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Democracy: Is this the best we have?
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24 / M / In his very own h...
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Posted 3/25/07
^ Communism does not have to ignore the self. Individuality can be an important part of communism. There will, though, always be some "individuals" who do not act altruistically, and try to live purely for themselves.
Was everyone brought up to be altruistic then we could have individuals within a communist society. As it is, some people will always want things for themselves, so all "communist" societies so far have had to prevent "individuality".
N.B. do not confuse China with communism
Posted 3/25/07
I think so far Democracy has given the best standard of living for the majority of people, at least thats how I would look at it as being successful. If we ignore ideology for the moment and look at the practicalities of whats actually happened in the last century or so. Ive only studied modern world history, so ive skimmed through it meaning my knowledgde is kinda limited.

Anyways, alternatives to democracy have been dictatorships of either communism or fascism or variations on democracy. Ideally communism sounds good, but it relies too much on human character, which doesnt really have a great track record... I dont think there has ever been a truly communist country so far. Like in Russia, monarchy wasnt working so it was overthrown, short period of democracy turns into 'communism', but Lenin out of necessity creates the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. All communist nations turn into dictatorships with personality cults, but then that kinda takes away the point of being communist.

Same with fascism, monarchy didnt work so because of peoples poor living conditions, government gets changed to the opposite extremes. Peoples living conditions then suffered under these governments eg. soviet russia and china, for the sake of a greater purpose. Democracy works because it lets people be selfish. When people vote they are thinking whats better for them, not how can i make this country great. So this improves living standards of the majority. Free speech and other liberties that come with democracy are a tool for the majority to use to improve their own lives.

But then again, since democracy relies on the selfish majority, the little guy gets screwed over every time. so its not perfect, but i prefer democracy to anarchy. Im just talking about the extremes here, I dont know what the situation is like in for example modern china which has a more watered down version of communism thatn 50 years ago. Also scale makes democracy harder, it works pretty well in a country like denmark with only 5 million people, but in a country as big as the US, you could never make everyone happy.
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Posted 3/25/07
Socialism is , in my opinion the best way .. or hmm.. ok communism is good, but never worked because of some kind of dictatorship ..you know... it always ended in a messed up system..
The best would be to mix up democracy ( human rights) and communism, that all get work... but this can never be real, because of the companies and so on..privat ownership only cause trouble and so on, too
I know, I write some confusing things but I can't find words to write it in english
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24 / M / Jersey
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Posted 3/25/07
The problem with socialism is because that it goes against human nature. People are naturally greedy. A classless system will never work out because of the pride we feel in gaining power and amassing wealth. A utopian society that socialism envisions is impossible. Everyone has feelings of jealousy, superiority and greed which will ultimately undo the system.

Personally when I work, I like the feeling of earning money and spending it for myself. It is because I earned for it. The goal of getting that wealth serves as the mechanism to strive and improve. With socialism, we risk giving up that

The best alternative I think is the social democracy that Sweden has. I mean look at it, it's a medium sized country that hasn't had any problems within the last century to my understanding. If we can pull that off, I think it would be great.
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25 / M / lazing in England
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Posted 3/25/07
^ I deleted my half-finished post in favour of yours cos yours is much more concise and in tune with what I wanted to say.
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24 / M
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Posted 3/25/07
Well we study history for things like this. Historically speaking we can see that Communism does not work. Although I’ve only scrapped over the topic of America’s foundation, as my personal specialty in history is the study of the antiquity of Ancient Greece, I do recall learning quite a bit about how the early settlers attempted to use communism in their little towns. It failed miserably. This is because in this word it is impossible to instill or create a Utopian world. Not everybody is going to pitch into a government, and thus some people are going to getting out of the work while reaping the benefits that everyone else has sowed through their hard work.

Communism is a good concept, but unfortunately it cannot be counted on in large scale. The next issue I have with Communism is that it does not leave room for open mindedness or education. It also sacrifices the individuals aspirations and dreams for the sake of the nation. That’s fascism. (Then again there is similarities to this in Democracy.)

Let me explain those last statements. I one day wish to be a writer. I’m gifted at that, and that alone. I’ve been practicing since I was 8 or 9. But how many novelists does a nation need? Therefore, I would be set to some form of labor in which better boosted the economy. Unless of course I just slacked off and freeloaded. Then again, people free load off of welfare in our current government soo…

For the open minded part I have to note that large scale communism is a very precarious thing. In order to keep your people acting like the mindless workers, servile workforces that the inevitably become, you have to keep their minds set on the nations goals and not their own. This is an attempt to rob people of their individuality. Unfortunately it is Human nature to rebel. Therefore, what most communistic leaders end up doing is keeping their peoples ignorant of the concepts that would lead them to became displease with their current situation of life. Just look at Northern Korea.

Socialism fails because it places equity in a position of too much importance. It ignore the concept of supply and demand. It also, just as communism does, takes away the air of competition that has been the major boost of the American economy. Take for example, the sky scrapers in New York. I forgot which two companies, (but I think they were both car companies that still exist today.) both reached for the stars. Both dreamed of creating the worlds largest sky-scraper. So the race was on! They both added-and-added onto their buildings in the hopes to out play the other side. This created masses of jobs and thus attracted a great boost of immigrants in need of work. (Just incase your curious the winner of the competition tricked the other side into thinking they were done. The latter side finished their building only a small bit larger than the former‘s. The former then added on a large needle to add height to their building.)

A competitive nature has been the fuel that pushes American citizens for centuries. Or well, at least century. Again, not my area of expertise.

In short what I am saying is this: I feel that history has proven Communism and socialism to be ineffective. I agree with some of what you said, but ultimately think it is just another idealistic philosophy and system that will inevitably fail on large scale because it is positively impossible to create a Utopian civilization.

All this (except for the facts that I brought up of course.) Is naturally my opinion.
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Posted 3/25/07
Oh, Jam, Sweden has not had any problems because unlike America (I'm a very loyal American, so don't think that I'm dissing the U.S) they don't put their nose where it does not belong. Also, because of nationalism and the pride inspired by the "against all odds victory" that created our nation, many Americans have become quite arrogant. They go around and preach what -they- consider to be the "all American philosophy" and make us look like utter fools. Ultimately they tick people off!

However, Sweden does have a pretty kewl system as far as I understand. I’m not too educated in this matter so I wont jump into it. Though, I would like to one day visit Sweden. Other than the pretties gals that I’m told live there I would also like to share in Swedish culture and the air of peace that must reign in such a war free nation! It would be wonderful! I think anyway… Then again, I’m nothing more than an arrogant and naïve 16 year old punk with a big mouth and wide vocabulary.
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24 / M / Body in NY Mind i...
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Posted 5/16/07

BasouKazuma wrote:

On paper, Communism is a great system. The problem is that humans are to corrupt to work harmoniously as would be needed for Communism to work.
Democracy caters to our human imperfections which is why it is so successful.


Well human corruption will most likely never change. But looking back on history communism is usually found in poor (3rd world) countries. If it was based on a 3 officials as rulers it possibly might work out. But it has the perks of getting things done with no hesitation of congressional reps.

edited: another reason its supposedly successful is the fact it praises conformism. SO instead of the individual ideas (such as democracy), a single idea sticks.
(bring topics such as this back, enough of peoples simple minded banter)

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26 / M / vegass
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Posted 5/16/07
just an interesting fact: India boasts itself to be the most democratic nation in the world and many agree. the United States has a republic, or a representative democracy. A true democracy would be too slow to work on a scale such as most modern countries. As far as applying the idea to other countries, such as the middle east and china, it wouldnt work. First of all, the reason our republic works is because of the Constitution and federalism. Things like seperation of church and state is nearly impossible in places like the middle east, seeing as everyone is fighting for their right to rule the holy land and what not. China is one of the oldest countries in the world. Most, not all, accept the communist rule there. i think it was sixty minutes or something from CNN when they interviewed miners from china. this job pays like less than a dollar a week and its hard dangerous labor. what did the miners say? they love it, knowing they are helping their country. changing the way of government there to a democracy or a republic probably wont work.

communism is a great idea, as many have said, on paper. but having a one party system makes it really easy for those in power to stay in power. its not that communism itself is evil, more like the peole that doesnt use it properly are evil.

k ranting over. frankly, i believe India and the United States were exceptions. Im under the belief that for democracy to flourish in a country, any record or memory of the old government, whether a dictatorship or a monarchy, has to be erased. the country has to start fresh without intervention from other countries and of course have the CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED for the new government.
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Posted 5/16/07
(hasn't been with cr long enough to know if topics like these die quickly... but its interesting)

The fundamental and founding philosophies of America I will proudly boast. It was designed as a true representative democracy, catering to all our conflicting materialistic and moralistic ideals. However, I think the current electoral system is increasingly perverting the balance. America's enormous power and influence in the world adds to the increasingly dictatorial authority of the President. Not that it was ever perfect, but how the hell did we end up with Bush for 8 years? But I digress...

America's current electoral system reinforces the collatoral two-party system and the successive power of incumbents. The federal governement continues to drain power away from the people and states through the commerce clause and is becoming more a centralist government everyday*...

As for Democracy being the best form of government, it doesn't really matter. The names of the government that is....whether Democracy or Republic or Socialism or Communism...matters less than the actual innerworkings and people on the top underneath its labels. Autocracy can be altered to a degree that it resembles a Democracy just as a Democracy can mutate into autocracy.

(*if anyone wants this clarified, i can go & dig up my gov notes and get some more concrete evidence... too lazy right now XD)
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22 / M / Moving around or...
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Posted 5/16/07
We can always get a new form of government, the best we can get would be an Autocratic Imperialist Monarchy under me as head of the universe forever.

Democracy and communism and etc., too many corrupt politicians. Also, the US is too seperated with its 50 states things, each ones with different laws.
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26 / M / vegass
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Posted 5/16/07

FatedEmperor wrote:

Also, the US is too seperated with its 50 states things, each ones with different laws.


yea but by allowing the states to run themselves under the federal government allows flexibilty within the country. i dont mean to sound like im so pro american but i am a fan of federalism and i think its one of the reasons the US is a success. it allows to "cater to many different interests" as some of you have said.
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Posted 5/16/07
^methinks so too
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25 / M / Where you are not...
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Posted 5/16/07
I believe the issue is with the people, not the government or federal system...

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26 / M / vegass
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Posted 5/16/07

Darknesshade wrote:

I believe the issue is with the people, not the government or federal system...



true, but the initial question was is democracy applicable in other places of the world. now if we take the people into consideration (who will run the government and who will be governed), then in most many cases..no democracy is a no go.
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