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Atheism
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Posted 7/7/08 , edited 7/15/08


The truth is, like the attitude of Islam, you've probably been bred against it. If you're in America for instance, being Atheist is more detrimental to your political career than being Muslim or gay (citation: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm).
If the only things you think you know about atheism come from your church or the media, then you are ignorant on the subject. Many news, institutions, and law makers are discriminatory on the subject.
(examples, but don't make these articles discussion topics:



Opening up discussion, as its gotten quiet in here. Discuss criticism for/against, political and social impact Whatever your heart desires.
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Posted 7/12/08 , edited 7/12/08
What is the relation between atheism and humanistic value theory?
Can one be an atheist and not accept any humanistic value theories?
Can one accept a humanist value theory and believe in God?
A negative atheist is someone who has no belief in God?
A positive atheist is someone who disbelieves in God?
An atheist is a darwinist ?
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Posted 7/12/08

chinky_sonny wrote:

What is the relation between atheism and humanistic value theory?
Can one be an atheist and not accept any humanistic value theories?
A negative atheist is someone who has no belief in God?
A positive atheist is someone who disbelieves in God?
An atheist is a darwinist ?


Depends.
Yes.
No.
No, because the question is flawed.
No, not necessarily.
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Posted 7/12/08 , edited 7/12/08
Atheism can possibly possess at least two definitions, although at first glance they seem identical, upon further thought would reveal their difference.

a) A belief that there are no deities or gods.

b) An absence of a belief in deities or gods.

So we end up with at least two distinctly different forms of atheism. One is aggressive and seeks to refute some established system, while the other is more docile and is simply apathetic towards the situation. As already mentioned by Chinky_sonny in her post. By clearly defining Atheism, we might be able to see that under the definition of a), it promotes a feeling similar to that of a religion. As religion is a faith based system, in its ideal form, 'beliefs' are held with unwavering determination. However it's imperative to realize, quite unfortunately for our lazy selves, that the world does not remain the same with unwavering determination. So our beliefs should be ones that follow the course of change and adapt to whatever may be encountered in the future.

People tend to form ideas and beliefs because they are necessary to our existence. There are things that we must worry about from day to day life, like 'why I should not put my hand in a fire' or 'why jumping off sky scrapers is a bad idea'. These are practical beliefs if we want to continue our systematic functions as human beings in the smoothest way possible. Most normal people will have these beliefs, for most normal people wish for continued existence.

The distinction between the religious, the agnostic and the atheistic occurs from something deeper than just a tendency to act or believe a certain way. 'For the beliefs of practicality' I mentioned above, we assumed that 'normal people' wish for continued existence. It is that wish, that causes one to come to those beliefs of common sense. Each person, deep down inside, has a wish or trigger of some sort. Whether the trigger is caused by biological sequence or environmental influence is not clear, but within everyone it exists. However, the traits are not always evident on the surface of the individual, since it could be rather deep inside one's subconsciousness.
---For the religious, that trigger could be connected with relieving personal responsibility. A 'guide' telling them what to do and how to live is preferred by this group. The weakness is overcome by embracing a being more powerful than yourself and feeling they are 'on your side'.
---For the agnostic, that trigger could be connected with detachment. This could be viewed as another form of relieving personal responsibility, where a "none of this matters anyways, so it doesn't matter what I do" mentality is employed. Weakness is overcome by no longer caring for weakness, as all things no longer matter, neither does weakness.
---As for the atheistic, the trigger could be connected with a perception of 'weakness' in relieving personal responsibility. In order to compromise for that weakness in themselves, they take all matters into their own hands and assume all responsibility.

A typical Adlerian analysis it would seem.

However I'd like to remind everyone who reads this, these are merely interpretations - my interpretations of things surrounding myself. We should take care in our lives to never get too 'stuck' with any one certain idea. Absolute ideas are far too heavy to carry, only by maintaining an open and critical mind, can we unbind ourselves from societal chains and truly dance in the wind. And I believe we should consider each day wasted, if we have not danced once.
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Posted 7/12/08
Long time without seeing a thread about atheism where the first 2 posts where not "rot in hell atheists" or "the church rules kkk".

....."Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, or the rejection of theism (Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more divinities or deities). It is also defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities".....

Now if we think on a practical way this means that the person really belives that god or gods do not exist but that doest mean he takes the darwininan teories as beliefs, we could say that the person does not accept anything that can be classified as a "supernatural event" since they are supposed to be tied to a higher power that us.

I guess ppl tend to belive in something cuz 1) the fear or getting to the end of their lives and finding out that there is actually something else after death, or 2)its a way to remove some of the reponsability for taking some decisions or accions out of or daily lives, ie. following any type of religion that will tell you what its good or not and how you should more or less live it.

Well if you look closely its hard to find someone who trully belives that he is an a atheist these days, even our lenguages have been touch one way or another by the religions around the world, think about it, when we make a surprise remark, one of posibilies in our mind is always "omg".

Sorry if the post its a little wierd, im tired and my english seem to go to hell when im tired.
As always everything exposed in this post are my opinions and its not intended to insult anyone.


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Posted 7/12/08
excalion....you are freakin' good!!

I agree in having a critical and open mind and it makes sense that Atheist have the belief in practicality....

In saying that, I think it would be practical to believe in a God, since I was reassured that my bet on God wasn't going to waste by Pascal, and his wager.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/pasc-wag.htm

(Sorry, I got lazy and decided it would be easiest for me to put a link that shows the argument and what I mean.)
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Posted 7/13/08 , edited 7/13/08
Anger with god is an interesting issue in my mind.

Of course, you can be angry AT god, or you can be idea of god.

An Atheist can be formed from the second, but not from the first.

the second is anger at an idea, or the people holding the idea. These things exist within the views of atheism (duh). However, the first means that in a way, the person acknowledges some existence of a supreme being and thus has some theistic tendencies. Atheism is the complete belief that there is no god(s).

Most of the time, people angry AT god are Deists, and not atheists.
(Deism is the idea of an absent god that does not interfere an ANY matters of human affairs)
Posted 7/14/08 , edited 7/14/08
in this section, "arguments for atheism" means "arguments for the nonexistence of God." In the jargon of the philosophy of religion, such arguments are known as "atheological arguments." The argument from evil (sometimes referred to as 'the problem of evil') is by far the most famous of such arguments, but it is by no means the only such argument. Indeed, in the 1990s atheist philosophers developed a flurry of atheological arguments; arguably the most famous of such arguments is the argument from divine hiddenness (and the related argument from nonbelief).

Edit: Or we can just call it , " Non belief of the catholic church."
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Posted 7/14/08 , edited 7/14/08
I can see their reasons for their beliefs (not believing in some form of deity is a belief) I myself am not an atheist, however I think fear and condemnation of atheists is as despicable as discrimination against any religion. People don't need to believe in a higher authority in order to have morals.
Posted 7/15/08
GOD BLESS ATHEISM!
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Posted 8/30/08

chinky_sonny wrote:

What is the relation between atheism and humanistic value theory?
Can one be an atheist and not accept any humanistic value theories?
Can one accept a humanist value theory and believe in God?
A negative atheist is someone who has no belief in God?
A positive atheist is someone who disbelieves in God?
An atheist is a darwinist ?


Let me think on it... I don't know humanistic value theory very well XD I should ask and read some arguments.

For those who don't understand what Humanistic value theory is, it is that all values are relative to the human experience. Following the quote that "Man is the measure of all things"


What is the relation between atheism and humanistic value theory?

I would argue against this being a purely atheist idea, but it is an idea that coincides well with atheism. If God is not the one who assigns moral value for instance, then it must be man who assigns value.

Besides disbelief in religious deities though, there is no real "one" uniting idea among atheists. Some argue that there are things with intrinsic value. If you say that only humans give value, then you're talking about that value only relating to human beings. Some Atheists might argue an item's value based on it's history or inherent qualities, not just for what it can do for a person. Say, saving an animal some rare stink beetle from extinction. Humans have fully studied it, photographed it, and know everything there is to know about it. Saving it has no value to the human race, but I'd argue that many atheists would still be in favor of saving it. Why? Because they believe that the living thing has an intrinsic value. (value for the sake of value). Thus like asking yourself: Is value relative or absolute?


Can one accept a humanist value theory and believe in God?


I would say that it's possible, but unlikely. Just because you believe in god, doesn't mean you follow his edicts (there is a rebel in every family). Or you can say that humans values and godly values are two totally separate things, with god's being the "right" value. This would fit into the idea that by eating the forbidden fruit man was released to have values outside of god.



A negative atheist is someone who has no belief in God?
A positive atheist is someone who disbelieves in God?

Pardon me, but I have a tough time distinguishing what you mean. disbelieve means, "to be unable to believe" and no belief means the same thing. An atheist is opposite of the word theism. Theism is,
"Belief in the existence of a god or gods"
atheism is the belief that there no god of any sort. There is Deism, the belief that there is a god, but he is uncaring and doesn't muddle in our affairs. There is Agnosticism, which is holding the belief that there is ot enough evidence to fully rule out one theory or another.
Someone who believes that there can be gods but not the Abrahamic god is just a non-christian.


An atheist is a darwinist?

A lot of atheists get annoyed by the term "Darwinists" and "Darwinism". They (and myself) believe that this is just a word created by conservative Christians to make it seem like the belief in the theory (and most Christians don't understand the scientific meaning of theory) is a cult-like experience.

I say no, because I don't believe there is "darwinism", because I do not follow the man's ideals and philosophy, but I do like his science. At the same time though, no an atheist doesn't have to believe in Darwin's explanation, because an atheist can believe what he wants. You might still find someone who believes in Le'Marc's hypothesis (right name spelling?) of evolution, which came BEFORE Darwin's if I remember correctly. Someone can check that.

An atheist is generally (but not always!) someone who believes things based on the evidence put before them. In my mind, there is more evidence for evolution then intelligent design. Also, remember that that evolution attempts to explains how life changes, not how it came to be.

Let me explain what a theory is...
There is a vary blurry line within the scientific community. When you probably think of the word "theory", I bet most people are thinking of the scientific equivalent of "hypothesis." A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for certain phenomena based on limited evidence, but is a starting point for further testing. A "Theory" is a more or less verified idea that sets out to explain the behavior that has been observed through experimentation. (this is how my chemistry teacher explained it) I will state that evolution has been tested extensively under observable circumstances. The most recent being the very long e-coli experiment where e-coli strain used mutated to be able to metabolize citrate. Theories though can be discarded at a moment's notice though when they fail to explain all of the facts gathered. Lemarc's explanations didn't hold up to experimentation.

In many ways, theory is a stronger explanation for law = ) just remember that science is as more about disproving ideas (aka: skepticism) than proving them. XD I think it's this idea that nothing is absolute that makes creationalists dismiss science so readily. I digress severely.
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Posted 8/30/08
I didn't feel like reading the rants but will someone explain to me why atheitism is a good thing?
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Posted 8/30/08

excalion wrote:

a) A belief that there are no deities or gods.

b) An absence of a belief in deities or gods.


For the sake of attaching labels to everything I'll say that I think that a) would be antitheism -- a belief that there are no gods and b) would be atheism a lack of belief in gods.


SimplyBill wrote:

Question:

How can a person be fully recognized as an Atheist? How can we differentiate a true Atheist from a hypocritical one? Can Atheist form because of anger with "god"?


How can there be any such thing? A hypocritical Christian would be someone who espouses Christianity in public but breaks the rules in private? If someone were to call himself, say, a secular humanist and they were a bastard to everyone they met they'd just be a bastard. There’s no holy book of atheism, no church of atheism no atheist leaders telling people what to believe and how to act. Just your own conscience. Can you say that you have done what you believe to be right?


crunchypibb wrote:

I didn't feel like reading the rants but will someone explain to me why atheitism is a good thing?


You're inconsistent. First you call the sensible, thoughtful posts rants, refuse to read them and then you ask for more.

Maybe bullet points would be better?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Atheism
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Posted 8/30/08
I don't think that's necessarily true...
u stated that America is mostly a Christian society and Atheisim, like muslims and gays, r minorities and r nto easily acceted others
in fact, every public school in america (not to mention most public schools around the world) r teaching kids how atheism is true, and they teach it again and again over the years
I have only been in America for 4 years and they have already teach us evolution twice
and u cannnot call the church ignorant
many churches shows videos of proofs how atheism is wrong and how it affects our community, for example, this site has a pretty good collections of videos on how evolution is wrong

http://drdino.com/downloads.php
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Posted 8/30/08
Atheist: someone who does not believe that God exists.
Greek meaning: Without God.

Personally I'm not really sure of my beliefs. I do sincerely believe in that for a Fact, there is a 'Higher Up Being' BUT is it God? Though I'd rather call myself a Atheist.

I've been going to church for a few years now, I'm starting to believe more and more, but at the same time it kinda feels like brain washing. Everyone in the North American society (majority of us) grew up in an environment where religion was a huge part of our lives, a lot of kids these days grows up in a Church; and the generation like my parents, have even MORE people who grew up with churches; what I think, is that ever since a young age; those people weren't given a choice (though that God gives us free will) and the fundamental idea that Atheism is wrong, is already established in their minds. ---- as for the thing about how Atheism is discriminated more than other things; its understandable, for a lot of religious people believe that things like 'gay' for say, is a sickness and can be cured, and God may still be 'with them'. ----- but for Atheism it's a complete different thing from being theism. so they're against the complete opposite more than something in between.

As for Atheism; Churches make it sound like such a scary thing, but really its just 'not believing in God' one still have morals, one could still have believes, --- being an Atheist doesn't make us Evil, it doesn't make us Satan-like. ---- it just means we don't believe in God.

I've heard my pastor teaching us that people who are Atheist doesn't have morals; personally I think its complete BS. Morals is our judgment of what's right and whats' wrong. --- it doesn't and it shouldn't have anything to do with what we believe --- though what we believe CAN effect it. Morals is something that a natural human have. its like how everyone of us is born with a brain--- everyone of us can be born with morals.
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