First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Should The U.S.A. invade Saudi Arabia?
1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

geeene_16 wrote:


What? Do you even know how many people have died? No you don't know.Israel and Palestine has already passed the stage of terrorism. What they have is a WAR. You can't deny that.

If Israel was in real danger the USA would quickly intervene. There are a number of reasons for this. The main ones are that we can keep soldiers in the middle east in Israel, we have a strong ally who helps up protect our interests there in Israel, and finally there are very powerful Israeli lobbying groups in DC. VERY powerful lobbying groups. Take it from me Israel is no danger, they basically run rough shod over Palestinian forces.



Ew, don't call me dear. It's true about the Mullah having power. But the fact that Amnesty had made a difference. Even if it's small and might seem insignificant to you, there's still a change that was made. Oh, you don't base your information from the media? So you don't get the information from newspapers, magazine, news channels et cetera? Last time I checked, that IS the media.
To some extent yes I admit I do. I was not really clear. I get from those sources, but I also examine world trade statistics, declassified government reports, and try to keep a look out for other meaningful information. I guess I do by definition use the media, but I mean I avoid the mainstream spin doctors (FOX NEWS etc) as much as I can, and do not regard them as objective sources of information. You are right though that I view their progress as worthless.



Why are you so scared of China industrializing?
We do not want another cold war on our hands do we? Thats the result of the increase in Chinese power, make no mistake.

[quote[
Even if the USA invades Saudi Arabia, China would still be in production. Ha ha Whatever misfortune that will happen to China's economy will affect the U.S, actually nto only the U.S but its allies as well. China has numerous suppliers of oil. Including Sudan and other countries in Africa. What? should the USA also invade those countries?
I think you grossly underestimate the importance of the middle east in regards to the production of oil. I am not talking about just saying no oil for you China! What you do is charge price which make buying the oil difficult for Chinese oil concerns.


Ugh, don't call me dear. And no, I am not a traitor. You are taking the word 'traitor' too lightly. Learn the word first before you use it. I am no traitor. I am a realist. This is what's really happening. China WILL overthrow U.S.A in the future and it is true that the U.S fears this. This IS the harshness of reality.
Even if that does happen I will gladly say that I wished to prevent it. Furthermore that is hardly a foregone conclusion at this point in time, and if America plays it's cards right we may remain the superpower.




Nothing else. The arrogance of this nation would be the cause of its downfall.



It is only arrogance if you overestimate your abilities.

I do not really wish to argue with you. I think both of us have made our view clear; I respect your right to your opinion, even though I strongly disagree with it.
6598 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / F / Colorado
Offline
Posted 5/23/08



I do not really wish to argue with you. I think both of us have made our view clear; I respect your right to your opinion, even though I strongly disagree with it.

Same here. And I do find a lot of holes into your arguments. but I find no further need into substantiating my side. I will tolerate your opinion, but I will not accept it. Sad to say. Your mentality is very similar to Hitler's. I hope you be aware of that.
387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Georgia Southern...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08
From many of the arguments here, it seems as though America's purpose is to control the world and impose its way of life onto everyone else on the planet. Ah... ethnocentrism.
1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08 , edited 5/23/08

jdynamite wrote:

From many of the arguments here, it seems as though America's purpose is to control the world and impose its way of life onto everyone else on the planet. Ah... ethnocentrism.


Morality is totally subjective. It is itself a part of the culture of a society. If one makes a moral judgment on any issue, then they are also guilty of ethnocentrism. So if you think that it is wrong to rape a 3 year old (and I hope you do), then you are just as bad as Hitler was in that regard.
387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Georgia Southern...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


jdynamite wrote:

From many of the arguments here, it seems as though America's purpose is to control the world and impose its way of life onto everyone else on the planet. Ah... ethnocentrism.


Morality is totally subjective. It is itself a part of the culture of a society. If one makes a moral judgment on any issue, then they are also guilty of ethnocentrism. So if you think that it is wrong to rape a 3 year old (and I hope you do), then you are just as bad as Hitler was in that regard.


That's bordering along the lines of ad hominem, my friend. I agree that morality is totally subjective and is based on the cultural standpoint as well as the comment about rushing to make moral judgments leading to ethnocentrism. Granted, by that same argument, saying that raping a 3 year old girl is wrong is a form of ethnocentrism.

I'd like to believe that the nations could learn to respect each other's cultures without leading to war, but personal greed and human ambition as well as the need to impose your own way of thinking on others have been driving forces in humanity for ages, perhaps since the dawn of civilization.
387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Georgia Southern...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08

jdynamite wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:


jdynamite wrote:

From many of the arguments here, it seems as though America's purpose is to control the world and impose its way of life onto everyone else on the planet. Ah... ethnocentrism.


Morality is totally subjective. It is itself a part of the culture of a society. If one makes a moral judgment on any issue, then they are also guilty of ethnocentrism. So if you think that it is wrong to rape a 3 year old (and I hope you do), then you are just as bad as Hitler was in that regard.


That's bordering along the lines of ad hominem, my friend. I admit.. I agree that morality is totally subjective and is based on the cultural standpoint as well as the comment about rushing to make moral judgments leading to ethnocentrism. Granted, by that same argument, saying that raping a 3 year old girl is wrong is a form of ethnocentrism.

I'd like to believe that the nations could learn to respect each other's cultures without leading to war, but personal greed and human ambition as well as the need to impose your own way of thinking on others have been driving forces in humanity for ages, perhaps since the dawn of civilization.


1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/23/08

jdynamite wrote:



That's bordering along the lines of ad hominem, my friend.
Not really. I was not attacking you, I just wanted to point out that everyone is to some degree ethnocentric. It is just how humans are I guess.


I agree that morality is totally subjective and is based on the cultural standpoint as well as the comment about rushing to make moral judgments leading to ethnocentrism. Granted, by that same argument, saying that raping a 3 year old girl is wrong is a form of ethnocentrism.

I'd like to believe that the nations could learn to respect each other's cultures without leading to war, but personal greed and human ambition as well as the need to impose your own way of thinking on others have been driving forces in humanity for ages, perhaps since the dawn of civilization.

I don't know about that. I see what you mean, but I will never respect a culture I see as evil, such as those who use Sharia law.
387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Georgia Southern...
Offline
Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


jdynamite wrote:



That's bordering along the lines of ad hominem, my friend.
Not really. I was not attacking you, I just wanted to point out that everyone is to some degree ethnocentric. It is just how humans are I guess.


I agree that morality is totally subjective and is based on the cultural standpoint as well as the comment about rushing to make moral judgments leading to ethnocentrism. Granted, by that same argument, saying that raping a 3 year old girl is wrong is a form of ethnocentrism.

I'd like to believe that the nations could learn to respect each other's cultures without leading to war, but personal greed and human ambition as well as the need to impose your own way of thinking on others have been driving forces in humanity for ages, perhaps since the dawn of civilization.

I don't know about that. I see what you mean, but I will never respect a culture I see as evil, such as those who use Sharia law.


I know you weren't directly attacking me, but saying that if I don't believe in a certain argument that I'm no better than Hitler is associating me with him. Even if it's indirectly, some people may think Hitler when they think of me, thus weakening my argument just because of the association. I'm still learning about many of the informal fallacies, so I'll have to look into this.

As for not respecting a culture you see as evil, you can't really support American culture because of its involvement in Iraq and leading the country into essentially a civil war, causing a large number of civilian casualties, a war that was initiated based on false pretense, but getting on the war in Iraq is a completely different discussions. I could also go into the atrocities done by the American government such as concentration camps for Japanese citizens during world world two, Vietnam, and many other examples. But I'm going off-topic. Religion is really delicate, and seeing how Saudi Arabia is where Mecca is located, an attack on that nation could possibly bring the wrath of the Islamic world onto the United States... and religion can be a very powerful motivator.
1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

jdynamite wrote:



I know you weren't directly attacking me, but saying that if I don't believe in a certain argument that I'm no better than Hitler is associating me with him.
In a way I was comparing all people to Hitler , and not just you. What I mean is that if you make a moral judgment you are just an ethnocentric, since it was Hitler's morality which led him to do the things he did (an there is just as much basis for his morality as yours or mine). My point was not to attack you, but to illustrate a point about the nature of ethnocentrism, and how it is not something we can escape. I am sorry if I offended you.



E Even if it's indirectly, some people may think Hitler when they think of me, thus weakening my argument just because of the association. I'm still learning about many of the informal fallacies, so I'll have to look into this.
I might be able to help you here. In order to commit this fallacy you attack a person personally instead of their arguments. If Hitler said for instance 2+2=4, then he is correct . I can not make him wrong by attacking his shall we say less desirable qualities. I was not attacking you personally in order to make your arguments invalid, but using an analogy to back up my argument. Since that is the case I have not committed this logical fallacy.


As for not respecting a culture you see as evil, you can't really support American culture because of its involvement in Iraq and leading the country into essentially a civil war, causing a large number of civilian casualties, a war that was initiated based on false pretense, but getting on the war in Iraq is a completely different discussions. I could also go into the atrocities done by the American government such as concentration camps for Japanese citizens during world world two, Vietnam, and many other examples. But I'm going off-topic. Religion is really delicate, and seeing how Saudi Arabia is where Mecca is located, an attack on that nation could possibly bring the wrath of the Islamic world onto the United States... and religion can be a very powerful motivator.

All nations have to do less than pleasant things, and make mistakes. The ideal of America is what I love. This is a complex issue, and I do not deny America's crimes. It is however the best country in my opinion to have ever been. What nation has not done as bad or worse? Most have terrible things in their history. Not to mention that I support America for no other reason that it is my country. It's immoral actions would have to get drastically out of hand to get me to side against it.

As for Mecca I already mentioned in an earlier post ways to use PR to make that an asset to this cause.
387 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Georgia Southern...
Offline
Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


jdynamite wrote:



I know you weren't directly attacking me, but saying that if I don't believe in a certain argument that I'm no better than Hitler is associating me with him.
In a way I was comparing all people to Hitler , and not just you. What I mean is that if you make a moral judgment you are just an ethnocentric, since it was Hitler's morality which led him to do the things he did (an there is just as much basis for his morality as yours or mine). My point was not to attack you, but to illustrate a point about the nature of ethnocentrism, and how it is not something we can escape. I am sorry if I offended you.



E Even if it's indirectly, some people may think Hitler when they think of me, thus weakening my argument just because of the association. I'm still learning about many of the informal fallacies, so I'll have to look into this.
I might be able to help you here. In order to commit this fallacy you attack a person personally instead of their arguments. If Hitler said for instance 2+2=4, then he is correct . I can not make him wrong by attacking his shall we say less desirable qualities. I was not attacking you personally in order to make your arguments invalid, but using an analogy to back up my argument. Since that is the case I have not committed this logical fallacy.


As for not respecting a culture you see as evil, you can't really support American culture because of its involvement in Iraq and leading the country into essentially a civil war, causing a large number of civilian casualties, a war that was initiated based on false pretense, but getting on the war in Iraq is a completely different discussions. I could also go into the atrocities done by the American government such as concentration camps for Japanese citizens during world world two, Vietnam, and many other examples. But I'm going off-topic. Religion is really delicate, and seeing how Saudi Arabia is where Mecca is located, an attack on that nation could possibly bring the wrath of the Islamic world onto the United States... and religion can be a very powerful motivator.

All nations have to do less than pleasant things, and make mistakes. The ideal of America is what I love. This is a complex issue, and I do not deny America's crimes. It is however the best country in my opinion to have ever been. What nation has not done as bad or worse? Most have terrible things in their history. Not to mention that I support America for no other reason that it is my country. It's immoral actions would have to get drastically out of hand to get me to side against it.

As for Mecca I already mentioned in an earlier post ways to use PR to make that an asset to this cause.


No worries. I'm rather easy-going, so it helps with these kinds of discussions. I knew you weren't trying to insult me or anything. Granted, no nation is perfect just as you said, but I am also American and quite comfortable living here despite the wrongs done to my very own race by the American government in the past. The beautiful thing about people is that if enough come together to fight for a common cause, they can make great progress. Thank you for thinking critically and also giving me some insight. I'll take everything you said into consideration, but I must be off.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


drizza wrote:

That picture you just showed is only for Mecca they dont wany any non muslim there. Thats their government and Mecca has the Kaaba which is the direction where muslims pray. That is a very holy cite and so what if you cant get into Mecca thats pretty much whats there nothing else the rest of the area is free for you to go where ever you want. I dont know about it being hard to get into Saudi my dad got me and his whole family able to get there in about a month I believe. That sign you just shown is not all throughtout Saudi so I dont know what you trying to prove there. One city doesnt mean the whole country. All shops are closed because MUSLIMS are suppose to pray 5 times to God (not people but people in general should make prays to God) thats their government but you DO NOT HAVE TO. Most muslims I know when the call for pray comes they dont even pray they just continue what they are doing. Dude digs sometimes dude you just need to step back and accept what peoples culture is and stop thinking you can americanize the whole world. These reasons you guys are presenting to invade Saudi is not serious enough for them to be a threat. People are living their lives in Saudi and fine if your a Christian and you believe it is hard for you to practice your religion then why are you there? So what if they dont allow Christian practices outside of compounds thats their government obide by their rules or get out no need to rage war because Thou cant practice christianty. A lot of muslims countries allow you to have churches this is the one of the few who doesnt allow churches outside of compounds oh well move on. I dont agree with everything the governement does in saudi especially the way women cant drive I still dont understand why and many other muslims as well. But these small issues isnt big enough for me to just want to go to war with them.


Of course! Human rights such as freedom of expression, not being forced into burning buildings, the right to dress as you wish, the right to not be sent to jail for being raped unless you have four wittinesses, and all the other things Sharia law forbids are not reason to go to war at all.


I am about to refute that down right propoganda lie about rape in Saudi Arabia right now. YOU NEED 4 WITNESS FOR ADULTRY NOT RAPE. It is even stated that in the Quran and the punishment for commiting adultry I believe is 89 lashings. In Saudi Arabia if get caught raping you can get executed because it is forcefull sex upon a women. Right to dress as you wish are you seriously saying we should attack a country because they want their women to dress modest rather then having their asses stuck out? Forced into burning buildings where you get ha from as far as I know I never seen any Saudi do this. Uh oh looks like you need to find another reason to invade this country.
16324 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Bangalore,India
Offline
Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08
Afghanistan- Invaded coz of 9/11(VALID REASON)
Iraq-Invaded for WMDs(50% valid)
Saudi Arabia-"We dont like how they treat women,we're gonna go all Haditha and Abu Ghraib on their ass,y'all!!!"



If the US has to invade a country,it could be North korea or Zimbabwe.


Besides,Invading Saudi Arabia automatically involves every Muslim/arab army in the world,since it is the heart of Islam.If you thought Iraq and Afghanistan was bad,having 20-30 armies fighting and launching random attacks will be hell.
1501 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
home
Offline
Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08
The USA shouldn't interfere with other country's problem. And the reason for them to invade Saudi Arabia isn't reasonable at all.

The "Makkah" which is the heart of Islam is located there in Saudi Arabia. Imagine the USA invading Saudi Arabia which involves the Makkah as well, that will trigger all the Muslims from all over the world. In result, a massive world war..
1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/24/08

drizza wrote:



I am about to refute that down right propoganda lie about rape in Saudi Arabia right now. YOU NEED 4 WITNESS FOR ADULTRY NOT RAPE.
That is a lie. Read up on Sharia law.



It is even stated that in the Quran and the punishment for commiting adultry I believe is 89 lashings.
Women can not be witnesses like men can according to the Qu'ran. This is way unless she has 4 people who saw it, then it is seen as fornication not rape.



In Saudi Arabia if get caught raping you can get executed because it is forcefull sex upon a women.
If 4 other people see it then yes.



Right to dress as you wish are you seriously saying we should attack a country because they want their women to dress modest rather then having their asses stuck out?
Read the link in my OP where little girls were forced into a burning building for not having proper clothing. Not to mention they can not drive, or leave home without a male escort. It goes far beyond clothes.



Forced into burning buildings where you get ha from as far as I know I never seen any Saudi do this. Uh oh looks like you need to find another reason to invade this country.

Hahahah read the OP, and see the link. Thats kind of why I put it there.
1283 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Everywhere you wa...
Offline
Posted 5/24/08

h4x0rz wrote:

Afghanistan- Invaded coz of 9/11(VALID REASON)
Iraq-Invaded for WMDs(50% valid)
Saudi Arabia-"We dont like how they treat women,we're gonna go all Haditha and Abu Ghraib on their ass,y'all!!!"



If the US has to invade a country,it could be North korea or Zimbabwe.


Besides,Invading Saudi Arabia automatically involves every Muslim/arab army in the world,since it is the heart of Islam.If you thought Iraq and Afghanistan was bad,having 20-30 armies fighting and launching random attacks will be hell.


We will really be in it for the oil. I think we can use the Islam aspect to our advantage. Just read my earlier post about the PR campaign we can launch.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.