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Should The U.S.A. invade Saudi Arabia?
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Posted 5/23/08

geeene_16 wrote:


Objective standpoint? You mean YOUR standpoint? Ha. Please.
Any idiot will tell you after the USSR collapsed the USA was the only remaining super power. China is getting there though.


Anything that has to do with oil and monopoly would not be easy. You don't need to bloody invade a country to "save" the women. As if that would really happen. Enemies? The Saudis? Oh,you mean the Saudi Arabians? Israel is not in serious danger? The fact that it's being BOMBED
Small bombings which take the lives of a few civilians are not a real thread to Israel.



and the fact that it has a WAR, there is bloody well a danger there
Israel is clearly more powerful here.Better army, more allies helping them out, etc.



Oh yeah they fail and waste money? Are you even aware of the changes Amnesty International did to Iraq? Iraq has lessened their bloody honor killings [/quotes] By and large thats PR nonsense.


AND their government has now implemented the arrest of such. Invasion of Saudi Arabia, ha, you're obviously thinking little of them. They're bloody powerful. Stop thinking that the U.S.A is all that, because it bloody isn't.


Yes it is. I mean come on, even though you might not like this idea America is still the worlds most powerful country.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08
What about the brainwashed people there who are indoctrinated that it is ok to force people to believe what the government wants? Or that a King should rule? Or that it is wrong to speak up for what you believe? Or that male supremacy is acceptable? It is good that they enforce laws, but their laws come from a state religion, any religion controlled by a state becomes either corrupt, or overtakes the government. The Saudis might not be making threats (only because of oil ties to western nations) but they sure aren't doing anything to help anyone. I would visit Saudi Arabia, but I am in no way going to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day.


My Kingdom will survive only insofar as it remains a country difficult to access, where the foreigner will have no other aim, with his task fullfilled, but to get out. -- King Abdul Aziz bin Saud


I don't think they want anyone there either. This was quoted by a King during the 1930's.
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Posted 5/23/08

drizza wrote:

Well Judging how the mainstream media has severly supified the majority of Americans I can honestly agree with you all the mainstream media has to do is attack Islam even more and make up stories about human rights in Saudi Arabia and the ignorant American who doesnt study, whose been brainwashed all day and never raises a question will support it. In reality I just hope this never happens because this can be the dumbest move we ever did. I dont think Saudi is weak man they are pretty rich I heard the prince is like one of the richest men in the world.
He is.



Pretty sure they have a good military with all that money coming in from Oil
Nope. Most of that money has gone to the royal family, and has not been used for the good of the nation.



and that country is bigger then Iraq so no it will not be a cake walk and can take years, billions and bilions of dollars to take them down. Man prices will sky rocket during that war and I dont want to live through that.
I assure you it would not take long. The occupation (like the one in Iraq) is what would take up long periods of time, but during that period we would have control of the Saudi oil fields.


Besides it is morally wrong to send other peoples kids to die for oil, then again they are already dieing for oil in Iraq and possible will start once the neo cons sell a war to the Americans with Iran using the same tactics as Iraq.

As opposed to sending them to die for what? Defeating communism, the NAZI
party, or some other group? Most wars are not good vs evil, but between nations who exist in states of gray. They are economic wars, and they are just as much a power struggle as any other.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

Any idiot will tell you after the USSR collapsed the USA was the only remaining super power. China is getting there though.
Man, I pity you.

Small bombings which take the lives of a few civilians are not a real thread to Israel.
Israel is clearly more powerful here.Better army, more allies helping them out, etc.

What do you mean no threat? The fact that people get killed. And you think that that doesn't impose any danger?



By and large thats PR nonsense.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical of you? Where do you base your arguments? Media. Media is the medium of PR. Aren't you also one of those who are influenced with this PR blitz you mentioned as well? Hm?



Yes it is. I mean come on, even though you might not like this idea America is still the worlds most powerful country.


Bloody hell. I'm an American. And I sure know that America is not THE most powerful It's not even the wealthiest! We don't need America to be this ultimate power/race whatever. Thinking that way is bloody well like Hitler. Once U.S.A invades Saudi, what do you expect would happen? Ha ha. There's a big difference between 'the' and 'a.'
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Posted 5/23/08

geeene_16 wrote:


Man, I pity you.
Ah insults. The realm of those who have no arguments to present.


What do you mean no threat? The fact that people are still killed. And you think that that doesn't impose any danger?
No danger to the government itself. I mean that the nation as a whole is in no danger, though some people might die of course.




Isn't that a bit hypocritical of you? Where do you base your arguments? Media. Media is the medium of PR. Aren't you one of those who are influence with this PR blitz you mentioned as well? Hm?
I would use it to influence, but you claimed they have done a lot of good, which there is no evidence for. It is like my spin in that people will believe it though, but don't try to tell me it's fact. As it is not. I admit that PR is something I would use. It is a very useful weapon, but I fail to see what this has to do with the actual effectiveness of Amnesty international.





Bloody hell. I'm an American. And I sure know that America is not THE most powerful It's not even the wealthiest! We don't need America to be this ultimate power/race whatever. Thinking that way is bloody well like Hitler. Once U.S.A invades Saudi, what do you expect would happen? Ha ha. There's a big difference between 'the' and 'a.'

You are quite simply wrong, as a simple examination of the relative power of nations in world affairs will show. I want us to invade Saudi in part to deny China the oil it needs to industrialize itself quickly. Though they have large oil fields, the size of China means they need outside sources. We need to stop them from getting the oil they need to become a super power who can challenge us. Lets keep it as "the", and not "a" shall we?
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

music190 wrote:

I really liked this interetsing read. And you're right, it IS an evil nation. They kidnap and kill Chirstains for no reason what so ever, they throw babies off the buildings calling them "good luck babies", and they beat, rape, burn woman alive just because they don't wear the bedsheets over there heads. I really think this is an unfair thing. Whatever happend to womans rights? And about the whole oil thing, why can't they just let us have some? Instead of just keeping it all to themselfs and letting our men being scarficed just for oil. And i really do think we can get Israel to to help us if we make a deal with them. The deal would be to protect them and not let anybody take there little of land that everybody is trying to get.

Yeah, thats i all got. I'm not what you would call a wiz at stuff like this. But atleast i tried. =D


FYI there are tons of christians living in Saudi Arabia and churches. For the ignorant who just watch TV alld ay let me educate you they live in compounds within Saudi Arabia gaurded by saudi gaurds which saudis cannot enter. In there is christians, jews, muslims from different parts of the world. So yes youc an practice other religions in saudi. For al those other false claims about Saudi dunno where you got that from just sounds like a bunch of propaganda you heard on Faux news or just someone talking out his ass with no proof.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

music190 wrote:

I really liked this interetsing read. And you're right, it IS an evil nation. They kidnap and kill Chirstains for no reason what so ever, they throw babies off the buildings calling them "good luck babies", and they beat, rape, burn woman alive just because they don't wear the bedsheets over there heads. I really think this is an unfair thing. Whatever happend to womans rights? And about the whole oil thing, why can't they just let us have some? Instead of just keeping it all to themselfs and letting our men being scarficed just for oil. And i really do think we can get Israel to to help us if we make a deal with them. The deal would be to protect them and not let anybody take there little of land that everybody is trying to get.

Yeah, thats i all got. I'm not what you would call a wiz at stuff like this. But atleast i tried. =D


Where the bloody hell did you get those? Ancient history books? Saudi Arabians are not bloody barbarians. The media is exaggerating things. Stop being so ignorant about the truth. Stop believing every damn thing the media tells you. Geesh. Saudi Arabia is a very diverse nation. Give the U.S oil? OPEC IS giving the U.S oil. The U.S is just paying for it. Nothing is free. You SHOULD know that. Isn't U.S.A an evil nation as well then? Killing Iraqis just for oil. U.S.A is nation full of racists and bigots. Isn't that evil?
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Posted 5/23/08

digs wrote:

What about the brainwashed people there who are indoctrinated that it is ok to force people to believe what the government wants? Or that a King should rule? Or that it is wrong to speak up for what you believe? Or that male supremacy is acceptable? It is good that they enforce laws, but their laws come from a state religion, any religion controlled by a state becomes either corrupt, or overtakes the government. The Saudis might not be making threats (only because of oil ties to western nations) but they sure aren't doing anything to help anyone. I would visit Saudi Arabia, but I am in no way going to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day.


My Kingdom will survive only insofar as it remains a country difficult to access, where the foreigner will have no other aim, with his task fullfilled, but to get out. -- King Abdul Aziz bin Saud


I don't think they want anyone there either. This was quoted by a King during the 1930's.


Nah if came from religion any muslim who knows Islam would just say that is false because what they do there is not what is taught in Islam. Yes the majority people there is muslim but that just falls along the lines of culture rather then religion. There are many countries surrounding Saudi who is primarily muslim and doesnt have as much restrictions. Thats just their government leave them be doesnt mean we have to invade them. Lol and I love that lie u just spoke of,"I have to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day." Yet another ignorant typical brainwashed view. I been there I have christian friends there who enjoy it. WHEN IT IS TIME FOR PRAY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PRAY. All though all the shops close down until pray is done you can still walk around and do whatever untill they reopen. Nobody forces you to pray any non muslim who been there can tell you this. I can tell you this because it is from experiance. My christian friends can you this because of their experiance they can knock down any false claim about Saudi which you just presented. This is why my friend I call most of the ignorant Americans brainwashed.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

Ah insults. The realm of those who have no arguments to present.

Ah, the deterioration of logical minds. I was not insulting you. I was merely stating what I feel. Big difference there buddy.

No danger to the government itself. I mean that the nation as a whole is in no danger, though some people might die of course.

Believe what you want to believe. No danger, right. And who makes up the ISRAELI nation? THE PEOPLE.


I would use it to influence, but you claimed they have done a lot of good, which there is no evidence for. It is like my spin in that people will believe it though, but don't try to tell me it's fact. As it is not. I admit that PR is something I would use. It is a very useful weapon, but I fail to see what this has to do with the actual effectiveness of Amnesty international.

Hm, from a guy basing their evidence on media information, you sure aren't aware of what happened to Iraq? News on BBC UK. Iraqi Government official stated it so.



You are quite simply wrong, as a simple examination of the relative power of nations in world affairs will show. I want us to invade Saudi in part to deny China the oil it needs to industrialize itself quickly. Though they have large oil fields, the size of China means they need outside sources. We need to stop them from getting the oil they need to become a super power who can challenge us. Lets keep it as "the", and not "a" shall we?


Wow. You want to deny China of the oil? Are you dumb? Majority of the US production has moved to China. If China's economy fails, the US economy will be affected. No, U.S.A is "a" superpower. You and other people who think like you only proves that you FEAR China. Ha ha. I hope China gets a move on and becomes THE super power. Americans need to learn what modesty is. U.S.A presents itself to the world as the one who fights evil, who respects human rights, fights discrimination. Ha ha. Hypocrites.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

drizza wrote:


digs wrote:

What about the brainwashed people there who are indoctrinated that it is ok to force people to believe what the government wants? Or that a King should rule? Or that it is wrong to speak up for what you believe? Or that male supremacy is acceptable? It is good that they enforce laws, but their laws come from a state religion, any religion controlled by a state becomes either corrupt, or overtakes the government. The Saudis might not be making threats (only because of oil ties to western nations) but they sure aren't doing anything to help anyone. I would visit Saudi Arabia, but I am in no way going to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day.


My Kingdom will survive only insofar as it remains a country difficult to access, where the foreigner will have no other aim, with his task fullfilled, but to get out. -- King Abdul Aziz bin Saud


I don't think they want anyone there either. This was quoted by a King during the 1930's.


Nah if came from religion any muslim who knows Islam would just say that is false because what they do there is not what is taught in Islam. Yes the majority people there is muslim but that just falls along the lines of culture rather then religion. There are many countries surrounding Saudi who is primarily muslim and doesnt have as much restrictions. Thats just their government leave them be doesnt mean we have to invade them. Lol and I love that lie u just spoke of,"I have to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day." Yet another ignorant typical brainwashed view. I been there I have christian friends there who enjoy it. WHEN IT IS TIME FOR PRAY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PRAY. All though all the shops close down until pray is done you can still walk around and do whatever untill they reopen. Nobody forces you to pray any non muslim who been there can tell you this. I can tell you this because it is from experiance. My christian friends can you this because of their experiance they can knock down any false claim about Saudi which you just presented. This is why my friend I call most of the ignorant Americans brainwashed.


Of course they are friendly to Christians http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=2134

You misquoted me. I said "but I am in no way going to be forced to pray to something other than my God five times a day." They might not force you to pray to Allah, but none the less it is government imposed that five times a day, all shops must close and people are strongly encouraged to pray to Allah. Honestly, if I as a protestant Christian came to Saudi Arabia, and during the time of prayer if I started praying out loud to Jesus, what do you think would happen? Saudi Arabia is a very very hard country to get into, they require that you mail them money and provide background checks before they issue you a visa to visit. They have places (Like Mecca) where no one but Muslims are allowed to enter, and these places are enforced by the Saudi government. There is not equal rights between Muslims and anyone of another religious group. According to the CIA World Factbook, Saudi Arabia has a 100% Islamic population (excluding foreign workers) By definition and ruled by the theocratic government, all Saudi Citizens must be Muslims. There is religious segregation to where some roads can only be driven on by Muslims Saudi Arabia is in no way a religiously tolerant nation.
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That picture you just showed is only for Mecca they dont wany any non muslim there. Thats their government and Mecca has the Kaaba which is the direction where muslims pray. That is a very holy cite and so what if you cant get into Mecca thats pretty much whats there nothing else the rest of the area is free for you to go where ever you want. I dont know about it being hard to get into Saudi my dad got me and his whole family able to get there in about a month I believe. That sign you just shown is not all throughtout Saudi so I dont know what you trying to prove there. One city doesnt mean the whole country. All shops are closed because MUSLIMS are suppose to pray 5 times to God (not people but people in general should make prays to God) thats their government but you DO NOT HAVE TO. Most muslims I know when the call for pray comes they dont even pray they just continue what they are doing. Dude digs sometimes dude you just need to step back and accept what peoples culture is and stop thinking you can americanize the whole world. These reasons you guys are presenting to invade Saudi is not serious enough for them to be a threat. People are living their lives in Saudi and fine if your a Christian and you believe it is hard for you to practice your religion then why are you there? So what if they dont allow Christian practices outside of compounds thats their government obide by their rules or get out no need to rage war because Thou cant practice christianty. A lot of muslims countries allow you to have churches this is the one of the few who doesnt allow churches outside of compounds oh well move on. I dont agree with everything the governement does in saudi especially the way women cant drive I still dont understand why and many other muslims as well. But these small issues isnt big enough for me to just want to go to war with them.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08
^^Refers to picture.
Isn't Mecca considered to be like the holy land thing for the Muslims?
If that's the case, I don't see anything wrong with not allowing non-Muslims to go there.
It's just respect for the religion.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

geeene_16 wrote:


Ah, the deterioration of logical minds. I was not insulting you. I was merely stating what I feel. Big difference there buddy
What is an insult? It is a subjective term, and I view your pity as an insult.




Believe what you want to believe. No danger, right. And who makes up the ISRAELI nation? THE PEOPLE.
Not a large enough % would die to make a serious difference. Terrorism is meant to scare people, but it usually can not come close to killing large enough numbers to defeat a nation




Hm, from a guy basing their evidence on media information,
I do not base it on media information.


you sure aren't aware of what happened to Iraq? News on BBC UK. Iraqi Government official stated it so.
Think about this for a moment dear. How would they have an effect on the largely rural population, or determine when they had an honor killing? Do you think such things are reported to the people who come to investigate? A mullah wields TREMENDOUS power over in Iraq, and to claim they are able to change things of this nature without force is nothing short of deluded.




Wow. You want to deny China of the oil? Are you dumb? Majority of the US production has moved to China
Yes that is so. But this is not important. The issue is to prevent FURTHER industrialization of China, and not to destroy their economy. Their own oil fields can supply the factories already in use. The beauty of this is that they still have to sell us things from those factories, as their economy depends upon the USA. So not only do we not hurt our own overseas interest, we also prevent further out sourcing, and prevent the growth of China's sphere of influence.


If China's economy fails, the US economy will be affected. No, U.S.A is "a" superpower. You and other people who think like you only proves that you FEAR China. Ha ha. I hope China gets a move on and becomes THE super power.
Then you are a traitor to your nation my dear.



Americans need to learn what modesty is. U.S.A presents itself to the world as the one who fights evil, who respects human rights, fights discrimination. Ha ha. Hypocrites.


So?
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Posted 5/23/08

drizza wrote:

That picture you just showed is only for Mecca they dont wany any non muslim there. Thats their government and Mecca has the Kaaba which is the direction where muslims pray. That is a very holy cite and so what if you cant get into Mecca thats pretty much whats there nothing else the rest of the area is free for you to go where ever you want. I dont know about it being hard to get into Saudi my dad got me and his whole family able to get there in about a month I believe. That sign you just shown is not all throughtout Saudi so I dont know what you trying to prove there. One city doesnt mean the whole country. All shops are closed because MUSLIMS are suppose to pray 5 times to God (not people but people in general should make prays to God) thats their government but you DO NOT HAVE TO. Most muslims I know when the call for pray comes they dont even pray they just continue what they are doing. Dude digs sometimes dude you just need to step back and accept what peoples culture is and stop thinking you can americanize the whole world. These reasons you guys are presenting to invade Saudi is not serious enough for them to be a threat. People are living their lives in Saudi and fine if your a Christian and you believe it is hard for you to practice your religion then why are you there? So what if they dont allow Christian practices outside of compounds thats their government obide by their rules or get out no need to rage war because Thou cant practice christianty. A lot of muslims countries allow you to have churches this is the one of the few who doesnt allow churches outside of compounds oh well move on. I dont agree with everything the governement does in saudi especially the way women cant drive I still dont understand why and many other muslims as well. But these small issues isnt big enough for me to just want to go to war with them.


Of course! Human rights such as freedom of expression, not being forced into burning buildings, the right to dress as you wish, the right to not be sent to jail for being raped unless you have four wittinesses, and all the other things Sharia law forbids are not reason to go to war at all.
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Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

What is an insult? It is a subjective term, and view your pity as an insult.

Hm, but I do not view it as an insult directed at you. So we conflict with our views then.



Not a large enough % would die to make a serious difference. Terrorism is meant to scare people, but it usually can not come close to killing large enough numbers to defeat a nation

What? Do you even know how many people have died? No you don't know.Israel and Palestine has already passed the stage of terrorism. What they have is a WAR. You can't deny that.



Think about this for a moment dear. How would they have an effect on the largely rural population, or determine when they had an honor killing? Do you think such things are reported to the people who come to investigate? A mullah wields TREMENDOUS power over in Iraq, and to claim they are able to change things of this nature without force is nothing short of deluded.

Ew, don't call me dear. It's true about the Mullah having power. But the fact that Amnesty had made a difference. Even if it's small and might seem insignificant to you, there's still a change that was made. Oh, you don't base your information from the media? So you don't get the information from newspapers, magazine, news channels et cetera? Last time I checked, that IS the media.


Yes that is so. But this is not important. The issue is to prevent FURTHER industrialization of China, and not to destroy their economy. Their own oil fields can supply the factories already in use. The beauty of this is that they still have to sell us things from those factories, as their economy depends upon the USA. So not only do we not hurt our own overseas interest, we also prevent further out sourcing, and prevent the growth of China's sphere of influence.

Why are you so scared of China industrializing? Even if the USA invades Saudi Arabia, China would still be in production. Ha ha Whatever misfortune that will happen to China's economy will affect the U.S, actually not only the U.S would get affected, but its allies as well. China has numerous suppliers of oil. Including Sudan and other countries in Africa. What? should the USA also invade those countries?


Then you are a traitor to your nation my dear.

Ugh, don't call me dear. And no, I am not a traitor. You are taking the word 'traitor' too lightly. Learn the word first before you use it. I am no traitor. I am a realist. This is what's really happening. China WILL overthrow U.S.A in the future and it is true that the U.S fears this. This IS the harshness of reality.



So?

Nothing else. The arrogance of this nation would be the cause of its downfall.

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