Survival. Thats what it all comes down to.

I think we shouldn't believe a thing if there's no proof about its whereabouts. Especially to unknown things.
You are an evolution believer, correct? But you don't know about IDA or even Nebraska man, maybe?
Sorry if it sounds rude...



Even though they living in the forest, it still tough to find food. Because they don't have farm to produce their food. Even they could live with hunting, the animals there are mostly dangerous and many of those tribes suffered injury or infected poisons from poisonous animals.

If they wanted to make it easier, they should evolve to something better, right? And referring to their grand grand parents, they've already live in the deep deep forest or in isolated area, islands since hundreds ago(Because they even don't have electricity since Franklin invented it long ago). But yet, we haven't hear any news about some tribe has evolved to something different than humans and more useful to survive in common.

How many it take for a organism to evolve actually?



I find the "random chance" is the thing human made of. Or if it true that "random chance" is exists., wouldn't it be normal to have a abnormality in our planet orbit. Something like, our earth's rotation is rotate the sun, instead it'll be move away from the sun.

I know about Sun's gravitation to keep the planets distance the way they are. But do you think this system about this perfect rotation among 10 planets in our galaxy so they could move without block the way of another or even didn't encounter some space things such as another satellite like moons, is a "random chance"? This system is perfect. If this caused by random chance, our planets should have hit something on its way



Why those animals didn't have the right vocal chords....etc. like the Apes had?
Why only Apes who could develop their brains to be like perfect brains that humans had?
Why only Apes who had the right genes?




The Big Bang Theory is a fact, scientists has already proven it by seeing it themselves. The view that an explosions occurred in the space like a rose. You could watch it too that Big Bang Theory is a fact and still happening as we talk.

Why it has Theory at the back? Because space wasn't created just by explosions, thus there were any incident to made the space.
Like Nebula Mist Theory and others Theory as well. Those theory supporting each other in order to creates space.




They don't want to learn it because they don't have knowledge till that extend, since they just need rain to grow their fields. But we have another kind of intelligent person called scientist to reveal the secret of rains, that's why it doesn't matter anymore.

I don't want to acknowledge something that doesn't have evidence. I DO believe in evolution but not for evolution of Humans are from Monkeys. And I still don't have specific explanation, proof and the truth about this evolution.



If that theory about upright and bigger brains are true, then how about dolphin? At their inner head, their brain also has upright position even though they can't make their body like that. But as long as the brains stay stable and upright, shouldn't it doesn't matter for them to evolve to be a human too?

Why only Apes who allowed to have right genes to evolved to be a humans? And why those genes have to do with learning, reasoning, speech and others that make human leads this world? There are tons of genes in billions of animal species out there. Yet, why only Apes that have right genes to become a creature that leads this world?

Those tons of genes of animals in billions species should have more benefits in intelligence sector not in physical form.
Why only Apes?

If you prone to get irritable by conversations that could trigger your patience, then you shouldn't post in ED which has many arguments on it.

And yet so many people believe in some type of god, or things like ghosts and souls, despite the fact that they have no proof of them. So basically no one should believe anything unless they actually see it, right?





I don't keep up with current events in the world of science, so if they've been discovered in the past 5 years or so then I wouldn't know about them





You're still underestimating them. If it were really that hard, they would have left or died out a long time ago.




They can't just force themselves to evolve. They may eventually evolve into something more ape-like, but, again, they haven't been there long enough and they have already adapted well enough to suit their needs.



A few hundred years isn't long enough for them to change into a new species.



For humans to evolve back in apes, it would probably take a few hundred thousand years, or maybe even a few million years. That's usually how long it takes for macro-organisms to evolve into entirely new species.



That is an entirely different discussion that will just result in a dead end (much like this one), but for the sake of simplicity I'll simply say God made them have the right genes, and God made their brains develop that way.



God made it that way.




So scientists were around at the being of our universe and watched it form from that explosion? If they were around back then, then why did they only record that and not everything that happened after that?

And if those explosions in space are creating new universes, what are they like? Are they similar to ours? Are they the exact same as ours.



What is Nebula Mist Theory? Google didn't turn up any results for it.





So why can other organisms evolve but humans can't? Did we ever evolve from anything? What evidence do you have the evolution even happens to anything?



They don't have the genes that allow certain parts of their brains to develop the way ours do.



Because God made it that way. You say you believe in evolution, and I'm assuming you believe in a god and that he created evolution, so ask him why he made it that way.



I'm just going to copy this over here to avoid spamming the other thread.


So you say you think the fossil record is true, then how do you explain the fossils that suggests that humans and apes are closely related? How do you explain all of the holes in the fossil record for most of the species out there?

If you think the molecular and anatomical records are fact, then why do you reject the part of the record that suggests that humans evolved from apes, but don't reject any other part of it?

Where is the proof that wolves, dogs, and foxes have a common ancestor? Sure they are all similar to each other, just like humans and other apes, but they are still different species. Why can they evolve from something similar to them, but we can't evolve from something similar to us?

We have proof about God and such things, and it could be explained by logic and it match with science too (In my religion, not Christiany and there's no many variant of bibles in my religion)

.
But of course, it still tough for them, if not why many of them get badly injured or died everyday to get their food?
Their dangerous nature environment should force them to evolve to make it easier, right?




Look by their grand grand father, they already there since a loooong time ago, since Homo sapiens lived(because they also humans).
Yet by natural adaptation they've been encountered everydays. It shouldn't take long for them to evolve if they really can




Ermm.... you meant we could be back to Apes again? Even in this modern age?
Or you meant we could evolve to some creatures that not infected by bad pollution since our environment will be worse eventually.





So there is no things like "random chance", right? Someone superior than us made it that way.
Also that superior beings was the one who made Adam and Eve to be our ancestors not Apes



Not random chance?




lol, those explosions are still happening even now. Scientists discovered it before 2000, if i'm not wrong. And you might already know it, our space is gigantic. There are many galaxy out there and many suns like in our milky way. Yet, the space still becoming larger and larger by exploding themselves. And Scientist watching it right now.

No, space and humans are different.... that's obvious, no?

My bad, just type Nebula theory there.




I never said humans can't evolve, it just like you said right? Humans are originally from those homo sapiens and anything before that.
But not from Monkeys. That's why I emphasizing about the most difference between humans and animals, BRAINS




Why they don't have while Apes have it? Both of them are animals right?





I DO believe in evolution only in Animals to be better Animals because of nature adaptation.
Not from Monkeys to becomes a perfect being like humans.

I do believe in God and God has the answer, it because Humans are originally from humans too, Adam and Eve. who also has thought and feelings.

Animals are animals, they can't evolve to be a smarter beings like humans. As you said, they don't have right genes. The genes to feel empathy, feelings and chances to developing their way of thinking.

Humans can be a better humans by developing their knowledge.
Animals can be a better animals by evolving their body parts to live in this nature

Maybe it just by accident, I don't know what God thought.

If you wonder why they are similar, you should refer to many animal's species or fossils that has been discovered.
Many of them many similarities. Yet, they're entirely different.



It because of BRAINS. How can Ape's brains developed to be like us? The brains that can feels others feelings, being reasonable, able to understand math and difficult science.



The articles said so. Do you read it? Yes, the other reason is because they're similar. And they're animals, so it's not strange.
Well, yes we can evolve from something similar. Like Homo Sapiens and many from our ancestor which is also human. That's why it's not strange if a humans can be developed to be a better humans by improving their knowledge.

But animals?....

In all of the religious debates I've been in and seen, I've never seen any proof of God other than people's faith in him. But that is a whole different discussion.



Evolution doesn't work that quickly.




It was a hypothetical example.




This, again, is a matter of beliefs, which will end in a dead end. Neither of us will convince each other that our beliefs are right. I believe things happened through random chance (for lack of better words) and you don't. We both think differently about these things and there's no way for us to prove them to each other, so there's no point in discussing it.



I simply said that because you are seemingly unable to take other people's beliefs into account and are only able to view the world from your perspective, so for the sake of this discussion I will view it from your perspective and assume that God exists even though I don't believe in him.




But how do they know that that is how are universe began began? Just because there are explosions now doesn't mean that they are how our universe originated.

No, space and humans are different.... that's obvious, no?



That describes how solar systems are made, not universes.




I've already explained how that works time and time again, yet you keep rejecting it. I can't convince you unless you're willing to accept new knowledge, but obviously you're not.




Just because they are both animals doesn't mean that they have the same genes.




Why are we perfect? And if we are organisms but not animals, then what biological classification do we fit under?



So Adam and Eve weren't the same kind of humans as us? They were Homo Habilis, the earliest species of humans?



Why not? Are you saying that animals can't feel? Are you saying that other animals have not become smarter over time?



So God makes mistakes?



So where did these similarities come from? We're all supposed to be unique, right?



I already explained, and you still reject it.



Actually I didn't, I just posted random articles from seemingly credible sources.



Now I get why you're rejecting this. You reject the established fact that humans are animals due to your beliefs, which isn't a bad thing, but it does prevent you from being able to learn and understand many things. This is what I meant earlier about people thinking they know everything because of their religion: they accept their religion as fact even though it might not necessarily be fact, so they don't feel the need to learn anything new about the subject. But it's your beliefs and you're free to follow them, although that does mean that all this time we spent discussing was pointless.

So I guess this discussion will have to end with the over-used cop out statement "You have your opinion and I have mine, so let's leave it at that."

Maybe it because they always referring to bible which has many variants.
Yes, this is different topic. But if you interested in this, do you mind to watch this priest story?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Unyg83194



But it did work with that sapiens or something right? and the time is enough for them to evolve, unless you can tell me how long it 'll take for a creature to evolve..





Agreed, I don't think we should talk about this. But since you said evolution is based from "random chance" so I brought this up.
And I do not referring to God, only to ancestors of human being.




Sorry I was being sarcastic there. But I do take any matter from both respective, what I want is evidence, or proof or anything that could make me believe...




Please read a book about Big Bang Theory and Astronomy.....



Universes cannot be made without solar system......




Have you explained about how's the Brains?
Not about the bigger brains or upright or something about "right genes" that made Apes could be like humans.
If you believe about that right genes, why NO ONE except Apes has those right genes or bigger brains or something that made it possible to become like human's brain?



Why only Apes who had that "right genes" ?


What I meant perfect is that we can think better than animals, able to create building and stuff like that. Of course humans also has flaws.




I absolutely did not say Adam and Eve weren't the same kind of humans as us. They were our absolute ancestors.
I did not say about Homo Habilis or something since I don't know what is that?




How do you prove that animals can feel?




I didn't say that. It just God decision to made some animals were similar but different entirely.



Like Boa or Anaconda all are snakes, no? I don't know much about evolution, you're the one who supposed tell me which one.
Why "we" are supposed to be unique?



About that upright, bigger brains and "right genes"? Sorry do you have another better explanation to make me believe?



Great, you said "I hope you like reading" and yet you didn't read it.
It wasting time, please don't make me read an article if you didn't even bother to read it.
And just to let you know, that article doesn't have anything that made me believe Humans are from Monkeys.



To be honest, actually my religions do not really care about this kind of evolution. As long as we pray to Him, it doesn't matter. Since that evolution is in the past. It doesn't effect at all in my religion. And there's no sins at all if I believe that evolution

Why I keep rejecting? Because I ultimately curious about "How come Humans were from Monkeys" question.
You keep asking me to read article which you didn't even read it, but yet I don't have enough to believe that evolution.
And I am open-minded, that's why I avoid to get deeper in God discussion. I trying to keep us are on track discuss this by relying to Scientific and logical explanations.

And do you have anymore facts from the official research or reports to proven that Humans are from Monkeys?
Of course, make sure you read it first. So you won't contradict to your own resources.
I'd love to read that resources if you have the genuine article

I already said it takes hundreds of thousands or even millions of years, depending on how much they change.




I can't make you believe, all I can do is explain and provide evidence. It is your choice whether to accept it or not.




I have, and there is no proof, only evidence, just like with evolution. There's lots of evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory just as there is a lot of evidence that we evolved from an ape.




Solar systems are not required to have a universe. A universe is simply defined as everything that physically exists. Even if there were only stars and no planets it would still be a universe.




The same reason why only birds and insects have wings, why only aquatic creatures have gills, why only mammals can produce milk. It is their unique trait.




Well you said that we evolved from earlier humans, and Homo Habilis is the earliest known species of humans. So if Adam and Eve were the first humans then they must have been of the Homo Habilis species, right? You do realize that there were many other species of humans besides Homo Sapiens don't you? Or are all of those earlier humans simply animals and can't be related to us?




If I kick a human, they will scream in pain. If I kick a dog, they will scream in pain. If I give a human some kind of reward, they will be happy. If I give a dog a reward, it will be happy. If you don't think animals can feel then you must have never interacted with any much.




Evolution doesn't explain why, it explains how. Apparently you do know much about evolution since you are so certain that we didn't evolve from other apes, and obviously you wouldn't think that way if you didn't know why.




I didn't read them thoroughly because they contained information I already knew. I just skimmed through them to make sure that they were actually about evolution.

And after reading through them, they still didn't provide any proof, only evidence and explanations like I've been doing. So what proof has convinced you that dogs, wolves, and foxes share a common ancestor?




But your religion tells you that we aren't animals, right? And since you don't believe we are animals then you can't believe that we came from animals.



And I keep explaining it to you but you wont accept it because you don't think that we are animals.




And yet you reject or don't understand any of the scientific information that I've provided you.



The sources that I gave you were "genuine," they were from scientists from universities who spent their whole lives studying these things. If you don't accept the information that they provide, then there is no way you could ever accept it.

Exactly what kind of "proof" are you looking for? Any and every source I could ever give you will have the same information that I've already provided you. So if that's not enough "proof" for you then nothing is, which is why I said this entire discussion is pointless because you are unwilling to accept the information that I've provided, which is made clear by the fact that you keep asking me the same questions over and over.

Yes you can. By providing me the proof.



It because Human's brain are special. Only our species has it and that's human. No one in universe have it except us.
Wings and Gills are possessed by many species of animals. Not only birds and insects, bats, chickens, ducks and many has wings. If you check it deeper, many also has gills. Not only fish .... octopus has it too.

But only Humans has this brains which able to make us think better than animals.



Sorry, I haven't heard anything about Homo Habilis. Only certain 'homo' I've only heard.
Yes, I know that many humans beside Homo sapiens, I didn't say it because I don't really know them. And they are humans, not animals.

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What I meant by feel is like how humans feel towards each other. Feel about empathy, sympathy, considerate and such thing like that.
Of course, not by kick them to make them feel hurt. Or reward, like giving them food, because that's their nature.

.

I was referring to the 'unique' you said. Not the evolution.


And that caused contradiction in your statement. By asking wolf, dog and fox.





Yes, my religion said we are not from animals. And since it's really vague, it really doesn't matter in my religion if that fact changed, I don't mind believing something reasonable and logical if that the truth.




I keep rejecting because.......... which logical explanation or scientific information you've provided me?
That article doesn't have any explanation about human's origin, only certain animals.
And I didn't get you explanations about Brains either... since it's not logic to me.



Yes, they were genuine. But it didn't explains a bit about Human's origin and there's no fact that humans are from monkeys in those article. I entirely believe in those article, though.

I keep asking because your answer were basically same and it didn't satisfy me. Especially about the Brains matter. If you could explain why only Apes brain evolved to be like human's brain, why other animals do not evolved their brains too?

The proof that has evidence, fact and the real truth that Humans are from monkeys. The sources that you might give me may have same information on it, since there's no genuine fact that humans are from monkeys ever in scientist world.
If you do have, please keep give me that information, if that really exists.

We're the only animals on Earth to have the brain power to stand above all other animals on earth, it is unknown about other planets with life on them, on some planet in another solar system, there could be an animal 10x smarter then us, or 2x smarter, or 100x smarter then we are.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_habilis <--- Read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution <--- Describes all the other "homo's" besides Homo Sapien(Us). Google them for further info.



Other animals have empathy, sympathy, and consideration besides humans.



Humans are animals, we're primates, great apes, and in the animal kingdom. Thus we are animals. we are in the same family as Chimps(we're also in the same tribe as chimps), gorillas, oranguntangs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae <--- Great apes. Includes humans.




Humans came from a prehistoric primate that existed millions of years ago.

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

You can consider Ardipithecus ramidus and anything before Ardipithecus ramidus to be prehistoric monkeys so to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardipithecus_ramidus

I've already explained many times that there is no proof, only evidence, and I've already explained the difference between the two.



I only used those as a general example, but I'll be more specific if you want:

A platypus is the only animal know with it's particular combination of traits: it is a mammal that lays eggs, it is poisonous, it has a duck-like bill and a beaver-like tail. It is the only animal with that exact combination of traits. There are many animals that have one or some of those traits, but no other animal has all of those traits. Every species of animal is the only species of animal with their exact combination of traits that make them unique, that is why they are separated into species. We are the only species of animal that has the exact combination of traits that allows us to be as smart as we are. Other animals have brains, and other animals similar traits that allow them to be smart, but none have the exact same traits that we do that allow us to be this smart compared to them, and that is why there is no animal as smart as us.



So you're agreeing that Adam and Eve were of the Homo Habilis species? Or at least that they weren't Homo Sapiens?



I don't know of any animals that are able to express those kinds of emotions, but they are not as emotionless as you make them seem. Some animals (mostly mammals as far as I know) mourn over dead animals that were close to them, which shows that they feel more complex emotions.



You lost me here.




I read through the article now, and they didn't provide any proof that wolves, dogs, and foxes are related, they only provided an explanation just as I have been doing. So what proof has convinced you that those three animals share a common ancestor?





It does matter because the concept of us evolving from other apes cannot apply to us if we aren't animals ourselves, and since you believe that we aren't animals then there is no way I could ever prove this to you.




The articles provided the scientific explanations (that I also attempted to provide in simpler terms) and, logically, if it can be applied to other animals because of their basic biological structures and functions (cells and genes), then it should apply to everything that has those basic biological structures, including us. That is why bacterial evolution can be used as proof that evolution occurs in all organisms, because they are cells with genes and all organisms have cells and genes, and evolution affects genes.

What is logic to you?



There was one that compared fossils of other apes to the fossils of early humans.



If they don't satisfy you then it's not my fault, it's your fault for not accepting the explanation. If you don't think the explanation is good enough then that's fine, I don't expect you to believe it.



What is "proof" to you? And what about the difference between proof and evidence don't you understand?

Fortunately, I have my mother's stubbornness.

Sorry for nor replying to each of your single quote.
But I just curious about one thing.



If you see closely, there are several question mark on this Time Table.
I wonder if that what we called "Missing Links"?


Yes, we know that. Human came from several millions of years ago which is Australopithecus.
But is that a monkeys?

The question marks mean its unknown, they either have a fossil for it, and can't connect it to any existing fossils, as is the case with sacelanthropus tchadensis and orrorin tugenesis, or it mean there should be a fossil to connect these species, but they don't currently have it, because it hasen't been found yet, as is the case where those 3 species come together at the question mark. the one between Australopithecus garhi and homo ergaster i dunno. Might mean they connect, but its uncertain.

I wouldn't consider Australopithecus a monkey, i'd consider it more of a proto-human.