we don't know how stars and planets form, we just have theories. We have never observed a star being created or a planet being created. Scientists speculate how they may have been created within the context of the big bang theory.

And God could have created all elements, just because we may think stars can make all the elements doesn't mean they did. And even so how did hydrogen and helium come into existence independent of any other power or any will?


But it wasn't, the earth took millions if not billions of years to collect all its material out of the solar nebula from which it was born. And we know stars create heavier elements because we can see them in the stars by observing its spectrum, luminosity and motion as it travels through space. We can physically see the heavier elements being created by the star. So we know that heavier elements up to iron were created in stars, everything heavier then iron was created in supernova as a supermassive star does not have enough energy to fuse any element heavier than iron. So yes it means almost everything heavier then Hydrogen and Helium (this includes planets, people, trees, oxygen and so on) were created by fusion, not god
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digs 
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Posted 5/2/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

Humans also wrote and came up with the theories and discovered scientific laws. If mankind is capable of obtaining truth and real knowledge then there is a chance that the Bible is not flawed. I do believe that the Bible is not flawed in anyway and that each book was inspired by the One and Only Holy Spirit of God. Not all things man has done have been flawed, but mankind is flawed by nature. The Bible was meant to be understood and followed. Not everything is literal (like some of the imaging done in visions, especially in the books of Revelation and Daniel). And we have thousands of copies of ancient Biblical manuscripts, if someone changes it then Bible scholars can correct them by showing what we have in the ancient scripts. We do have a reference to what the originals truly said.


Yes but scientific laws have been verified, the bible has not, some of it has even been disproven.



And there are several ways to interpret the Bible, but only One Truth. To truly understand scripture you have to let the Holy Spirit guide you and base all of your Christian theology on scripture and make judgments based on the Bible as a whole and not just one or two verses. The Bible gives us all we can know about the Mind of God.


There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to interpret the bible, nobody is going to interpret it the exact same was as something else.



And being a sadist is a sin because it's wickedness. I believe in the Morals that God has instilled within us and wants us to follow, and sadism is against those morals.


Bah, who cares, even if it is a sin, whats that matter, then all you have to do is repent and your fine. I'd rather live my life the way I want to then live my live based off of some book. Morals and things don't really matter.


And God is going to create a New Earth and a New Heaven It's in Revelation. You can choose to not believe in the Bible, but it doesn't make it false, look at the prophecies that were said and have been fulfilled, and then look at the prophecies to come and see how they are being fulfilled. Here is a good article on why the Bible is true historically and prophetically. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


And you can choose to believe in the bible, but that doesn't make it true.


^(Tries to say this with utmost respect) I am not butt-hurt over his views nor am I trying to personally attack him. There is nothing wrong with respectful debate. And I don't see how believing 100% in the Bible makes me an extremist, it just makes me a Christian. My goal isn't to fight with people, but to defend my views and hopefully engage in respectful debate that brings mutual enlightenment to all involved.


You don't even have to use respect when talking to me, It won't matter to me. Be disrespectful as you want to be. I don't much care either way.


The Bible has been verified, but people choose to ignore the evidence (check the link I posted earlier about historicity and prophecies in the Bible). Things were prophesied about and the happened just as the Bible said they would. History proves this.

And I know that my opinion doesn't make the Bible true, the contents of the Bible do that by nature, I was stating that not believing in the Bible doesn't make it false.

And I do respect you, not just because the Bible calls to love and respect all people, but also because I agree some of what you have said in other forum topics.


Oh ? So the earth was created in a day ? The sun in a day as well ? We know how stars and planets form, there not simply created in a day. Since we know how stars and planets form as we have seen them forming, we know this to be false, hence part of the bible has been disproven. If god did create this universe he merely created the 2 elements hydrogen and helium, because all other elements (including the ones humans, trees, planets, and so on are made of) were created as in a star/supernova. through thermonuclear fusion. So we know this concept of god creating manking to also be false, as we are merely stardust.


It could have been, part of being God means being able to do anything. God is not limited by space and time, He created them and can work without them limiting His Power. However some Christians view Genesis as a metaphor but still hold that creation happened that way, just not with literal days.

And we don't know how stars and planets form, we just have theories. We have never observed a star being created or a planet being created. Scientists speculate how they may have been created within the context of the big bang theory.

And God could have created all elements, just because we may think stars can make all the elements doesn't mean they did. And even so how did hydrogen and helium come into existence independent of any other power or any will?


But it wasn't, the earth took millions if not billions of years to collect all its material out of the solar nebula from which it was born. And we know stars create heavier elements because we can see them in the stars by observing its spectrum, luminosity and motion through space. We can physically see the heavier elements being created by the star. So we know that heavier elements up to iron were created in stars, everything heavier then iron was created in supernova as a supermassive star does not have enough energy to fuse any element heavier than iron. So yes it means almost everything heavier then Hydrogen and Helium (this includes planets, people, trees, oxygen and so on) were created by fusion.


We don't know that to be true, in fact there is evidence that states that the earth cannot be that old. http://toptenproofs.com/article_youngearth.php
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/earthage.html

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