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knowledge is unknowable
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24 / M
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Posted 6/28/08
all knowledge is unknowable.
i will explain.
all knowledge is based on information
for information to be classed as knowledge and not just belief, we must know it is true
there is no way of knowing if any information is true or false, therefore all knowledge is actualy belief.

VV by excalion who has worded it alot better lolz
"In order to have knowledge, we must have a reliable means of obtaining it. In order for a means to be reliable, it has to reliably produce the correct result. In order for us to distinguish the validity of the result, we must be able to distinguish the correct from the incorrect, and which by definition is a process that requires knowledge."

and heres the wiki article about it V
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology#Acquiring_knowledge

we obtain information through our senses, we have no way of knowing if this information is correct. we dont even know if we have senses, this could actualy all be a dream ect. we could be something completely different from what we think we are.

even tho the statement; all knowledge is unknowable, is obviously paradoxal, it still stands as the only thing i can be sure of.
^ that was also paradoxal lolz
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Posted 6/28/08

simo2332 wrote:

for information to be classed as knowledge and not just belief, we must know it is true
there is no way of knowing if any information is true or false, therefore all knowledge is actualy belief.


Any proof that there's no way to know that information is false or true?

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Posted 6/28/08

NiNaBoN wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

for information to be classed as knowledge and not just belief, we must know it is true
there is no way of knowing if any information is true or false, therefore all knowledge is actualy belief.


Any proof that there's no way to know that information is false or true?




if there was proof then the statement would be incorrect
Posted 6/28/08
Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false
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26 / M / Animalia
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Posted 6/28/08
I think the person who said that was on drugs.
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Posted 6/28/08

helena91 wrote:

Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false


lolz, read it till you understand it.
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Posted 6/28/08

simo2332 wrote:


NiNaBoN wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

for information to be classed as knowledge and not just belief, we must know it is true
there is no way of knowing if any information is true or false, therefore all knowledge is actualy belief.


Any proof that there's no way to know that information is false or true?




if there was proof then the statement would be incorrect


Meaning that your statement was wrong.

You can't just say that there's no way of knowing that information is true or false without having a structured proof. You have to ''appuyer'' (f=== I don't know the word in english) your opinion. I'll edit later when I find the right word.
Posted 6/28/08

simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:

Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false


lolz, read it till you understand it.


No offence, but its kinda hard to understand with really bad grammar and punctuation, this really should be put in the extended
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Posted 6/28/08

NiNaBoN wrote:


simo2332 wrote:


NiNaBoN wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

for information to be classed as knowledge and not just belief, we must know it is true
there is no way of knowing if any information is true or false, therefore all knowledge is actualy belief.


Any proof that there's no way to know that information is false or true?




if there was proof then the statement would be incorrect


Meaning that your statement was wrong.

You can't just say that there's no way of knowing that information is true or false without having a structured proof. You have to ''appuyer'' (f=== I don't know the word in english) your opinion. I'll edit later when I find the right word.



the statment was about how there is no truth, just belief.
it uses logic and reason, it does not need evidence
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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 6/28/08 , edited 6/28/08
Sounds like Descartes Universal Methodical Doubt. The question shouldn't lie on simply delineating the limit of human reason; rather, understanding the meaning in living an otherwise unverifiable existence in the face of shame and/or doubt. Does it mean anything to you, now, knowing that knowledge, as far as the conceptual frame work of one's beliefs, is something that is potentially fallible?

I believe the problem with doubters like Descartes (initially) is that probing on something as unfruitful as the validity of existence is meaningless in the face of the fact of the matter that we do, indeed, exist and are components of a reality that demands our response as an embodied existence. Therefore, though knowledge be "unknowable", as you may so speak, it is undoubtedly "indispensable", as it is the very framework that holds together the very integrity of the embodied human in the world ~ not simply as an animal, but as a human species, as a whole.

So it's not a question of us not understanding what knowledge is ~ that's already past the point. The fact of the matter is that we do have knowledge, that it is, indeed, an experienced reality, and that this experienced reality is far more worth reflecting upon then simply trying to decide whether or not we are being lied to by an existence that is nothing more than "unreal". But simple primary reflection will tell you that you are real, and that your existence and experiences are "real".

It is this very fact that human knowledge is so limited that we are pushed to pursue it. I hope you don't make this statement a dead end, whatever it is you're trying to push forward by introducing this concept. Simply knowing the paradox of knowledge (or of human existence, rather) is still very shallow, and means nothing if you don't, at the very least, apply it and analyze it to understand what it has to say on your life.


And for the sake of discussion, I'm moving this thread to the ED section.
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Posted 6/28/08

helena91 wrote:


simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:

Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false


lolz, read it till you understand it.


No offence, but its kinda hard to understand with really bad grammar and punctuation, this really should be put in the extended



i think its pretty general tbh, who to say its "extended discussion"?
Posted 6/28/08

simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:


simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:

Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false


lolz, read it till you understand it.


No offence, but its kinda hard to understand with really bad grammar and punctuation, this really should be put in the extended



i think its pretty general tbh, who to say its "extended discussion"?


Mods did as they moved it
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24 / F / CALIFORNIA!!!!
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Posted 6/28/08
along that line of thinking...
there is no true or false. .,
npl. truths (trūTHz, trūths).
1)Conformity to fact or actuality.
2)A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3)Sincerity; integrity.
4)Fidelity to an original or standard.
5) a.Reality; actuality.
b.often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
http://www.answers.com/topic/truth
look at definition 2. What we accept as truth is only that --what we accept. There is no truth outside of what we call true. it doesn't matter if it what we think is the truth really is or is not the "truth" all that matters is that we believe in it. That gives it its power.
Reality and facts are just truths that most of the world believes, The high number of people believing it makes us think that it must be reality. Reality, truth, everything is dependent on our belief that it is. Like if for some reason the entire human race stopped accepting mars as real, it would not matter if there really is a chunk of rock or whatever floating out in space. the fact would be, mars would not exist.
We can only observe a small part of reality, but that small part is the only reality because thats what we believe.
knowledge is actually belief. But everything is actually belief. There is no truth, so even though knowledge is unknowable, there is no knowing, just what we believe.
i dont think that made sense. but i tried. sorry lol
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Posted 6/28/08

helena91 wrote:


simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:


simo2332 wrote:


helena91 wrote:

Number one this thread should be in the extended discussion
Knowledge is gained by experience but there is ways and means to to test if things aretrue so technically your statement is false


lolz, read it till you understand it.


No offence, but its kinda hard to understand with really bad grammar and punctuation, this really should be put in the extended



i think its pretty general tbh, who to say its "extended discussion"?


Mods did as they moved it


im thinking of a animal with four legs, a tail and a extremly annoying bark, guess what it is.
Posted 6/28/08

simo2332 wrote:

im thinking of a animal with four legs, a tail and a extremly annoying bark, guess what it is.


you know what i could not care less what you think,
but it is very immature to make needless comments like that
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