Should everyone get to go to heaven ?
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Posted 6/8/08 , edited 6/8/08
Most good people will go to hell. Or, at least that is what Christians and Muslims seem to believe if they think people who do not follow their religions will be good. My question is why the thought of all those people in hell does not bother them, and I also want to know if they think everyone should get to go to heaven.

I have a theory about why most do not wish for that to happen.

I think part of this has to do with the need to feel vindicated. Some (perhaps many or even most) Christians feel that in this life, they've gotten a bad lot. (And often times, it seems that they have.) These Christians may feel that they're unattractive or unsuccessful or unappreciated according to "worldly" standards. However, they've found a way to get beyond all of that. They've found a way to feel "successful" as "spiritually wise" people. They fancy themselves as experts on what the Bible really says and what it really means. They see themselves as wise leaders, who are capable of advising others. Unfortunately, not everyone recognizes the Christian's level of spiritual maturity and wisdom, and for that reason, the Christian understands that those people need to be punished and punished severely!

In heaven, the Christian can dream about how one day all of the rejection he has experienced in this life is going to be instantly transformed into love, acceptance, and appreciation from others. In this life, the Christian may live in a cockroach infested trailer park, but in heaven--he's going to live in a grand mansion in the sky. In this life, he may work at a job he hates, but in heaven, he'll be buddies--colleagues even--with God himself.

Yes, in heaven, all the people who failed to recognize just how great, smart, pure, and wise the Christian was in this life will get what they have coming to them: Endless, Conscious, Unspeakable Suffering!!!!

If it weren't for the Christian's desperate need to believe that one day he will at last belong to a part of an elite population in heaven, then why would he actually be able to find hope in the thought of spending eternity in heaven, where behind the curtain the object of his worship is eternally tormenting people in hell. Sure, Christians will often say that the thought of people suffering forever in hell makes them sad. However, if that thought really made them sad, then I think they might seriously question the goodness of a God who planned to subject people to just that sort of existence. If the thought of people suffering forever in hell really made them sad, then I don't think they'd be able to continue on finding hope in the thought of a "happy existence" that included living in a state of ignorant and/or ambivalent oblivion to what God was doing to people they knew and loved in this life.

I've asked Christians many times how they would feel if they found out that God was going to let everyone in to heaven. I will say that I have encountered some loving, good-hearted Christians who said that they would be thrilled to death if that were the case. Most Christians, however, are offended by the very suggestion, saying that if God let everyone into heaven, he'd be breaking his promise to them. Promise of what? Well, apparently the promise of vindication, the promise that one day, they'll belong to some sort of exclusive club. The promise that one day, all those people who made them feel inferior in this life will get exactly what they have coming to them. In reality, it isn't God who thinks that people who reject him or don't believe in him deserve to be eternally tormented. It's the Christian who believes this.

The dream of revenge and personal vindication. I think that in many cases, that's what "heaven" is for.
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Posted 6/8/08 , edited 6/8/08
Wow... CR really doesn't need anymore Christian bashing threads. But I will offer my two cents...

First of all, we (Christians) do believe that good people go to hell. We believe everyone but Christians go to hell. However, we believe that it isn't because God is mean or he picks favorites, we believe that people go to hell because they have sin. Christians have sin, and non Christians have sin, everyone has it. God is a perfect and Holy Being, He cannot allow sin into his presence (and God's presence is in heaven) God desires everyone to be saved. Our sins can only be forgiven through the Blood of Christ.

You categorize all Christians as being these depressed people with the hopes that one day, because they are a depressed Christian, that they can gratify themselves in being right and knowing that everyone who treated them wrongly is in hell. Honestly, most Christians I know lived very happy (as in they have money and what they want) lives. And a lot of people are "Christian" because they want to use God as a gift giving person in the sky (The reason I became atheist in my past, was because I was angry with God)

We want everyone in heaven, a lot of Christians actually do care about peoples' souls. Why do you think we have missionaries and evangelists? I have been on mission trips to spread the gospel. It is not the desire of the typical Christian to live and know that one day all the wicked people will burn in hell because the oppressed us. We desire everyone in heaven, and we are commanded by Jesus to "Go and make disciples of all nations." We are commanded to love everyone and to even pray for our enemies. If a Christian's satisfaction is in knowing his enemies will be in hell, then that Christian is sinning and breaking commandments.

Honestly, if it came to pass that everyone was going to heaven. I would be thrilled! But the truth is, is that that is not a reality. Sin exists in this world, and it separates us from God.
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Posted 6/8/08

digs wrote:

Wow... CR really doesn't need anymore Christian bashing threads. But I will offer my two cents...

First of all, we (Christians) do believe that good people go to hell. We believe everyone but Christians go to hell. However, we believe that it isn't because God is mean or he picks favorites, we believe that people go to hell because they have sin. Christians have sin, and non Christians have sin, everyone has it. God is a perfect and Holy Being, He cannot allow sin into his presence (and God's presence is in heaven) God desires everyone to be saved. Our sins can only be forgiven through the Blood of Christ.
Yes, Digs I am familiar with this idea. I am not saying that this is not the doctrine of Christianity; I am speaking here of the view mist Christians have.




You categorize all Christians as being these depressed people with the hopes that one day, because they are a depressed Christian, that they can gratify themselves in being right and knowing that everyone who treated them wrongly is in hell. Honestly, most Christians I know lived very happy (as in they have money and what they want) lives. And a lot of people are "Christian" because they want to use God as a gift giving person in the sky (The reason I became atheist in my past, was because I was angry with God)
Not all of them Digs, just a fairly large number. I am speaking from my own experience of course, and yours may have been different. It is also not just leading a crappy life-it is the need to feel like you are better, special, and somehow more worthy than others are.



We want everyone in heaven, a lot of Christians actually do care about peoples' souls. Why do you think we have missionaries and evangelists? I have been on mission trips to spread the gospel. It is not the desire of the typical Christian to live and know that one day all the wicked people will burn in hell because the oppressed us. We desire everyone in heaven, and we are commanded by Jesus to "Go and make disciples of all nations." We are commanded to love everyone and to even pray for our enemies. If a Christian's satisfaction is in knowing his enemies will be in hell, then that Christian is sinning and breaking commandments.

Honestly, if it came to pass that everyone was going to heaven. I would be thrilled! But the truth is, is that that is not a reality. Sin exists in this world, and it separates us from God.

If you really cared you would question the morality of god sending these good people to hell. I am sorry Digs but this does not seem right to me. I could never say I care about someone burning in hell forever, and then go on to say the being that did it is perfectly good. If you really gave a damn the thought of being in heaven while they burned would bother you. It did me. I used to have nightmares about my atheist friends burning in hell. If you care wonderful, but I feel as if you are just giving lip service to those people, while you as a good Chrisitan will never think of them again after you are safely in heaven with god.
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Posted 6/8/08
hmm idk, jesus died on the cross for us and a ton of ppl dont even care about it. People are very sinfull and bad these days. People dont believe in god as much as they use to. God put us on earth to test to see if we are worthy of going back to heaven and if some dont believe in him or sin then they may not go to the high kingdom god lives in. the people who do believe and repented for their sins will go there and the people who did sin will go to a lower kingdom.
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Posted 6/9/08
Youaredumb: don't forget that according to some theories, mostly based in Jewish scriptures, people will be realeased from hell (Ezra, I think) and even participate in heaven. All you are saying is thoroghly gone through in this scripture. You are just repeating what is said there, except for exchanging jews with christians, except for the more "offensive" stuff of course. Might as well refer people to Ezra 4(I think). The promise is what is called "The new pact"- theory.

As for god being good, there is confusion. God is not good in a humnaitarian way. Strictly speaking, he is not good as we define it. God is righteous. The good/evil- thing is a simplification. It is really Righteous and Sinful. On another day: on the day of judgement people will realize the righetousness, this is part of the torment in hell, but also why the people in heaven will not grieve for family and friends in hell. Which is why, in a to me very bizarre description, people in hell is exclaiming god's righteousness while angels are torturing them in Peter's apocalypse. And it hardly matters how much christians care about the souls in hell. What are they supposed to do with that care, plan a liberation? Ezra 4th book should give you some answers. I suggest you read it. Ezra is there concerned about the same you are, and raises the questions to god. I do not know any scripture with more concern for the sinner and people burning in hell.

digs: It takes more than not to have sinned. You need true righetousness and worship and obedience to go to heaven. It is enough not to believe to go to hell. You need really need to have sinned. Ever.
Where do you take it, that god wants everyone to be saved? According to Ezra 4 again, god doesn't. However, if you will direct me to a scripture, I can change my mind. Again, having people burnig in hell, is part of the righetousness and realization of it. It is part of justice. It is not breaking acommandment, it is part of heaven's glory and hell's torment. According to scriptures, you will rejoice.
How, by the way, do you explain that only people of jewish lineage will be fighting for god in the last days? Don't you really believe in the salvation of the jews. If only 55000 Jews will fight, everyone else against them, it must mean that at least that day, the majority of christians are sinful or following wrong teachings.

katorule: I know no historiacl evidence for Jesus' existence, and certainly none for god. Peopel are not more sinful now, than before. The absence of belief, is no paralell to sinfulness. People have killed for god. People believe more in humanitarian principles than ever. Are we that bad? I think not. Again: you don't need to sin to go to hell. Also we are the fruit of a passionate moment, not put directly unto earth by god's decision.
Posted 6/9/08 , edited 6/9/08
such a fucking long first post is just sooo off putting!!! didnt bother to read it all!
i think dis thread is soooo fucking stupid! prove dat 'heaven' exist in the first place.
even if it does exist, where da fuck is it? dnt say it's up in the sky, coz i've been up there several times (by aeroplane of course!) and i didnt see shit! of course it will nice to know heaven does exist so i wnt be scared of dyin, u get me?
Posted 6/9/08 , edited 6/9/08
Well heaven and hell cannot be proven by science. However it mainly depends on people's believe. Anyway this should be discussed here

Heaven
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-3277/Heaven.html

Your thread is almost liked a fallen part of that thread

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