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Should The U.S.A. invade Saudi Arabia?
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27 / M / Bangalore,India
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Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:

Afghanistan- Invaded coz of 9/11(VALID REASON)
Iraq-Invaded for WMDs(50% valid)
Saudi Arabia-"We dont like how they treat women,we're gonna go all Haditha and Abu Ghraib on their ass,y'all!!!"



If the US has to invade a country,it could be North korea or Zimbabwe.


Besides,Invading Saudi Arabia automatically involves every Muslim/arab army in the world,since it is the heart of Islam.If you thought Iraq and Afghanistan was bad,having 20-30 armies fighting and launching random attacks will be hell.


We will really be in it for the oil. I think we can use the Islam aspect to our advantage. Just read my earlier post about the PR campaign we can launch.


theres a difference between iraq and afghanistan and the entire muslim populace in the world.
It's like bombing the Vatican and expecting Catholics to do nothing.
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Posted 5/24/08
Thats not a lie thats the truth there was a recent incident in Saudi Arabia where a man was executed for rape my dad just told me about it and he dint have no 4 witness. If you believe you can rape and get away with it thinkimg you need 4 witness then come down to saudi, rape someone and fly back here and let me know what happened. I gaurentee you wont be able to do that.
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Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

There is a growing assumption on the part of members of the US Congress, US-Saudi diplomats, and the American public that the Bush administration is making a “turnaround” in US policy towards the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia because of neo-conservative and domestic interest group pressure. Those opposed to the current administration accuse the White House of maintaining ties to an enemy of America in exchange for lucrative business deals. In contrast, those who support ties with Saudi Arabia maintain that the US has no intention of severing relations with a regional stabilizing force and with long term friends in the House of Saud. Who is correct?

Neither.

The US has not had wholly “friendly” intentions towards the Kingdom for the past 30 years. Any appearance of such is only the visible veneer of real US military policy. Declassified documents reveal that there has been a constant drumbeat to invade Saudi Arabia that has sounded behind the closed doors of our government. The Pentagon, for three decades, has formulated and updated secret plans to seize Saudi oil wells and rid the Kingdom of the ruling House of Saud. This is not only a neo-conservative cabal. Time and again plans have been made for an invasion of Saudi Arabia for a larger purpose: US control of the global oil supply thereby dominating global economic markets.

The most recent wave of charges that Saudi Arabia supports, condones, and aids terrorism signify a secondary and more public attempt to gain support to finally execute a thirty year old plan to occupy Saudi Arabia. Other regional players’ objectives, (securing oil supplies; the rationale of a "war on terror") may add synergy and an unstoppable impetus for an American invasion.

We should also note that Saudi Arabia abuses women , since it is under Sharia law (some of you will remembe the group of the school girls forced back into a burning building since they had no covering). It is an evil, evil, evil, and disgusting nation. We would all be better off if it was gone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

I want the US to take over Saudi Arabia. We move our forces in Iraq, get Israel to help us, and throw in some big old missiles. Then we have control over all that oil, and can stop the flagrant abuse of women. I am speaking of course from the perspective of an American, and I wish for America to retain it's single super power status. In order to do that we need control of those oil fields.




Things that will happen if/when Saudi Arabia gets invaded by the USA-h4x0rz:
1.US invades Saudi Arabia despite worldwide outrage
2.Widespread condemnation follows
3.Clashes worldwide and rioting,US troops expelled from Iraq and Afghanistan
4.Oil prices go to $200
5.Economic boycott of the USA by the 22 Arab League Nations
6.Pervez Musharaff,Hugo Chavez,Raul Castro lend support to Saudi government
7.Widespread boycott of US products
8.US army bases in the Middle east closed,leaving Iran free to attack at any time.
9.Hate crimes rise worldwide
10.Economic recession.
11.Hardline Islamists sweep polls in all Arab nations riding popular support
12.and those who dont get elected,get to power by bloody coups
13.Moqtada Al Sadr becomes master of Iraq
14.Al Qaida recruit several hundred new supporters
15.Meanwhile,the Taliban overthrew the weak,ineffective Afghanistan government in the absence of US troops
16.Oil prices rise to $500
17.Somewhere between steps 8 to 16,the US formally announces World War 3
18.Immigrants to US carry out varying acts of terror
19.YouAreDumb is drafted nto the Army despite his protests
20.YouAreDumb is killed by militants of hamas and hezbollah,now spread all over the Middle east
21.Crunchyroll is closed down coz Shinji cant afford it anymore
22.Investors such as Talat Bin Abdul Aziz sell off all their stakes in American Companes plunging the country into Depression
23.United Airlines,Citibank and other MNC's announce bankruptcy
24.Rioting affects the united states.the white house issues a shoot to kill order
25.meanwhile,the Kremlin adopts a neutral stance as it provides it's new clients in the Middle East with guns and bombs
26.National Guard deployed across the states
27.Anthrax outbreak in Israel.President Obama/McCain declares "Mission Accomplished"
28.Oil prices rise to $1000
29.China sells nuclear technology to several arab states
30.North Korea joins the war
31.The death toll crosses a million
32.Thousands of splinter groups launch individual attacks against the US and Us interests overwhelming the FBI and CIa's capabilities
33.First large scale biochemical attack on US soil
34.A disgruntled immigrant shoots Former President Bush
35.Rising food prices trigger looting and rioting
36.And Global Warming gets to uncontrollably screwed levels
37.Third world countires ally with the Saudi side,stop exports of Oil and Rice to the US
38.Thousands die of starvation worldwide
39.Luxury goods house Armani joins Versace and Gucci,files for bankruptcy
40.The United nations is officially disbanded
41.All the while,President Obama/McCain insists on staying the course
42.Iran and pakistan launch Nuclear Missiles into Israel,in retaliation for nuclear strikes in Islamabad and tehran
43.Britain announces it's withdrawal from the war effort
44.There are still people in the US who think the war is a good idea.none of them are drafted by the military tho.
45.Energy is now a luxury.
46.The US dollar is now worth lesser than the filipino Peso
47.Unemployment,crime,inflation are at record levels
48.h4x0rz finally gives up his moderate,secular Islamic stance and joins a radical islamist group
49.h4x0rz is very predictably shot dead after a killing spree in a dangerous warzone
50.China & Russia announce Superpower status as does their new allies,the bloc of islamic nations,the United States halts the war effort and the world is plunged into a new Cold War.


Then the presient asks himself "damn,we screwed ourselves pretty bad for Women's rights,didnt we?"
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Posted 5/24/08

h4x0rz wrote:





Things that will happen if/when Saudi Arabia gets invaded by the USA-h4x0rz:
1.US invades Saudi Arabia despite worldwide outrage
2.Widespread condemnation follows
3.Clashes worldwide and rioting,US troops expelled from Iraq and Afghanistan
4.Oil prices go to $200
5.Economic boycott of the USA by the 22 Arab League Nations
6.Pervez Musharaff,Hugo Chavez,Raul Castro lend support to Saudi government
7.Widespread boycott of US products
8.US army bases in the Middle east closed,leaving Iran free to attack at any time.
9.Hate crimes rise worldwide
10.Economic recession.
11.Hardline Islamists sweep polls in all Arab nations riding popular support
12.and those who dont get elected,get to power by bloody coups
13.Moqtada Al Sadr becomes master of Iraq
14.Al Qaida recruit several hundred new supporters
15.Meanwhile,the Taliban overthrew the weak,ineffective Afghanistan government in the absence of US troops
16.Oil prices rise to $500
17.Somewhere between steps 8 to 16,the US formally announces World War 3
18.Immigrants to US carry out varying acts of terror
19.YouAreDumb is drafted nto the Army despite his protests
20.YouAreDumb is killed by militants of hamas and hezbollah,now spread all over the Middle east
21.Crunchyroll is closed down coz Shinji cant afford it anymore
22.Investors such as Talat Bin Abdul Aziz sell off all their stakes in American Companes plunging the country into Depression
23.United Airlines,Citibank and other MNC's announce bankruptcy
24.Rioting affects the united states.the white house issues a shoot to kill order
25.meanwhile,the Kremlin adopts a neutral stance as it provides it's new clients in the Middle East with guns and bombs
26.National Guard deployed across the states
27.Anthrax outbreak in Israel.President Obama/McCain declares "Mission Accomplished"
28.Oil prices rise to $1000
29.China sells nuclear technology to several arab states
30.North Korea joins the war
31.The death toll crosses a million
32.Thousands of splinter groups launch individual attacks against the US and Us interests overwhelming the FBI and CIa's capabilities
33.First large scale biochemical attack on US soil
34.A disgruntled immigrant shoots Former President Bush
35.Rising food prices trigger looting and rioting
36.And Global Warming gets to uncontrollably screwed levels
37.Third world countires ally with the Saudi side,stop exports of Oil and Rice to the US
38.Thousands die of starvation worldwide
39.Luxury goods house Armani joins Versace and Gucci,files for bankruptcy
40.The United nations is officially disbanded
41.All the while,President Obama/McCain insists on staying the course
42.Iran and pakistan launch Nuclear Missiles into Israel,in retaliation for nuclear strikes in Islamabad and tehran
43.Britain announces it's withdrawal from the war effort
44.There are still people in the US who think the war is a good idea.none of them are drafted by the military tho.
45.Energy is now a luxury.
46.The US dollar is now worth lesser than the filipino Peso
47.Unemployment,crime,inflation are at record levels
48.h4x0rz finally gives up his moderate,secular Islamic stance and joins a radical islamist group
49.h4x0rz is very predictably shot dead after a killing spree in a dangerous warzone
50.China & Russia announce Superpower status as does their new allies,the bloc of islamic nations,the United States halts the war effort and the world is plunged into a new Cold War.


Then the presient asks himself "damn,we screwed ourselves pretty bad for Women's rights,didnt we?"

2. PR takes care of this problem as I said. No one is going to be upset with us if we spin it the correct way. If we bring up things like the story in the OP, and bring up some bogus crap about them inflating oil prices no one is going to give a damn.
3. Hahahah thats funny. Who is going to go in and do it? No one is going to send their forces to do that you ignorant fool. No onw has the bases in the middle east to get troops there fast enough to do so for one thing.
4. Doubtful. If the USA controlled Saudi Arabia all we have to do is keep the oil flowing, and no one is going to become upset.
5.Never happen .They depend on the USA. Not only do they need he US markets for their products, they also to a large extent have capital is US dollars. If they do remove their capital from the US, the what happens? They have to put it somewhere. The safe bet is Europe. When that happens interest rates there go down, and now Europe has a lot of extra money, which in turn is sent to eh USA, and China, which will strengthen the dollar, thus helping the US economy as money flows in form Europe.
6. So? They are universally hated on the world stage. This is good for the USA. We simply get on tv, and talk about how these evil men are supporting other evil men. Bring up their human rights abuses. Q.E.D.
7.Not going to happen. The world economy depends on us far to much for that to every happen. You are living in a dream world.
8. Why? No one has the forces to push us out in that region. Why would we close our bases?
9.Doubtful. Most people won't give a damn, since violence is common in the middle east. This prediction has no basis really.
10.Why? That wont happen if the USA channels oil without OPEC in the way. We simply reduce the price of oil, which in turn lowers the overhead for all companies, and thus prices lower which would prevent any sort of recession. Low overhead means business will expand etc.
11.,12,13, All can be prevented with PR. Except for 13 where we sill simply kill him to prevent it from happening.
14. So? Thats not shit.
15. US forces will still be there. I told you that the whole "bases closing" idea is absurd.
16. Nope
17. Nope. Never happen. World War 3 would be a nuclear holocaust, and if it happens announcements will be superfluous.
18.Martial law would be declared if that happend, which for lots of reasons it wont.
19. In college cant be drafted.
20. YouAredumb is safe at home reading a book on Marx.


Since your remaining points are based around the disproved former ones, there is no need for me to refute them. Your ideas are laughable to be honest.
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Posted 5/24/08

drizza wrote:

Thats not a lie thats the truth there was a recent incident in Saudi Arabia where a man was executed for rape my dad just told me about it and he dint have no 4 witness. If you believe you can rape and get away with it thinkimg you need 4 witness then come down to saudi, rape someone and fly back here and let me know what happened. I gaurentee you wont be able to do that.



A conviction normally requires a minimum of four witnesses who directly observed the sexual activity at the same time, or a freely-given confession by the defendant. However, as noted below, the former requirement is not always followed. If the woman is pregnant and either unmarried or divorced, she may be assumed to be guilty, if she is tried under the conservative Maliki Law School form of Sharia



Problems sometimes arise when an unmarried or divorced woman becomes pregnant as a result of a rape. Some Sharia courts do not recognize DNA testing or the evaluation of possible paternity by other blood tests. The case often results in a "she-said, he said" situation. Sometimes, the alleged rapist is found not-guilty because his involvement cannot be proven. But if an unmarried woman becomes pregnant, she can be assumed to be guilty of extra-marital sexual activity and can be executed. If she claims that she was raped and is unable to prove her case, then she will probably receive severe punishment, because she would be assumed guilty of making a false accusation.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul2.htm
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Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:





Things that will happen if/when Saudi Arabia gets invaded by the USA-h4x0rz:
1.US invades Saudi Arabia despite worldwide outrage
2.Widespread condemnation follows
3.Clashes worldwide and rioting,US troops expelled from Iraq and Afghanistan
4.Oil prices go to $200
5.Economic boycott of the USA by the 22 Arab League Nations
6.Pervez Musharaff,Hugo Chavez,Raul Castro lend support to Saudi government
7.Widespread boycott of US products
8.US army bases in the Middle east closed,leaving Iran free to attack at any time.
9.Hate crimes rise worldwide
10.Economic recession.
11.Hardline Islamists sweep polls in all Arab nations riding popular support
12.and those who dont get elected,get to power by bloody coups
13.Moqtada Al Sadr becomes master of Iraq
14.Al Qaida recruit several hundred new supporters
15.Meanwhile,the Taliban overthrew the weak,ineffective Afghanistan government in the absence of US troops
16.Oil prices rise to $500
17.Somewhere between steps 8 to 16,the US formally announces World War 3
18.Immigrants to US carry out varying acts of terror
19.YouAreDumb is drafted nto the Army despite his protests
20.YouAreDumb is killed by militants of hamas and hezbollah,now spread all over the Middle east
21.Crunchyroll is closed down coz Shinji cant afford it anymore
22.Investors such as Talat Bin Abdul Aziz sell off all their stakes in American Companes plunging the country into Depression
23.United Airlines,Citibank and other MNC's announce bankruptcy
24.Rioting affects the united states.the white house issues a shoot to kill order
25.meanwhile,the Kremlin adopts a neutral stance as it provides it's new clients in the Middle East with guns and bombs
26.National Guard deployed across the states
27.Anthrax outbreak in Israel.President Obama/McCain declares "Mission Accomplished"
28.Oil prices rise to $1000
29.China sells nuclear technology to several arab states
30.North Korea joins the war
31.The death toll crosses a million
32.Thousands of splinter groups launch individual attacks against the US and Us interests overwhelming the FBI and CIa's capabilities
33.First large scale biochemical attack on US soil
34.A disgruntled immigrant shoots Former President Bush
35.Rising food prices trigger looting and rioting
36.And Global Warming gets to uncontrollably screwed levels
37.Third world countires ally with the Saudi side,stop exports of Oil and Rice to the US
38.Thousands die of starvation worldwide
39.Luxury goods house Armani joins Versace and Gucci,files for bankruptcy
40.The United nations is officially disbanded
41.All the while,President Obama/McCain insists on staying the course
42.Iran and pakistan launch Nuclear Missiles into Israel,in retaliation for nuclear strikes in Islamabad and tehran
43.Britain announces it's withdrawal from the war effort
44.There are still people in the US who think the war is a good idea.none of them are drafted by the military tho.
45.Energy is now a luxury.
46.The US dollar is now worth lesser than the filipino Peso
47.Unemployment,crime,inflation are at record levels
48.h4x0rz finally gives up his moderate,secular Islamic stance and joins a radical islamist group
49.h4x0rz is very predictably shot dead after a killing spree in a dangerous warzone
50.China & Russia announce Superpower status as does their new allies,the bloc of islamic nations,the United States halts the war effort and the world is plunged into a new Cold War.


Then the presient asks himself "damn,we screwed ourselves pretty bad for Women's rights,didnt we?"

2. PR takes care of this problem as I said. No one is going to be upset with us if we spin it the correct way. If we bring up things like the story in the OP, and bring up some bogus crap about them inflating oil prices no one is going to give a damn.
3. Hahahah thats funny. Who is going to go in and do it? No one is going to send their forces to do that you ignorant fool. No onw has the bases in the middle east to get troops there fast enough to do so for one thing.
4. Doubtful. If the USA controlled Saudi Arabia all we have to do is keep the oil flowing, and no one is going to become upset.
5.Never happen .They depend on the USA. Not only do they need he US markets for their products, they also to a large extent have capital is US dollars. If they do remove their capital from the US, the what happens? They have to put it somewhere. The safe bet is Europe. When that happens interest rates there go down, and now Europe has a lot of extra money, which in turn is sent to eh USA, and China, which will strengthen the dollar, thus helping the US economy as money flows in form Europe.
6. So? They are universally hated on the world stage. This is good for the USA. We simply get on tv, and talk about how these evil men are supporting other evil men. Bring up their human rights abuses. Q.E.D.
7.Not going to happen. The world economy depends on us far to much for that to every happen. You are living in a dream world.
8. Why? No one has the forces to push us out in that region. Why would we close our bases?
9.Doubtful. Most people won't give a damn, since violence is common in the middle east. This prediction has no basis really.
10.Why? That wont happen if the USA channels oil without OPEC in the way. We simply reduce the price of oil, which in turn lowers the overhead for all companies, and thus prices lower which would prevent any sort of recession. Low overhead means business will expand etc.
11.,12,13, All can be prevented with PR. Except for 13 where we sill simply kill him to prevent it from happening.
14. So? Thats not shit.
15. US forces will still be there. I told you that the whole "bases closing" idea is absurd.
16. Nope
17. Nope. Never happen. World War 3 would be a nuclear holocaust, and if it happens announcements will be superfluous.
18.Martial law would be declared if that happend, which for lots of reasons it wont.
19. In college cant be drafted.
20. YouAredumb is safe at home reading a book on Marx.


Since your remaining points are based around the disproved former ones, there is no need for me to refute them. Your ideas are laughable to be honest.



PR is shit if you are going to face several nations,all of them who dont give a shit about amrica or their lives for that matter,as the y are ready to suicide bomb if they have a cause
saudi is the vatican of the middle east.Do you think South America will sit idle if you bombed the vatican and killed the pope?
PR is shit if you kill the pope too btw
You ccant control insurgencies in 2 third world countries (iraq and Afghanistan).How will you handle 22 arab armies,plus armies of nations such as Indonesia and other muslim countries coupled with thousands of splinter groups?
the only muslims who are swayed by your PR are the ones who appear in Fox News.Incase you didnt know,they make 0.20% of the population.
The rest hate America's guts
The oil refineries will be bombed if they fall into US hands
If you do gain control of Saudi's oil,the rest of the world will boycott you anyway
We dont depend on America.We can depend on the 40 or so countries who'll be united with each other.
America on the other hand will have to depend on Britain and Israel,who wont be producing enough food to feed the nation.
Asia's foodstuff will be blocked from exporting to America.Consider yourself screwed and hungry

Violence common in the middle east?have you travelled past your redneck hick town and seen the world? we got only 2 countries with violence in the middle east,iraq and palestine and thats because of US and Israel
And Afghanistan is not in the middle east,if you wanted to raise the point
Feminists will forever celebrate this day "Oooh we got a war for women's rights too....Oooh..."
There are atleast 30 KSA girls here on CR.Ask them if they get beaten up all the time.
Your US tv is only watched by US people.Media boycott in these countries wont give you a chance to talk to others about "these evil men"
hamas swept to power but US,the champion of democracy,blocked the results.Sad.No PR could stop that.
Are you telling me an army stretched by 2 occupations can counter 20+ "bloody coups and hardline governments"?You'll have to recruit every man,woman and child in the states to do that.
No,if you attack Saudi ,its an obligation for every Muslim country to boycott and go to war with the country that attacked them.US will have to leave and Taliban comes back into power.Oh,joy for the women there.
Saying words like superflous doesnt make you intelligent.
And 40+ countries declaring war on the US qualifies as a World War imo
College drafts were pretty common during WW2 and Vietnam wars
YouAreDumb is reading a book on Marx,unfortunately,he does not know how the real world works.

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Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08
The following verses are what the Quran teaches about how Muslims should be when they are not married as it relates to having sex:

17:32. Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils) -- (We shouldn't do things that would even make us become tempted to have sex out if wedlock.)

23: 1 -6
The believers must (eventually) win through,-
Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
Who avoid vain talk;
Who are active in deeds of charity;
Who abstain from sex,
Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame

24.033. Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life…

Rape is a serious crime in Islam punishable in many instances by death. There is a difference in the punishment for rape versus two people commiting adultery or fornication. Here are some Islamic teachings about that:

During the time of the Prophet (saw) punishment was inflicted on the rapist on the solitary evidence of the woman who was raped by him. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allâh has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)



Islamic legal scholars interpret rape as a crime in the category of Hiraba. In ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’, hiraba is described as: ‘a single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women (hatk al ‘arad), killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture.’



Where rape is punished severely and even by death, the punishment for having sex out of wedlock in Islam is different. The ones doing that are punished as described in the Qur'an with being whipped 100 lashes. The Quranic verse about that is as follows:



24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.



So in Islam there is a big difference between rape and two people agreeing to have sex. The punishment for rape is more severe.

This is according to the Quran not that false propoganda once again spewed toyou day by day by the neo cons leading young americans to war for their greedy purposes with lies and cover up.
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Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

drizza wrote:

The following verses are what the Quran teaches about how Muslims should be when they are not married as it relates to having sex:

17:32. Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils) -- (We shouldn't do things that would even make us become tempted to have sex out if wedlock.)

23: 1 -6
The believers must (eventually) win through,-
Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
Who avoid vain talk;
Who are active in deeds of charity;
Who abstain from sex,
Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame

24.033. Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life…

Rape is a serious crime in Islam punishable in many instances by death. There is a difference in the punishment for rape versus two people commiting adultery or fornication. Here are some Islamic teachings about that:

During the time of the Prophet (saw) punishment was inflicted on the rapist on the solitary evidence of the woman who was raped by him. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allâh has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)



Islamic legal scholars interpret rape as a crime in the category of Hiraba. In ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’, hiraba is described as: ‘a single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women (hatk al ‘arad), killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture.’



Where rape is punished severely and even by death, the punishment for having sex out of wedlock in Islam is different. The ones doing that are punished as described in the Qur'an with being whipped 100 lashes. The Quranic verse about that is as follows:



24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.



So in Islam there is a big difference between rape and two people agreeing to have sex. The punishment for rape is more severe.
You missed the entire point. The woman can not prove it was rape under Islamic Sharia law. If she can then yes the man will be punished. You like usual have failed to understand what we are discussing.


This is according to the Quran not that false propoganda once again spewed toyou day by day by the neo cons leading young americans to war for their greedy purposes with lies and cover up.

I provided you to a website that explains it, and it also provides scholarly citations. I would not call that propaganda exactly.
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Posted 5/24/08
That news article was not propaganda. What is propaganda is saying that what is reported in the news if false, that the religious laws respect other beliefs despite prejudice evidence, that women have equal rights despite the legal fact that they cannot drive cars or leave home without a male escort. It is propaganda to say that Saudi Arabia is religiously tolerant despite the fact that by definition, all Saudi citizens must be Muslim (Don't try and tell me it is equal when their government refuses to allow people of other beliefs to have citizenship) Saying a country is peaceful when they have religion police that let girls burn to death because they aren't dressed properly is hardly peaceful. I don't think we are the ones believing into propaganda.
Posted 5/24/08
"Can't we all just get a long" - Rodney King
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Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

h4x0rz wrote:




PR is shit if you are going to face several nations,all of them who dont give a shit about amrica or their lives for that matter,as the y are ready to suicide bomb if they have a cause
saudi is the vatican of the middle east.Do you think South America will sit idle if you bombed the vatican and killed the pope?
Mecca will not be harmed. We will broadcast messages about reclaiming it for "the true peaceful Muslim majority", and "reclaiming Islam for real non extremist Muslims".


PR is shit if you kill the pope too btw
You ccant control insurgencies in 2 third world countries (iraq and Afghanistan).How will you handle 22 arab armies,plus armies of nations such as Indonesia and other muslim countries coupled with thousands of splinter groups?
We won't have to as I have pointed out to you.


the only muslims who are swayed by your PR are the ones who appear in Fox News.Incase you didnt know,they make 0.20% of the population.
I am fairly sure most Muslims in first world country watch tv, read the paper, use the internet(this is true even in very poor areas which makes PR easy), and other forms of media.


The rest hate America's guts
The oil refineries will be bombed if they fall into US hands
The USA clearly has no airforce bases in the middle east to prevent that.


If you do gain control of Saudi's oil,the rest of the world will boycott you anyway
No you won't. Oil gives control of the global economy.


We dont depend on America.We can depend on the 40 or so countries who'll be united with each other.
America on the other hand will have to depend on Britain and Israel,who wont be producing enough food to feed the nation.
If by Britain you mean the EU then yes along with, Japan, Russia, NATO, and a host of other nations that rely on US economic markets (hint thats quite a few).


Asia's foodstuff will be blocked from exporting to America.Consider yourself screwed and hungry
That won't happen, and anyway the breadbasket of the world is the American midwest. We pay people NOT to farm there or we would have to much production.


Violence common in the middle east?have you travelled past your redneck hick town and seen the world?
Um I live in New York city.......



we got only 2 countries with violence in the middle east,iraq and palestine and thats because of US and Israel
You fail to understand that the rest of the world (for the most part anyway) has no idea which countries are the ones which provide trouble. Most Americans could not point out the middle east on a map.



And Afghanistan is not in the middle east,if you wanted to raise the point
Feminists will forever celebrate this day "Oooh we got a war for women's rights too....Oooh..."
There are atleast 30 KSA girls here on CR.Ask them if they get beaten up all the time.
Anecdotal evidence is to small to gain a true sample of the population.



Your US tv is only watched by US people.Media boycott in these countries wont give you a chance to talk to others about "these evil men"
Internet......


hamas swept to power but US,the champion of democracy,blocked the results.Sad.No PR could stop that.
Are you telling me an army stretched by 2 occupations can counter 20+ "bloody coups and hardline governments"?You'll have to recruit every man,woman and child in the states to do that.
It is a good thing that won't be something we have to worry about.


No,if you attack Saudi ,its an obligation for every Muslim country to boycott and go to war with the country that attacked them.US will have to leave and Taliban comes back into power.Oh,joy for the women there.
I doubt it.


Saying words like superflous doesnt make you intelligent.
Correct my 165 IQ does.


And 40+ countries declaring war on the US qualifies as a World War imo
That many nations will not be involved.


College drafts were pretty common during WW2 and Vietnam wars
Um no. Read your US history.



YouAreDumb is reading a book on Marx,unfortunately,he does not know how the real world works.



Marx is a cool name.
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Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:




PR is shit if you are going to face several nations,all of them who dont give a shit about amrica or their lives for that matter,as the y are ready to suicide bomb if they have a cause
saudi is the vatican of the middle east.Do you think South America will sit idle if you bombed the vatican and killed the pope?
Mecca will not be harmed. We will broadcast messages about reclaiming it for "the true peaceful Muslim majority", and "reclaiming Islam for real non extremist Muslims".


PR is shit if you kill the pope too btw
You ccant control insurgencies in 2 third world countries (iraq and Afghanistan).How will you handle 22 arab armies,plus armies of nations such as Indonesia and other muslim countries coupled with thousands of splinter groups?
We won't have to as I have pointed out to you.


the only muslims who are swayed by your PR are the ones who appear in Fox News.Incase you didnt know,they make 0.20% of the population.
I am fairly sure most Muslims in first world country watch tv, read the paper, use the internet(this is true even in very poor areas which makes PR easy), and other forms of media.


The rest hate America's guts
The oil refineries will be bombed if they fall into US hands
The USA clearly has no airforce bases in the middle east to prevent that.


If you do gain control of Saudi's oil,the rest of the world will boycott you anyway
No you won't. Oil gives control of the global economy.


We dont depend on America.We can depend on the 40 or so countries who'll be united with each other.
America on the other hand will have to depend on Britain and Israel,who wont be producing enough food to feed the nation.
If by Britain you mean the EU then yes along with, Japan, Russia, NATO, and a host of other nations that rely on US economic markets (hint thats quite a few).


Asia's foodstuff will be blocked from exporting to America.Consider yourself screwed and hungry
That won't happen, and anyway the breadbasket of the world is the American midwest. We pay people NOT to farm there or we would have to much production.


Violence common in the middle east?have you travelled past your redneck hick town and seen the world?
Um I live in New York city.......



we got only 2 countries with violence in the middle east,iraq and palestine and thats because of US and Israel
You fail to understand that the rest of the world (for the most part anyway) has no idea which countries are the ones which provide trouble. Most Americans could not point out the middle wast on a map.



And Afghanistan is not in the middle east,if you wanted to raise the point
Feminists will forever celebrate this day "Oooh we got a war for women's rights too....Oooh..."
There are atleast 30 KSA girls here on CR.Ask them if they get beaten up all the time.
Anecdotal evidence is to small to gain a true sample of the population.



Your US tv is only watched by US people.Media boycott in these countries wont give you a chance to talk to others about "these evil men"
Internet......


hamas swept to power but US,the champion of democracy,blocked the results.Sad.No PR could stop that.
Are you telling me an army stretched by 2 occupations can counter 20+ "bloody coups and hardline governments"?You'll have to recruit every man,woman and child in the states to do that.
It is a good thing that won't be something we have to worry about.


No,if you attack Saudi ,its an obligation for every Muslim country to boycott and go to war with the country that attacked them.US will have to leave and Taliban comes back into power.Oh,joy for the women there.
I doubt it.


Saying words like superflous doesnt make you intelligent.
Correct my 165 IQ does.


And 40+ countries declaring war on the US qualifies as a World War imo
That many nations will not be involved.


College drafts were pretty common during WW2 and Vietnam wars
Um no. Read your US history.



YouAreDumb is reading a book on Marx,unfortunately,he does not know how the real world works.



Marx is a cool name.


In short,you are going to use propoganda and overthrow a regime you dont like for no apparent reason at all coz you only have the selfish interests of your nation in mind?
You've been reading too much Tom Clancy and Robert Ludlum paperbacks.Even worse,you are inspired more by the villains than the heroes.



FUN FACT OF THE DAY:The Al Saud family are actually more Pro-West and liberal than you think.Since they took over in the 1920's they've reformed Saudi Arabia. In the 1970s howvere,Radical Islamists swept elections(thanks a lot,democracy) and enforced the harsh rules that are prevalent today.The monarchy is now a puppet to the Islamist ministers.
Ironically,the most liberal and developed countries in the Middle East have little or no democratic rule at all.Ex.UAE

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Posted 5/24/08
screw women's rights. im ok with women but women like oprah need to die. i saw this video with her andshe told this women she is wrong for believing in god. oprah is a retard. but back on subject women who think they are better than everyone annoy me. keep da betches and hoes!!!!!
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Posted 5/24/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

There is a growing assumption on the part of members of the US Congress, US-Saudi diplomats, and the American public that the Bush administration is making a “turnaround” in US policy towards the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia because of neo-conservative and domestic interest group pressure. Those opposed to the current administration accuse the White House of maintaining ties to an enemy of America in exchange for lucrative business deals. In contrast, those who support ties with Saudi Arabia maintain that the US has no intention of severing relations with a regional stabilizing force and with long term friends in the House of Saud. Who is correct?

Neither.

The US has not had wholly “friendly” intentions towards the Kingdom for the past 30 years. Any appearance of such is only the visible veneer of real US military policy. Declassified documents reveal that there has been a constant drumbeat to invade Saudi Arabia that has sounded behind the closed doors of our government. The Pentagon, for three decades, has formulated and updated secret plans to seize Saudi oil wells and rid the Kingdom of the ruling House of Saud. This is not only a neo-conservative cabal. Time and again plans have been made for an invasion of Saudi Arabia for a larger purpose: US control of the global oil supply thereby dominating global economic markets.

The most recent wave of charges that Saudi Arabia supports, condones, and aids terrorism signify a secondary and more public attempt to gain support to finally execute a thirty year old plan to occupy Saudi Arabia. Other regional players’ objectives, (securing oil supplies; the rationale of a "war on terror") may add synergy and an unstoppable impetus for an American invasion.

We should also note that Saudi Arabia abuses women , since it is under Sharia law (some of you will remembe the group of the school girls forced back into a burning building since they had no covering). It is an evil, evil, evil, and disgusting nation. We would all be better off if it was gone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

I want the US to take over Saudi Arabia. We move our forces in Iraq, get Israel to help us, and throw in some big old missiles. Then we have control over all that oil, and can stop the flagrant abuse of women. I am speaking of course from the perspective of an American, and I wish for America to retain it's single super power status. In order to do that we need control of those oil fields.


I know it sounds stupid...but, the fact that thousands of men, women and children would be killed seems like a good reason not to invade a country. It strikes me, that the mere fact you would see thousands of innocent people die, shows that you don't give a damn about the Saudi women you keep talking about.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also...

America is mentioned by amnesty international for human rights abuses, see the section on the treatment of female prisoners. Following your logic America must also ''abuse'' women, so lets all invade America and liberate their women!.....

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/United-States-of-America

...However we non xenophobic types are aware that the nasty actions of some members of a community do not damn all the members of that community. Consequently to us non xenophobes one American rapist prison officer, does not make all Americans rapists, just as a few fanatics in Saudi Arabia does not make them all fanatics.

I remember the IRA terrorists, they got some of their funding from ''Irish American'' (whatever that means) supporters, did that make 'America' a supporter of terror? Is America ''an evil evil disgusting nation [sic]''?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm

As for Americas 'superpower' status, alas, I 'fear' the US is in decline, its China's turn now! perhaps the state will continue the tradition of all superpowers; to exploit the weak, to interfere in every other countries business and to intimidate or destroy 'enemy threats' with violence, they have got a hard act to follow.

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Posted 5/24/08 , edited 5/24/08

Nanban wrote:



I know it sounds stupid...but, the fact that thousands of men, women and children would be killed seems like a good reason not to invade a country. It strikes me, that the mere fact you would see thousands of innocent people die, shows that you don't give a damn about the Saudi women you keep talking about.
No I do. I freely admit the main reason I would like to see us invade, however, is to gain control of their oil supply. People die when you stand up for what is right sometimes. WW2 is a perfect example of this. Appeasement of Hitler sounded good, but by allowing his evil to fester they eventually caused the resulting conflict to be much larger than it had to have been.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also...

America is mentioned by amnesty international for human rights abuses, see the section on the treatment of female prisoners. Following your logic America must also ''abuse'' women, so lets all invade America and liberate their women!.....

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/United-States-of-America

...However we non xenophobic types are aware that the nasty actions of some members of a community do not damn all the members of that community. Consequently to us non xenophobes one American rapist prison officer, does not make all Americans rapists, just as a few fanatics in Saudi Arabia does not make them all fanatics.
Their nation is under Sharia law. That is not just "a few fanatics". Read the article I link to in my OP, and research the power of their religious police force.



I remember the IRA terrorists, they got some of their funding from ''Irish American'' (whatever that means) supporters, did that make 'America' a supporter of terror? Is America ''an evil evil disgusting nation [sic]''?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm
If the government of the nation does not condone the actions, then no. If they did, but no longer do so, the the same logic applies. Saudi Arabia is in no danger of getting rid of their religious police force in the near future.


As for Americas 'superpower' status, alas, I 'fear' the US is in decline, its China's turn now! perhaps the state will continue the tradition of all superpowers; to exploit the weak, to interfere in every other countries business and to intimidate or destroy 'enemy threats' with violence, they have got a hard act to follow.



Is that so? I would argue that the size of nation in this age matters little. Nuclear weapons have ended that need for a large army in a total war. Economic power is the way that nations will control the future of the world, and the oil provided by Saudi Arabia is very useful in this regard.
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