Post Reply Miike Film Discussion
Posted 7/1/08 , edited 7/1/08
*** Warning Spoilers Section ****






talk about the meanings, plots, symbolism, what actually happened etc -

some examples:

`ichi the killer`: i found a website that said ichi was just an hallucination brought on by jijii - and ichi's victims were hypnotized to kill themselves. it had some valid points to it. not what the (original story) manga had....but who knows with miike?

`audition` : some suggest that the torture scene, bag man etc (basically the last 1/3 of film) was all a dream brought on by guilt of being involved with another woman after his wife's death. some shots could point to this.
i'd like to think asami really did it

`one missed call` : in the end, was he really in a hospital accepting the `jawbreaker deal` or was he already dead? hmmm, i never seen a hospital so spacious (especially in japan) with just flowing dream-like curtains. i personally think he was dead. what say you?

and miike seems to have a fascination with crows/birds - could mean a lot of things.
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Posted 7/2/08 , edited 7/2/08
OK let me think, i guess i'll tackle Audition: I can understand the guilt trip scenario , his wife's dead and he hasn't dated for such a long time, so when he does he feels awful, but for me, there is a flaw in that understanding. His son came in the house while he was being tortured and killed Asami(?). The fathers guilt has nothing to do with the son, so why would the son show up in his guilt dream and rescue him, when his son was the one encouraging him to date/ marry again, if it was a dream( I think) the son would most likely never show up or help Asami in killing or torturing his dad, because dreams usually show your true feeling but in a metaphorical way,and if he was feeling guilty and since his son egged him on in the dating process, then his son ( in a dream) would be seen as evil like Asami. I'm sorry if i talked in circles, its so hard for me to put into words,what i'm feeling, especially with a Miike film,you just never know
Posted 7/3/08

tri-ing30 wrote:

OK let me think, i guess i'll tackle Audition: I can understand the guilt trip scenario , his wife's dead and he hasn't dated for such a long time, so when he does he feels awful, but for me, there is a flaw in that understanding. His son came in the house while he was being tortured and killed Asami(?). The fathers guilt has nothing to do with the son, so why would the son show up in his guilt dream and rescue him, when his son was the one encouraging him to date/ marry again, if it was a dream( I think) the son would most likely never show up or help Asami in killing or torturing his dad, because dreams usually show your true feeling but in a metaphorical way,and if he was feeling guilty and since his son egged him on in the dating process, then his son ( in a dream) would be seen as evil like Asami. I'm sorry if i talked in circles, its so hard for me to put into words,what i'm feeling, especially with a Miike film,you just never know


no problem - talking in circles is the only way to understand miike =)
ok, i'll play devil's advocate.
i understand what you're saying.
but i don't think a father could look at his only son in a negative / torturous way (even in dreams). 1st born males in japanese culture are priceless (and unconsciously).
the film gives hints that the father never left the hotel and dreamed it all up.
when he falls asleep with asami, that's when it starts: it could be out guilt or fear (as he is an older guy with a young girl) - he dreams that she left him and he goes looking for her (can't remember the exact sequences, been a while since i watched it - feel free to correct me). he goes to her past employment, finds her step dad, finds out her sad past etc and begins the torture scene (and finding out more nightmarish stuff about asami - like a dream within a dream). then he wakes up with asami back in the hotel bed all relieved. asami tells him she accepts his marriage proposal - then he goes back to sleep to return to the torture dream. this time it gets even worse (as asami accepted his proposal and his insecurities mount). he's clearly having serious dream-like distorted hallucinations. people are changing into others every time he looks away. he even sees more of asami's past as if he was there when it happened. all nightmare twisted together. gets real messy, then son comes home and saves the day - the end =)
now all that mess that went on in his head could have been from the intense pain, her drug injection. but the only things that stand out from all this nightmare mess is him sleeping with asami and waking up with her.

hoorah for circles
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Posted 7/5/08
You know what i was thinking, maybe the "Hotel Room" was a dream and the "Torture" scene was reality, i do think that was real for some reason, to be tortured like that, you gotta be one sick puppy to dream that up over guilt! I forgot how some asian cultures view their sons, thanks for the reminder!
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Posted 7/5/08
As for One Missed Call, i do believe he was dead, the room was to "dream-like" for a Miike film the ending was to wrapped up, and in most Asian horror,as we all know, nothing is ever wrapped up so neatly!
Posted 7/7/08

tri-ing30 wrote:

You know what i was thinking, maybe the "Hotel Room" was a dream and the "Torture" scene was reality, i do think that was real for some reason, to be tortured like that, you gotta be one sick puppy to dream that up over guilt! I forgot how some asian cultures view their sons, thanks for the reminder!


i think asami did it and all the other shenanigans were true
Posted 7/7/08

tri-ing30 wrote:

As for One Missed Call, i do believe he was dead, the room was to "dream-like" for a Miike film the ending was to wrapped up, and in most Asian horror,as we all know, nothing is ever wrapped up so neatly!


yep, he was dead. mimiko took his ass to the hospital in the sky
i wish they left it there. i really hated part 2, 3 etc. glad miike didn't do them
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Posted 7/18/08
Hi! I wonder if anyone can help me with the film Izo? I've been trying to discuss it with someone else, but we've agreed that neither of us has the background in Buddhism to properly understand the film. My understanding of eastern philosophy is pretty limited. I've got an idea about it (see below). Could someone who actually knows more tell me how wrong I am or if I'm even close on this film?

Okay...Here's what I do get: references of Yin/Yang & 5 elements. Here's some info on the philosophy:


The essentials of the yin-yang school are as follows: the universe is run by a single principle, the Tao, or Great Ultimate. This principle is divided into two opposite principles, or two principles which oppose one another in their actions, yin and yang. All the opposites one perceives in the universe can be reduced to one of the opposite forces. The yin and yang accomplish changes in the universe through the five material agents, or wu hsing, which both produce one another and overcome one another.



In Izo, The emperor with the snake is the Tao. The two final protectors near the end are the essence of yin and yang of Tao. The "gangsters" in charge of the world are the five material agents. One of these "gangsters" is actually on Izo's side (I think he also plays the bard). He commands Izo to kill the rest in divine retribution.

Basically, the film is about a man who is so filled with rage he seeks to destroy all of existence. During his war on everything, his soul becomes unbalanced and slowly refines to a state of pure "yin". The film has some philosophical commentary on what Yin really is. For instance, the school-girl zombies try to destroy yin, much as modern women try to destroy the worst of masculine urges. Various people question his right to exist since as a pure "Yin" entity he is simply destroying without reason.

Izo's "Yang" is in the form of the older woman who says they were destined to meet, but unable to be together. That's the part he refuses to acknowledge. She also submits some philosophical commentary on the nature of Yin. She tells victims that they need to make way for Izo (Yin) if they wish to live. I take this to mean that Yin is necessary and unavoidable, therefore you should simply accept it and learn to work around it, instead of trying to stop it.

Izo continues to become pure Yin until he finally shows himself as a demon. After defeating the five principles, he faces the Tao and it's Yin/Yang. The yin and yang of the tao also fall before his wrath. However, as he ascends the steps to face the Tao, he realizes that he cannot even touch it since he is an out-of-balance being. The Tao refuses to destroy Izo and finally has him truly reincarnated through his Yang self.
Posted 7/19/08

zkatey1 wrote:

Hi! I wonder if anyone can help me with the film Izo? I've been trying to discuss it with someone else, but we've agreed that neither of us has the background in Buddhism to properly understand the film. My understanding of eastern philosophy is pretty limited. I've got an idea about it (see below). Could someone who actually knows more tell me how wrong I am or if I'm even close on this film?

Okay...Here's what I do get: references of Yin/Yang & 5 elements. Here's some info on the philosophy:


The essentials of the yin-yang school are as follows: the universe is run by a single principle, the Tao, or Great Ultimate. This principle is divided into two opposite principles, or two principles which oppose one another in their actions, yin and yang. All the opposites one perceives in the universe can be reduced to one of the opposite forces. The yin and yang accomplish changes in the universe through the five material agents, or wu hsing, which both produce one another and overcome one another.



In Izo, The emperor with the snake is the Tao. The two final protectors near the end are the essence of yin and yang of Tao. The "gangsters" in charge of the world are the five material agents. One of these "gangsters" is actually on Izo's side (I think he also plays the bard). He commands Izo to kill the rest in divine retribution.

Basically, the film is about a man who is so filled with rage he seeks to destroy all of existence. During his war on everything, his soul becomes unbalanced and slowly refines to a state of pure "yin". The film has some philosophical commentary on what Yin really is. For instance, the school-girl zombies try to destroy yin, much as modern women try to destroy the worst of masculine urges. Various people question his right to exist since as a pure "Yin" entity he is simply destroying without reason.

Izo's "Yang" is in the form of the older woman who says they were destined to meet, but unable to be together. That's the part he refuses to acknowledge. She also submits some philosophical commentary on the nature of Yin. She tells victims that they need to make way for Izo (Yin) if they wish to live. I take this to mean that Yin is necessary and unavoidable, therefore you should simply accept it and learn to work around it, instead of trying to stop it.

Izo continues to become pure Yin until he finally shows himself as a demon. After defeating the five principles, he faces the Tao and it's Yin/Yang. The yin and yang of the tao also fall before his wrath. However, as he ascends the steps to face the Tao, he realizes that he cannot even touch it since he is an out-of-balance being. The Tao refuses to destroy Izo and finally has him truly reincarnated through his Yang self.


you know....i never gave much thought on `izo` (just enjoyed the relentlessness).
i was raised a hardcore catholic
so i would be no use on the buddhist symbolism.
thanks for giving me a different point of view
hopefully one of our members can clear this up, as i am now interested myself.


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Posted 9/15/08

I think of the rebirth at the end of Izo as a variation of the birth scene during the climax of Gozu. where the rebirth in Gozu was physical, the rebirth in Izo is spiritual. Izo is full of methaphors that can be seen in different ways by what you take out of the film. With One Missed Call's finale, I interpreted it as a metaphor of a return to a child like state, especially for the main female character. An idea that frequents a few of Miike's films.
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Posted 9/23/08

One question I have about the end of MPD Psycho is who is the flower pot girl in the water? Is it the young woman who was with the main protagonist in the final episode of the mini series?
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Posted 9/29/08

I liked the use of the zoom during the parting scene early on in Bodyguard Kiba between Junpei and his girlfriend. Esp as a way of showing that they will drift apart. The scene is made more powerful as a flashback after the suicide of the girlfriend to suggest they will be apart forever.
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