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China and democracy
16184 cr points
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F / In my fantasies.
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Posted 7/9/08 , edited 7/9/08
since china was a communist for a very long time, I think they should take their time on slowly turning to be a democrat country. I also believe that they shouldnt rush things due to some people still prefer the old traditions and those people who isnt used to the new system might cause problems within the country. But when the time come when they are able to become a democrat country, it could be pretty succesful. It will cause the illiterate population to learn more things and stand better chance in the current society and who knows, "made in china" products might increase its quality?
3929 cr points
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19 / F / My body lives in...
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Posted 7/11/08

Taelin wrote:

Yes, democracy is good, but some countries aren't ready for it, including China. So, stop whining about the CCP (who are doing an exceptional job of reforming and opening up China) and their 'dictatorial' rule.

First of all, a lot of China's population are illiterate. Not being able to read does pose a threat to voting, right? Also, people can be bribed to vote for a certain person, because they need money.

China has been under imperial rule for 4000 years. It's hard to change from absolute rule to complete freedom. Communism is a stepping stone from imperialism to democracy. It takes time to change things, and China has a lot of people (1.3 billion aprox.). The older generations still hold on to the old traditions, so the government must take things slowly before China is ready for a democracy.

If China was a democracy now, chaos would be the result. You all saw what happened to Russia.

Any other points?


Would it be better to promote illiteracy to the people to sustain the CCP doctrine?
463 cr points
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25 / F / Paris
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Posted 7/11/08 , edited 7/11/08

h4x0rz wrote:

I don't know. Hong Kong is doing fine. So is Taiwan.


Ahah, the funniest comment I've ever read here. How many inhabitants have Honk kong and Taiwan? Heh? How many inhabitants has China?
Scientist Moderator
digs 
38050 cr points
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24 / M
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Posted 7/11/08
Hong Kong and Taiwan both have stronger local governments than mainland China. Taiwan even declares self independence. China doesn't need to "take things slowly." America went strait from being in an oppressive monarchy to becoming the worlds most powerful nation on earth. By taking it slowly, you are saying that you should let the already power hungry communist party control the process of becoming democratic. The people should be the ones in charge, the people should be the ones who write up a constitution and force the government to obey by their laws and standards like the do in other democracies. I think that the Chinese leaders should be put in jail for human rights violations, but that's just me.
463 cr points
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25 / F / Paris
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Posted 7/11/08 , edited 7/11/08

digs wrote:

Hong Kong and Taiwan both have stronger local governments than mainland China. Taiwan even declares self independence.


Do you know well Chinese local governments? I don't think so.


digs wrote:
China doesn't need to "take things slowly." America went strait from being in an oppressive monarchy to becoming the worlds most powerful nation on earth.


Do not compare China and the USA. They are so different, their histories are different too. How many decades America needed to become the most powerful nation? (and I really hope it will change in the future)



digs wrote:
By taking it slowly, you are saying that you should let the already power hungry communist party control the process of becoming democratic. The people should be the ones in charge, the people should be the ones who write up a constitution and force the government to obey by their laws and standards like the do in other democracies. I think that the Chinese leaders should be put in jail for human rights violations


NO. The people should FIRST go to school, become litterate, find a good job and become wealthier. Chinese leaders should be put in jail? You do not even make the difference between leaders of local and central government! WTF? I know that there are problems with human rights (Tibet, corruption, Tian an men etc)but thanks to the same government, more than 100 million people have reached some correct standards of living. What you and the people from some Western countries (I totally know their mentality, I'm from France) call "human rights" has an other meaning for the Chinese : human rights= a good job, a good education, a good health etc. And the policy of the Chinese central government is in this way. Because the leaders want China to be stable. But I totally acknowledge that China has many severe issues about human rights. But China is NOT ONLY what the fucking Western media are telling about it.


digs wrote:
but that's just me.

This is lame. As if you were too coward to affirm your own previous words.
18055 cr points
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22 / F / New Zealand
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Posted 7/11/08
they are illiterate because they dont have the money for that sort of education, i know because my grandma is
and she's lived a horribly tough life, shes been working basically since she started walking because her parents
died when she was 2 and there's many people that had similar situations. I think people need to give China time,
things just dont change overnight.
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32 / M / california
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Posted 7/11/08

Taelin wrote:

h4x0rz wrote:

Hong kong signed a 100 year agreement with Britain to stay with democracy.
And Taiwan is a breakaway republic.


Taiwan is still part of China; the UN does not recognize Taiwan as an independent country yet.


It used to recognize Taiwan as a nation until the people's republic of china pressured the UN not to recognize them. Taiwan was founded by enemies of the PRC and has a military set up just in case mainland china tries to invade them, so I would definitely consider them an independent nation. Of course this a whole other topic.
1385 cr points
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F / Not telling...
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Posted 7/11/08
Chinese people are NOT illiterate!! if you have been to China you would realize that it's just as developed as the U.S. and that there standards of education are higher than that in America. Also,in the next few years China will be the top leading economy as researchers say. Though some people are poor in the more rural area the majority of the population are literate and not poor. Heck my grandparents own like 2-3 houses in China. Also, China is not pure communism and the goverment isn't really that bad. Don't forget that China has a population of 1.33 billlion so it's quite difficult to make a sudden change in goverment.
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25 / M / Bangalore,India
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Posted 7/16/08 , edited 7/16/08

zuzuzuzuzuzu wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:

I don't know. Hong Kong is doing fine. So is Taiwan.


Ahah, the funniest comment I've ever read here. How many inhabitants have Honk kong and Taiwan? Heh? How many inhabitants has China?


Population is not an indicator of prosperity. Can you honestly say that India is a more developed nation than the USA?
2874 cr points
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F / Stuck between sle...
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Posted 7/17/08 , edited 7/17/08
The People's Republic of China...I don't think so...the people don't even have a voice, I honestly don't understand how it functions in this day and age...seriously I'm surprised they got the Olympics with all the human rights issues...and with events like the massacre of tiananmen square happening only decades ago that just freaks me out
463 cr points
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25 / F / Paris
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Posted 7/17/08 , edited 7/17/08

h4x0rz wrote:


zuzuzuzuzuzu wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:

I don't know. Hong Kong is doing fine. So is Taiwan.


Ahah, the funniest comment I've ever read here. How many inhabitants have Honk kong and Taiwan? Heh? How many inhabitants has China?


Population is not an indicator of prosperity. Can you honestly say that India is a more developed nation than the USA?


WTF? Are you stupid? Did I say something about economic prosperity? This thread is about China and DEMOCRACY. What I meant is : it's always sooooooooooooooo much more difficult to instaure an EFFICIENT democracy in a BIG country than in some little countries like Taiwan. India is a democracy, but honestly, is it EFFICIENT? (I'm not saying India should not be a democracy, just that setting an efficient democracy in big developping countries is really not easy).

However, I will answer you: population is not an indicator of prosperity, but population CAN be ONE OF thefactors of prosperity.
2742 cr points
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25 / M / California
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Posted 7/17/08
Hmm China + democracy = Lots of Babies
654 cr points
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Posted 7/19/08

custard456 wrote:

Chinese people are NOT illiterate!! if you have been to China you would realize that it's just as developed as the U.S. and that there standards of education are higher than that in America. Also,in the next few years China will be the top leading economy as researchers say. Though some people are poor in the more rural area the majority of the population are literate and not poor. Heck my grandparents own like 2-3 houses in China. Also, China is not pure communism and the goverment isn't really that bad. Don't forget that China has a population of 1.33 billlion so it's quite difficult to make a sudden change in goverment.


Heh. Of course not all people are iliterate in China. But there are too strong differences between educated cities and uneducated countryside.
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29 / M / Seattle
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Posted 10/10/08
I agree, democracy is not the answer for countries like China. Mainly because what we know as China has existed for 4,000 years. Also, as the creator pointed out, China was under imperial rule for a good chunk of that time.

Now, then I believe that China's population will pose the greatest threat to democracy in China. People do not really think about it but 1 Billion is a lot. And China has more than 1 Billion People in it. The number of people required to get an accurate count of the votes in a reasonable time would discredit any accuracy, due to the amount of potential human error. Second, people always forget about China's labor laws. By the standards of most of the rest of the world China's labor laws equate to Slave Labor at best. So those who are hiring and paying people could very well threaten the jobs of employees for not voting for a certain leader or a certain law. While here in America if you feel you were fired for your political choices, you can at least cause some bad publicity for the company, in China you would not have that kind of power. So the government could manipulate the rich, in China, to keep the laws and leaders they wanted to keep.

All in all Democracy is just not the answer. It worked for America because we could had a cause, and that was to escape oppression. Not just did we have that cause but we had the means to execute that cause or defend ourselves when our oppressors came to stop us. Plus we had that whole, being half-way around the world thing working for us as well. China does not have all of that going for them. Plus they have years of tradition and closed-mindedness holding them back as well.
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digs 
38050 cr points
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24 / M
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Posted 10/10/08
China may not be ready for democracy, but they are ready for religious freedom and their human rights not being infringed upon by the communist government.
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