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Post Reply Is it possible to make a Variable Fighter with today's tech?
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Posted 9/6/08

irflashrex wrote:


brennan wrote:


sheighton wrote:

Its already been said quite a few times, that when the profile of a craft (moving at speed) is changed in flight to suddenly create much larger amounts of drag, both the craft and the pilot would be subjected to rather significant G-forces ...


I just wanted to add ... significant G-Forces due to the sudden deceleration caused by drag, for the benefit of the less scientifcally minded here.



it must be said negative g-forces are more dangerous to people than positive. the man who discovered this had found all the capillaries in his eyes were busted and was blind for a while. negative g-forces can rip a man apart.




Still if you had the chance to try it out...... Would any of us be able to resist the opportunity of trying it out for ourselves?

I'd be the blind guy with blood filled eyes, lying in a hospital bed..... With a huge grin on my face!
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Posted 9/6/08 , edited 9/6/08

sheighton wrote:

Honestly, I don't see building a Veritech fighter as being impossible with today's technology....BUT I doubt that it would perform the same as a VF-1, nor do I think that such a craft would be pilot-able by anything other than a computer system. That said, it would also easily put the price tag on a F-22 or a JSF to shame...Anyways, that said, let me go into my speculation on what the biggest problems to overcome would be...

1) Powerplant: As already stated, a VF with its added bulk (armor, servo motors, and such for GERWALK and Battroid modes) would require a rather substantial propulsion system to still perform the way that one would hope for it to perform. I don't see this particular portion as being a problem...There are various forms of engines in existence that could serve one portion of each of the necessary roles. A conventional turbofan could serve the majority of atmospheric flight role, as with today's technology (afterburners and all) this could generate a large enough amount of thrust to keep a VF operating in an atmosphere. RAM jet, SCRAM jet, or pulse detonation would serve for high altitude / high speed flight, even reaching into space if an internal supply of oxygen and kerosene or hydrogen was used with a PDE. For most space flight, you could then have the craft switch over to an ion propulsion system (currently under development by NASA). Thrust vectoring is also a possibility and it exists to one degree or another on most of the world's top of the line fighters.

Now, that would give it essentially three different engine systems to deal with, adding weight and size to the craft. That and the need to find a way to make it operable for more than short periods of time would be a problem that engineers would have to work out, but in the end I still do think that you could make a fighter that would have the above propulsion capabilities...

2) Transformation: This is what I see as being one of the biggest problems. First of all, even if you did manage to cram in the necessary servomotors and such, and could get it to walk or fly, in-flight atmospheric transformation is pretty much out of the question. There really is one reason for this and that is the amount of force that would be exerted on the craft when it opens up in mid air. Also, the G-forces that a pilot would be subjected to in the near instantaneous deceleration would not be fun... >.< Think of it like when you are driving a convertible and you try to take the top down while driving...Now, transformation at slow speeds or in space might be plausible, but I highly doubt that you could get a smooth transformation in-flight at any significant speed that would not result in breaking the VF, blacking out the pilot, or crashing the VF...

3) Durability: It has already been addressed that this one would be a major issue. It would be quite easy to make a VF either lightweight and relatively weaker or to make it like a tank, but while adding significantly to its mass. Ideally, a VF would have to be made out of titanium, carbon composites, ceramics, and probably some form of exotic armor (silk steel from certain sci-fi realms comes to mind - practical application would be to take carbon fiber nanotubes and weave layer upon layer of a mesh-like material to create a lightweight, yet exceptionally strong and most likely VERY expensive armor).

4) Pilot Interface - Dexterity, Defense, ect: Again, this has already been pointed out as a problem, but I don't think that it is a problem for the same reason as the OP. Some modern robots are rather dexterous, BUT a VF is not a robot...The real problem that I see here is one of how to have the VF do what the pilot wants it to, the way the pilot wants it to. The problem that I see here is the interface between the pilot and the machine. How exactly are you going to control a VF that is not just a aerospace superiority fighter, but a transformable craft as well? How are you going to shoot down 20+ incoming missiles just by rapidly moving you eyes over them to target them? How are you going to control a VF so precisely that it is essentially an extension of your body, allowing you to fight in hand to hand combat, ect? THIS and this alone is what I see as being the biggest obstacle to surmount. My only solution to this is to develop a mind-machine interface that is currently far beyond what we currently have at our disposal. HOWEVER, the US military is currently researching a way of implementing invasive interfaces that would enhance the capabilities of combat troops (so at least the desire to further the technology is there)...

Conclusion: In short, I don't see it as being completely impossible with today's technology, but I do see it as being far from practical. I do believe though that it would definitely be within humanity's abilities within the next 50-100 years. If there is a desire for a VF and the money to back its development, there will be a VF developed in the 21st century. That said, though, I do believe that in many ways we are much closer to the practical development and fielding of a form of powered armor. Yes, think Starship Troopers and the Mobile Infantry, with their tank-like exoskeletons, jump jet capabilities, and immense firepower. In a sense, it is a similar concept to the Gundam/Battroid, just not nearly as large (though arguably equally powerful if it were to carry a rifle capable of launching small nukes, like it did in the book).

Anyways, to anyone who might think that timeline for my prediction is foolishly hopeful, let me just point out that at the turn of the 20th century, no one would have believed that tanks and planes and computers and robotics and many other technologies would have been possible any time in their near future. But the fact of the matter is that there were and still are some people who lived to see many of these technologies be developed in their very lifetimes...Human technology has been advancing at an ever accelerating rate and so just try to imagine what will be developed during this century. I'll bet you that it'll be beyond your wildest dreams... ^.^


I agree with Sheighton, but I say we have the tech ONLY to transform to GERWALK, but VERY slowly and legs move very slowly. And the VF we made now will have NO hands.

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Posted 9/10/08
So..many information about a Variable Fighter...nose bleed!! alot of mastermechanic about this things..
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Posted 9/10/08
If legs were put on a fighter, it would be used solely for standing... with today's techs anyway. With all the moving parts, I'd be surprised if they manage to put a rigid part to support the entire weight of the unit AND an engine in each leg, where the space would be very limited.

Very impractical, it is... Stick with landing gears, we must. XD
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Posted 9/11/08

brennan wrote:

Mixtech and I were talking a little about this and basically, it's come down to this.

Is it possible to construct a Variable Fighter with today's modern-day technology? Nevermind the VF-25 Messiah, let's start with the basic of the basics - the VF-1 Valkyrie.

Some basic stats on the VF-1 Valkryie (pulled from the Macross Compendium):

VF-1 Valkryie: (All-regime variable fighter and tactical combat battroid)
Design Features:

Variable Wing
VTOL Capability
4x Mobility of Destroid SPARTAN
Single Axis Thrust Vectoring
2x Shinnasaku Heavy Industry Thermonuclear Reaction Turbine Engines providing 25400 pounds of thrust each
At least 20 vernier thrusters for movement in space
Canopy HUD
Various Radio Antennas
AWG-20 radar FCS
Head Turret Mounted Hybrid Sensor / TV Eye
Combat Computer
Engine Control System
Fire Control System
Anti-Aircraft Laser Cannon mounted on head
55mm 3 barrel gattling gun pod, firing 200 rounds at 1200 rounds per minute
Fuselage reported to be tougher than a tank due to overtechnology


The reason humanity in Macross was able to create variable fighters was because of Overtechnology - the technology reverse engineered from SDF-1...I'm sure people have pointed that out already.

The other issue is even if we could build variable fighters today, the design would be far too complicated for it to be used effectively in war. In terms of maintenance and difficulty of production - think back to the German tanks of WW2...they were far superior to Allied tanks but their problem was that they were hard to build and even harder to maintain - Germany couldn't produce them fast enough to keep up with losses and on the field they were prone to malfunction and breakdowns. I think that is something we would face...superior technology is not necessarily an advantage...there is such a thing as "over" engineering.
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Posted 9/13/08

Agree'd. I do think that this has been mention before though.

Yeah currently it might be possible but not worth doing at all with our technology for current modern warfare. Way to many moving parts that will cause nothing but headache. Just look at a lot of the weapons we are still using today! The that have survived are the ones that are simple and easy to fix. Most complex weapons get dropped almost immediately. Crap look at the Osprey in naval use. The damn thing has been a work in progress since, what 1996ish? Some love it others hate it. field record is'nt bad but also has its flaws against it. I personally think it friggin awsome. But....not sure if I wanna put my life at risk being in one.

Anyway what I am getting at is. We are still at a point where transformable fighter tech is just a far to risky a thing for anyone to want to put their full trust into. And it will be for many, many years to come.

How bout we just start on ground assault mecha first before we go all out? lol

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Posted 9/13/08
now I just prove that crunchyroll is not just a place for stupid guys who watch anime like one of my "friend" said lol..so many good arguments ^^

well regarding the topic I think that it is not possible with the current technoloy but in the future I think it can be done..the hell it all started with a paper plane maybe?? and look what we have now we have now.. we got some of the feature of the variable fighters already save the "power supply", armor and transformation..

one things for sure though..

when it really does get made we would already be history..

Posted 6/12/09
maybe not. but maybe 2020.....
by the way, japan is making a gundam so, i dun think they would make a valkyrie.
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Posted 7/6/09
no, i dont think there is advanced transformation tech
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