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Philippines: Separation of Church from State
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25 / M / Vault 15, New Cal...
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Posted 7/14/08 , edited 7/18/08
Alright, my very first thread in the forums.

As most or maybe some of us know, the Philippines is one of the first democracies in Southeast Asia. Also this country of mine has Christian roots dating back to the 1500s.

And still, the Roman Catholic Church specifically, hasn't yet given up her influences in the government. Such are direct and/or indirect actions to prevent the amendment of certain legislative propositions, popular motivations to remove some politician off his post, etc.--I find the criticisms from the Roman Catholic brass tolerable, as well as some protests though.

All those things always get's attributed to the Church's "moral responsibility" to the government. And in the process, one of the tenets of democracy gets violated: the separation of the Church from the State, which means religion must keep off the government's lawn.

Let's talk about that issue here.

*Edit: Okay, so I certainly need to post my opinion on this matter. Well, I criticize the Roman Catholic church's leaders here inthe Philippines for, well in my opinion, a bit manipulative on political BS. They almost always try to influence our leaders' decisions, some of them sometimes suggesting as well as implementing religious punishment to those politicians they cannot agree with--on their moral standards of course.

PS. : I've been too lazy to check the index so, kindly please remind me if this thread is a duplicate. I'd be happy enough to close it and redirect the posters to the right place as long as you tell me how to do so.^^
Posted 7/14/08
I think the church and state should be separated...
The Church, I think, sometimes 'meddles' too much with government affairs. It should instead focus on how it could help the people - maybe not in terms of giving donations - but more on teaching the people proper values. The people, you will see, may attend mass and pray to God often, but you will see that they are contradicting themselves. They would sell outside the church, wear inappropriate clothing during the mass, curse, have wrong line of thinking, or God knows what else!
The church would always have a say in government issues, and it does get annoying sometimes...

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76 / Unreachable Dream...
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Posted 7/14/08 , edited 7/14/08
There is a feature called "SEARCH"

Filipino Discussion Thread:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-19133/Filipino-DISCUSSION-Thread-READ-FIRST-POST-POST-IN-ENGLISH-ONLY.html

Extended Discussion Section:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumcategory-16/Extended-Discussion.html
^^ For serious and extended discussions.



The church's influence in the government is fine with me. It is the one that held the people together in times of desperate poverty. Wasn't there a section in the constitution stating that the constitution is amendable, meaning things can be changed.
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25 / M / Vault 15, New Cal...
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Posted 7/14/08

mikomiko123 wrote:

There is a feature called "SEARCH"

Filipino Discussion Thread:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-19133/Filipino-DISCUSSION-Thread-READ-FIRST-POST-POST-IN-ENGLISH-ONLY.html

Extended Discussion Section:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumcategory-16/Extended-Discussion.html
^^ For serious and extended discussions.



The church's influence in the government is fine with me. It is the one that held the people together in times of desperate poverty. Wasn't there a section in the constitution stating that the constitution is amendable, meaning things can be changed.


Yes sure, there is. But sometimes, the clergy gets as politicky as those kleptomaniacs in the government, often preaching their political beliefs to the people.
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27 / M / New Delhi, India....
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Posted 7/14/08
Hell yeah!!!! I mean, come on, isn't this what countless Renaissance martyrs have died for? You never mix religion with politics! The Church is in charge of men's souls, they don't get to decide who we choose in the human life.
Posted 7/15/08
another thread full of arguements about religion =__=
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25 / M / Vault 15, New Cal...
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Posted 7/17/08

YojimboMifune wrote:

another thread full of arguements about religion =__=


This actually is not a religious thread. We're talking about democracy here and it's fading boundaries with religion.
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Posted 7/17/08
i noticed something a bit weird tho...

Philippines has only one saint
and 90% of its population is
Roman Catholic...

Japan i think has more than
one saint and a very small
percentage of its poulation
is Roman Catholic...
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Posted 7/17/08
It's never a nice thing when government and religion mix.
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Posted 7/18/08

steiner_hardy wrote:

Alright, my very first thread in the forums.

As most or maybe some of us know, the Philippines is one of the first democracies in Southeast Asia. Also this country of mine has Christian roots dating back to the 1500s.

And still, the Roman Catholic Church specifically, hasn't yet given up her influences in the government. Such are direct and/or indirect actions to prevent the amendment of certain legislative propositions, popular motivations to remove some politician off his post, etc.--I find the criticisms from the Roman Catholic brass tolerable, as well as some protests though.

All those things always get's attributed to the Church's "moral responsibility" to the government. And in the process, one of the tenets of democracy gets violated: the separation of the Church from the State, which means religion must keep off the government's lawn.

Let's talk about that issue here.

*Edit: Okay, so I certainly need to post my opinion on this matter. Well, I criticize the Roman Catholic church here in the Philippines, most especially it's local leaders for being, well in my opinion, a bit manipulative on political BS. They almost always try to influence our leaders' decisions, some of them sometimes suggesting as well as implementing religious punishment to those politicians they cannot agree with--on their moral standards of course.

PS. : I've been too lazy to check the index so, kindly please remind me if this thread is a duplicate. I'd be happy enough to close it and redirect the posters to the right place as long as you tell me how to do so.^^



To shorten my long opinion, The church didn't really intend to get involved with the state(governement), it's just that the church sees the flaws, injustices, etc. that are being done by the state.
For me, I have no against with our bishops, archbishops, priests and other religious orders who always interfere with our state because if they don't, the dark side of the state would never stop. Therefore, the church's doing is not a sin.

The situation is like this:
State: Bakit nyo ba kami pinakikialaman sa takbo ng gobyerno natin?!
Church: Eh pano namin kayo hindi pakikialaman eh, nakikita namin ang maling ginagawa nyo?!




Source:
from my Theology: Philippine Church history subject I've taken a year ago.



@steiner_hardy: it's bad to criticized the Roman Catholic here in the Philippines. You are criticizing it because the pride inside of you bloomed which is the root of the sin. If you criticize the Catholic church ergo you don't respect that religion. Please respect one another's religion to remain peaceful.
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25 / M / Vault 15, New Cal...
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Posted 7/18/08

Mwelle wrote:


steiner_hardy wrote:

Alright, my very first thread in the forums.

As most or maybe some of us know, the Philippines is one of the first democracies in Southeast Asia. Also this country of mine has Christian roots dating back to the 1500s.

And still, the Roman Catholic Church specifically, hasn't yet given up her influences in the government. Such are direct and/or indirect actions to prevent the amendment of certain legislative propositions, popular motivations to remove some politician off his post, etc.--I find the criticisms from the Roman Catholic brass tolerable, as well as some protests though.

All those things always get's attributed to the Church's "moral responsibility" to the government. And in the process, one of the tenets of democracy gets violated: the separation of the Church from the State, which means religion must keep off the government's lawn.

Let's talk about that issue here.

*Edit: Okay, so I certainly need to post my opinion on this matter. Well, I criticize the Roman Catholic church here in the Philippines, most especially it's local leaders for being, well in my opinion, a bit manipulative on political BS. They almost always try to influence our leaders' decisions, some of them sometimes suggesting as well as implementing religious punishment to those politicians they cannot agree with--on their moral standards of course.

PS. : I've been too lazy to check the index so, kindly please remind me if this thread is a duplicate. I'd be happy enough to close it and redirect the posters to the right place as long as you tell me how to do so.^^



To shorten my long opinion, The church didn't really intend to get involved with the state(governement), it's just that the church sees the flaws, injustices, etc. that are being done by the state.
For me, I have no against with our bishops, archbishops, priests and other religious orders who always interfere with our state because if they don't, the dark side of the state would never stop. Therefore, the church's doing is not a sin.

The situation is like this:
State: Bakit nyo ba kami pinakikialaman sa takbo ng gobyerno natin?!
Church: Eh pano namin kayo hindi pakikialaman eh, nakikita namin ang maling ginagawa nyo?!




Source:
from my Theology: Philippine Church history subject I've taken a year ago.



@steiner_hardy: it's bad to criticized the Roman Catholic here in the Philippines. You are criticizing it because the pride inside of you bloomed which is the root of the sin. If you criticize the Catholic church ergo you don't respect that religion. Please respect one another's religion to remain peaceful.


Umm, I believe I was quite misinterpreted...So I've edited that opinion part there to make things clear. My criticism in there is supposedly meant for the leaders and not to the Church as a whole and I absolutely mean no offense or disrespect in there--even if I have those, I'll keep them to myself for tranquil's sake. I respect people's religion no matter how I dislike it. BTW, how wrong and rude is expressing one's opinion against religious leaders?
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Posted 7/18/08

steiner_hardy wrote:


Mwelle wrote:


steiner_hardy wrote:

Alright, my very first thread in the forums.

As most or maybe some of us know, the Philippines is one of the first democracies in Southeast Asia. Also this country of mine has Christian roots dating back to the 1500s.

And still, the Roman Catholic Church specifically, hasn't yet given up her influences in the government. Such are direct and/or indirect actions to prevent the amendment of certain legislative propositions, popular motivations to remove some politician off his post, etc.--I find the criticisms from the Roman Catholic brass tolerable, as well as some protests though.

All those things always get's attributed to the Church's "moral responsibility" to the government. And in the process, one of the tenets of democracy gets violated: the separation of the Church from the State, which means religion must keep off the government's lawn.

Let's talk about that issue here.

*Edit: Okay, so I certainly need to post my opinion on this matter. Well, I criticize the Roman Catholic church here in the Philippines, most especially it's local leaders for being, well in my opinion, a bit manipulative on political BS. They almost always try to influence our leaders' decisions, some of them sometimes suggesting as well as implementing religious punishment to those politicians they cannot agree with--on their moral standards of course.

PS. : I've been too lazy to check the index so, kindly please remind me if this thread is a duplicate. I'd be happy enough to close it and redirect the posters to the right place as long as you tell me how to do so.^^



To shorten my long opinion, The church didn't really intend to get involved with the state(governement), it's just that the church sees the flaws, injustices, etc. that are being done by the state.
For me, I have no against with our bishops, archbishops, priests and other religious orders who always interfere with our state because if they don't, the dark side of the state would never stop. Therefore, the church's doing is not a sin.

The situation is like this:
State: Bakit nyo ba kami pinakikialaman sa takbo ng gobyerno natin?!
Church: Eh pano namin kayo hindi pakikialaman eh, nakikita namin ang maling ginagawa nyo?!




Source:
from my Theology: Philippine Church history subject I've taken a year ago.



@steiner_hardy: it's bad to criticized the Roman Catholic here in the Philippines. You are criticizing it because the pride inside of you bloomed which is the root of the sin. If you criticize the Catholic church ergo you don't respect that religion. Please respect one another's religion to remain peaceful.


Umm, I believe I was quite misinterpreted...So I've edited that opinion part there to make things clear. My criticism in there is supposedly meant for the leaders and not to the Church as a whole and I absolutely mean no offense or disrespect in there--even if I have those, I'll keep them to myself for tranquil's sake. I respect people's religion no matter how I dislike it. BTW, how wrong and rude is expressing one's opinion against religious leaders?



This made things clear that you’ve changed your statement. If you’re religion is catholic, you would understand how’s going on between the church and state in our country. (Maybe I’m saying this because I taking theology subjects.)
It’s free to express opinions. It becomes bad if your opinion is false in the eyes of God. If you say your opinion directly to the Catholic religious leaders I’m sure they will probably defend it. Don’t compare the influence of the early catholic religion in our present time. Their influence before was negative, even Rizal didn’t like it. Not only in the Philippines had this kind of situation before even the high priests of each Christian dominated country also gave influenced in their governments. The difference from before to the present time is that because the Catholic Church has changed from Vatican I, time of Renaissance. Now, the Vatican II which was established during the 1900’s.

Anyway, if the Filipino people noticed this before, after the Vatican II was already established, the Catholic religious leaders would stop their intervention with the government.

I don’t care if they keep on interfering the government and Politician’s rules, because no matter how hard the Catholic Church interfere, the head of a Politician will always be thicker than stone. The politicians kept listening to the Church’s reminders but still they won’t stop their old habits. That’s reality of this country. Why I would still care?

I don’t actually waste my time talking about the issue between the church and government because it’s no big deal with the Filipino Christian people. I never heard them accused the church for involving their selves in the government.
If you want your opinion to be heard, then speak them up on the government official site forum. Most of registered members there are professional adults and some of them are lawyers. This topic is an old issue. Most people don’t mind it anyway.


Are you a polsci major that’s why you are interested in talking about this thing? If you have a lot of questions between the church and state better ask some politicians and priests in you local area.

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27 / M / California
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Posted 7/18/08 , edited 7/18/08
Church doesn't really help on politics or neither help on the economy.. so they must be separated from each other.. They're just leeching money from the Government
Posted 7/18/08
I swear every Filipino is religious!
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Posted 7/18/08
I'm a Filipino and I'm a Christian, and darn proud of it! I'm a firm believer that the church and state should be separated!!
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