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Our industry giants talk it out...
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26 / M / CA, USA
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/7/08
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2008/anime-expo/industry-roundtable-fansubs-the-death-of-anime
- Source: ANN

Discuss.

Alright, here's my note taking while I re-watched the whole bloody thing. Took about an hour and a half to groom through the video. *NOTE* Typos and grammatical errors may be littered through out this, since these are notes.


Fansubs not being useful since the VHS days (Justin)
- So now fansubs aren't doing anything to help
get you in the right direction?
[5:45]
Problems need addressing
[6:15]
"Fansubbing's evolution" - Sounds almost like he
interpreted a wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fansub#Evolution_of_the_fansub
[7:30]*
Demographics, price, money, disposable income.
[11:40]
"Bigger picture" - categorizing the entire fan base
[12:00]
"Other reasons come up" I understand you aren't
providing anything but a website and a
service here... But variety has carved it's
own niche into this consumer economy.
Mocking freedom of speech, for what?
"Silly" in other words.
[12:30]
"Who can blame them" you obviously are, it's written
all over your articles on your site.
[13:00]
Money isn't being generated alright, I'll give you that.
But until you can actually tap into a money
source off of these kids, you're not getting
it in the first place. But I understand, there's
the reverse side where people who can
afford them not actually paying their dues,
that can actually hurt. So why don't you
publish some figures?
[13:40]
You can relate the music industry, to some extent. But
this is a different case. There are parallels,
but the nature of how the market has evolved is
drastically different.
[14:47]
I want to see how much it costs you to hire your shitty
voice actors, the directors, and other production-
costs. Then I want to see just why 90% of the
people who buy your stuff in the American market
buy it for your dubs. From what I understand,
the internet for the American and European side
take subbing as their ONLY medium. Don't start
forging numbers.
[15:39]
This will be also addressing something in the future of
this video. You speak of global release, same time.
Now we all understand that you have countless
papers to sign and fill out. You have legal
documents to take care of, as well as production
figures to fill in. But why can't you eliminate
a large portion of the process. Gonzo has obviously
managed something, with crunchyroll. The model
is some what lucid in the financial aspect.
But god darn it, you accommodate your production
for the same day state-side launch in the
equation. You eliminate this large "translation"
process by cutting large portions of distribution,
and a large production cost with regards to dubbing.
It can be done, bugs need to be ironed out,
but it is feasible.
[17:01]
There are many speculations as to how one can go about to
fix the problem. But until people start becoming
a business and prepare for some major losses,
they can't even begin to start and fix the issues.
Talking about the ideas, brain-storming, and
theorizing things out is one thing. Actually
putting them into use is another. We will never
know how well how one idea works until you do it.
[19:36]
Catering back and forth. DVDs, physical medium has it's
attractions. The dry bare bones digital medium
also attracts many more. Combine the two, and
figure things out. If you eliminate a large, large
production figure from the DVD production, and
focus on digital medium... and not your loose
commitment, you might catch onto a new fad.
[21:00]
Adapting, that is what everything in the world needs. Cliche
phrases don't hold much weight.
[21:34]
Other thing to note. Your illegal trafficking is done
mostly on a digital medium. You cater to this
and you fix a large portion of it. There will be
people who will just never pay for their stuff.
But you make an effort to fix your "online-
digital" problem, and you've fixed more then anyone
has over this past decade.
[22:37]
Talking about, and waiting for DRM to fix itself doesn't
work. If Hollywood hasn't fixed it, why not the
anime industry? Who are you to limit what is
possible at this point in time.
[23;17]
Obviously it's hard to trust in this world, but because
companies have such a large disconnect with
reality, being pessimistic about anything doesn't
solve anything.
[23:50]
But don't be so naive as to think the online community will
police the internet for you unless they're getting
something back out of the process.
[24:29]
The idiots who think that paying their $5 is supporting
their anime should be educated with a a good-
old-fashion beating with wood chips in a sock.
People are paying for bandwidth, for the server
that they stream off of.
Tap into this medium of demand. CR and Gonzo is
a prime example.
[24:58]
People will defeat the system. Just like the age old battle
between weapons and armor. You make it more
difficult to upload, these uploaders will find a
loop-hole. You setup a bandwidth limit, they spread
the seeding at lower speeds, but over various
terminals.
[25:42]
Take your production times into account. If you really
want to tap into the revenue into the US, and
satiate the demand, then accommodate everything.
You guys decide if you want to make or lose
money. Showing us results and figures would help.
[26:12]
Then advertise to us. Either American products, or
Japanese. For Pete-sakes, think about it for
a second.
[28:03]
How does it feel after reading all my "educating", when
all you can really think of is about educating
us back. Everyone has pride, some more then others.
But because you're providing the service, and goods
you're trying to grab our money over the next guy.
So succumb to our demands, and you are a happy-
camper. Supply is NOT an issue anymore.
[28:25]
Active participation. With the onset of cracking down on sites
people feel the presence. Things are actually
being done. People feel you actually care about
protecting your property. People will, and can
change their ways... GRADUALLY. But granted that
we see some returns in our losses of our convenience
and your inconvenience.
[30:13]
"I had no idea, I'm so sorry" - Could also be interpreted,
"I knew that jackass, I'm just going to be a
suck-up for now, so you can get off my case".
[31:04]
As the saying goes, "The brighter you shine that light, the
more defined the shadows become". These prehistoric
methods of illegal distributions are really clear-
cut cases. Always deal with them the best you can.
But manage your priorities.
[38:13]


I'm going to condense this down into a proper critical analysis. But as stated before, these are notes.
Posted 7/7/08
w00t seriously
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25 / M / This Dying World
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/7/08
Death of Anime

Solution: Pay fansubbers to do your subbing >.> dvd yellow/white subs is fail >.> , but dvd quality/uncut scene is epic

NOTE: All I have said here, was while I was viewing the video above. Also based on experience, fact, and opinion. Nothing more nothing less

EDIT: anime is going to be like the music crisis in american >.> years back

EDIT2: I have seen countless animes, from both orginial DVD and fansubs. The video provided above, one of the speakers "Justin" said "oh I like the translations better" *Justin* noting this as debate material. Now there are times when the original subbing is complete off the Japanese language, i.e matching the subs to the dubbed part of the anime. Yet they did not fix the sub for the orginal Japanese voice.

EDIT3: *blonde dude* Don't dub anime >.> if it costs money. 95% of the world simply likes subs, It's just that simple.

EDIT4: I did have a real comment here, but I will not post, fear of using this idea. FS perspective.

EDIT5: Original production is simply too slow. I live half way across the world from Japan. By the time they get the series over here, they would have moved on to a new anime >.>

EDIT6: ALL STREAMING OF ANIME SUCKS... no offence CR. The encoding of the streaming sites always take a slight toll on the file. Now we are getting into higher resolutions, blu-ray, High Definition, its got much better. Nevertheless a good DVD or file, ALWAYS beats a stream.

EDIT7: Most contridicting BS I have ever heard. Patriot Act *monitors your internet usage* yet it is invasion of privacy >.>

EDIT8: *blonde dude again* he mentioned, that the broadcasters get it a day before, and it is impossible to get it subtitled, ready to go etc. HOW THE HELL DO FANSUBBERS DO IT THEN!!!

EDIT9: There are 6.5 billion people in the world minus 2 billion that are starving and another 2 that do not watch, know, don't have a computer etc. now you have 2.5 billion. Instead of putting more money into education and enforcement >.> I would personally pay Animation companies the price for a DVD, not recieve the DVD and have Fansub matierial.
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28 / M / somewhere here
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Posted 7/7/08
is it really true?

omg!! so frightening
lkmjr 
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21 / F / Dreamland....
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Posted 7/7/08
*facepalm* Simple solution: Team up with fansubbers. The fansubbers get the first five eps free or whatever, but have to pay if they want more. So subbers turn to fans and ask for donations, kind hearted fans donate, they buy the rest of the series and sub it, keeping 60% of the leftover moohla for themselves and giving the remaining 40% to the anime companies. It's that simple. Maybe they could even make a deal regarding advertizements, like we'll give you a discount if you sub advertizments as well, because then the anime companies could get more money from the ad companies, the ad compnanies get more money from their clients, and their clients get more customers. See, now so hard, now is it? OK, so it's probably more complicted than that, but it could work!
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26 / M / CA, USA
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Posted 7/7/08

lkmjr wrote:

*facepalm* Simple solution: Team up with fansubbers. The fansubbers get the first five eps free or whatever, but have to pay if they want more. So subbers turn to fans and ask for donations, kind hearted fans donate, they buy the rest of the series and sub it, keeping 60% of the leftover moohla for themselves and giving the remaining 40% to the anime companies. It's that simple. Maybe they could even make a deal regarding advertizements, like we'll give you a discount if you sub advertizments as well, because then the anime companies could get more money from the ad companies, the ad compnanies get more money from their clients, and their clients get more customers. See, now so hard, now is it? OK, so it's probably more complicted than that, but it could work!


I was going to refrain from posting completely because I didn't want to interfere with the (if there is any right now) discussion... but yeah... that fails right then and there.
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31 / F / Australia
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Posted 7/7/08
we are all so used to getting free anime subs that needing to pay for them seems unthinkable..
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22 / F / Planet Earth
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/7/08
............I just don't get why they don't just GET IT from the fans and stop dubbing things? Like when I went to fanime, I saw a screening of an OP movie....and guess what, it was subbed. And the subs seemed like fansubs from I think it was yuurisan? that I saw when I watched it.......=_= Doesn't that tell you something!?!!??!

EDIT: I wonder......that since CR has already worked with GONZO and ADV Films, why don't the Anime licensors catch on and know fans really want? Shouldn't they know that a huge percent of the reason why most fans don't like them is because of delay and dubbing, why don't they just stop dubbing? You spend money finding knew voices, you use time recording the new voices, wouldn't it just be faster to stop dubbing? Admit it. NO ONE likes dubbing, be it English dubbing of anime or Chinese dubbing of Korean dramas. The whole reason why the anime industry is failing is because they can't keep up with releases of series like what fansubbers do. So take the example of CR and GONZO and work with them. =_=
Posted 7/7/08
i dont give a crap about that im going to watch anime for free as long as i possible can and yes i download music free also
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Posted 7/7/08

tommyfire13 wrote:

i dont give a crap about that im going to watch anime for free as long as i possible can and yes i download music free also


GTFO. care about it more. anime is not a free business.

the quote in red tells every1 how much of a fan you are.
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25 / F / Canada
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Posted 7/7/08
I buy the stuff after watching it on-line (Unless the series really sucks) but I totally agree that fan-subs are really causing havoc with the industry. Direct 2 Drive and faster releases over here are good ideas that were suggested. Also more episodes on a disc. Cause it's crazy to pay $40 for 5 episodes.
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/7/08

tommyfire13 wrote:

i dont give a crap about that im going to watch anime for free as long as i possible can and yes i download music free also


Oh someone's being retard again.
That's just pathetic. You are not worth shit, go die bitch.

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Posted 7/7/08

TriPad wrote:


tommyfire13 wrote:

i dont give a crap about that im going to watch anime for free as long as i possible can and yes i download music free also


Oh someone's being retard again. Thats just pathetic. Die, just die please your stupidity us ruining the thread.



how can he simply say that >.> what a dipshit >.>
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26 / M / Rochester, NY, USA
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Posted 7/7/08
i prefer to buy DVDs but come on... its impossible to get the majority of what i watch any other waybut by fansubs. fansubs are the lifeblood of the english speaking fanbase.
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23 / M / somwhere in the w...
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Posted 7/7/08
i agree with the people before me *cough* (takes a deep breath) TEAM UP WITH FANSUBBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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