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Corvette ZR-1 Nurburgring lap
Posted 7/18/08 , edited 7/18/08
surely who every buys this car is bonkers? the americans have gone mad. for that price.....
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Posted 7/18/08
I'd buy the ZR1. For it's MSRP price. Not that 400k crap. 400k would get me a nice house.
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Posted 7/18/08

Ensenga wrote:


RossoCorsa wrote:

However, Nurburgring is pretty much Nissan's territory, so i'm more interested in how Nissan's V-Spec GTR's will perform.

I got the biggest kick when sooooooooo many Chevy owners were partying like mad when the Cobalt SS beat the R32 GTR in time attack. First thing i started saying was "Awesome!!! Chevy finally was able to beat an over 15 year old car!!!"




Uhh what? Nissan's territory? GM's practically rented an apartment there since they started developing the first CTS...

And no one who has ever driven a Viper has put it in the mid-life crisis category...




riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Are you sure you aren't mixing it up with LeMans? I'll admit that Chevy vettes could pretty much build a highrise there since they practically own it every year (though the aston martins have been gettin' close.) Nurburgring? nope. They've been mid listed for a while and even then they keep sinking steadily.

as for the viper, okay how about this? one category is for midlife crisis and the other is for kids who have never seen a supercar besides a viper before. better?

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Posted 7/18/08

JohnR32 wrote:

surely who every buys this car is bonkers? the americans have gone mad. for that price.....


Well the big 3 are releasing revamped versions of their flagship muscle cars now...

just like Japan is now releasing theirs.

I'm looking forward to the LF-A and the new NSX.

GTR's problem is anything you do to it voids the warranty, even rims. Aftermarket companies can do bolt-ons, but any aftermarket tuning or whatever is definitely frowned upon. Certain models even come with gps tracker that shows when you go over 100mph and shuts down the car while *possibly* calling local authorities or dealer.

...but then again Nissan is still working on the GTR V-Spec, which imo will def. be more mod friendly and also be able to slap the bowtie back down to neck level: with the big boys, but not the top.
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Posted 7/18/08

RossoCorsa wrote:


Ensenga wrote:


RossoCorsa wrote:

However, Nurburgring is pretty much Nissan's territory, so i'm more interested in how Nissan's V-Spec GTR's will perform.

I got the biggest kick when sooooooooo many Chevy owners were partying like mad when the Cobalt SS beat the R32 GTR in time attack. First thing i started saying was "Awesome!!! Chevy finally was able to beat an over 15 year old car!!!"




Uhh what? Nissan's territory? GM's practically rented an apartment there since they started developing the first CTS...

And no one who has ever driven a Viper has put it in the mid-life crisis category...




riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Are you sure you aren't mixing it up with LeMans? I'll admit that Chevy vettes could pretty much build a highrise there since they practically own it every year (though the aston martins have been gettin' close.) Nurburgring? nope. They've been mid listed for a while and even then they keep sinking steadily.

as for the viper, okay how about this? one category is for midlife crisis and the other is for kids who have never seen a supercar besides a viper before. better?



I'm not entirely sure what exactly it is you're saying. If you're talking about racing on the ring then you may have a point. However my point was nearly every sports or sporty car GM have developed in the past few years has seen development time there. Think about it, the CTS and the V, the Trailblazer SS, the Camaro, the Z06 to name most of the stuff from GMNA, and that's not even considering GM Europe. Its safe to say GM knows a thing or two about the nurburgring.

And I'm damn sure you've never even met someone who drives a Viper, they are NOT the kind of cars for the midlife crisis crowd, they're far too punishing. That whole statement just pushes the limits of whats acceptable for a sweeping generalization.

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Posted 7/18/08

veyron1001 wrote: Do you know why the Nissan skyline GTR / Nissan GT R is not used much in racing? Its because its banned from almost all forms of racing because the car did too well and destroyed the competition even in its own race class. Its advance awd system allowed for very late braking into turns and its twin turbo engine allowed the car the quickly accelerate out of corners starting near the apex of the turn which is ideal racing strategy in the corners. Rwd cars cant do that so there would be major understeer into the turn and a potential spinout near the exit of the turn if not careful throttle control at the exit.


Tell me something that isn't regurgitated information. The GT-R isn't used because it doesn't comply with any of the motorsports rules and regulations. Also your generalization on RWD GT dynamics sound like they are from the principles of the 90s because things have changed since the first R32 GT-R started racing in the circuits.
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Posted 7/18/08

rp997 wrote:


veyron1001 wrote: Do you know why the Nissan skyline GTR / Nissan GT R is not used much in racing? Its because its banned from almost all forms of racing because the car did too well and destroyed the competition even in its own race class. Its advance awd system allowed for very late braking into turns and its twin turbo engine allowed the car the quickly accelerate out of corners starting near the apex of the turn which is ideal racing strategy in the corners. Rwd cars cant do that so there would be major understeer into the turn and a potential spinout near the exit of the turn if not careful throttle control at the exit.


Tell me something that isn't regurgitated information. The GT-R isn't used because it doesn't comply with any of the motorsports rules and regulations. Also your generalization on RWD GT dynamics sound like they are from the principles of the 90s because things have changed since the first R32 GT-R started racing in the circuits.


Yea there is a reason too because it gives the car an unfair advantage against the other drive terrain types thats why its a regulation. Ok go ahead and try to brake while into a turn just like an awd car and wot just after the apex I almost guarantee a spin out, front brakes lock and/or a really slow corner exit from massive understeer.
Posted 7/19/08

RossoCorsa wrote:

GTR's problem is anything you do to it voids the warranty, even rims. Aftermarket companies can do bolt-ons, but any aftermarket tuning or whatever is definitely frowned upon. Certain models even come with gps tracker that shows when you go over 100mph and shuts down the car while *possibly* calling local authorities or dealer.

...but then again Nissan is still working on the GTR V-Spec, which imo will def. be more mod friendly and also be able to slap the bowtie back down to neck level: with the big boys, but not the top.


i had no idea about the gps tracker. i thought it was just the speed that was limited. any source would be useful, thanks

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Posted 7/19/08

Ensenga wrote:


RossoCorsa wrote:


Ensenga wrote:


RossoCorsa wrote:

However, Nurburgring is pretty much Nissan's territory, so i'm more interested in how Nissan's V-Spec GTR's will perform.

I got the biggest kick when sooooooooo many Chevy owners were partying like mad when the Cobalt SS beat the R32 GTR in time attack. First thing i started saying was "Awesome!!! Chevy finally was able to beat an over 15 year old car!!!"




Uhh what? Nissan's territory? GM's practically rented an apartment there since they started developing the first CTS...

And no one who has ever driven a Viper has put it in the mid-life crisis category...




riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Are you sure you aren't mixing it up with LeMans? I'll admit that Chevy vettes could pretty much build a highrise there since they practically own it every year (though the aston martins have been gettin' close.) Nurburgring? nope. They've been mid listed for a while and even then they keep sinking steadily.

as for the viper, okay how about this? one category is for midlife crisis and the other is for kids who have never seen a supercar besides a viper before. better?



I'm not entirely sure what exactly it is you're saying. If you're talking about racing on the ring then you may have a point. However my point was nearly every sports or sporty car GM have developed in the past few years has seen development time there. Think about it, the CTS and the V, the Trailblazer SS, the Camaro, the Z06 to name most of the stuff from GMNA, and that's not even considering GM Europe. Its safe to say GM knows a thing or two about the nurburgring.

And I'm damn sure you've never even met someone who drives a Viper, they are NOT the kind of cars for the midlife crisis crowd, they're far too punishing. That whole statement just pushes the limits of whats acceptable for a sweeping generalization.



Yes i'm talking about the actual time attack references via the actual ring.

As far as GM"s development, that's where i missed your point. When someone says they've set up camp, generally first thing people think about is them practically "owning" nurburgring by constant wins and redemptions. But really, GM"s always been one step behind. If they up their engine power, their electronics and suspension/chassis suffers. if it's about contacting power to pavement, the brakes would go out. There has always been some sort of mishap that always put GM far behind other automakers. Now, i'm not going to even try bringing in GM's euro lines (I believe Holden is one of them) because honestly i don't even consider those actual GM divisions. Certainly that can be argued, but I'm really to tired to strengthen any type of commentary against it let alone for it.

And yes, I have met people who've owned vipers. most are middle-aged or older adults or suddenly successful workplace enthusiasts who simply made a lot of cash to boot, but not enough to get something like a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

punishing? why yes. They're annoying for daily driving, have as bad a visibility as i can compare to a countach, and really, the only people honestly impressed by a viper is either Big-3 loyal kids or the adults i described above. oh, and maybe the occasional female (sometimes male?) slut.

It seems to me either you know someone who owns a viper that's a good person in general with his/her own lifestyle, or you're the one who only knows viper owners who are either video game characters or are salesman/dealers/advertisers.

as for my statement pushing limits, pushing limits of what? a generalization versus an individual belief?
If that's what you mean then hell yes i'm very happy with going beyond that limit and just straight up telling you it's a bluegrass dreamcar that takes a hell lot of customization to do anything, and even then does little on the reliability issues. Some try arguing me about the henn. vipers / venoms/ blahblahblah or the Vakamon/Benihana time attack/drift viper. Again, both cars modded up the ass to no longer be anywhere near the actual production model.

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Posted 7/19/08

veyron1001 wrote: Ok go ahead and try to brake while into a turn just like an awd car and wot just after the apex I almost guarantee a spin out, front brakes lock and/or a really slow corner exit from massive understeer.


Are you saying that all cars that are rear-wheel drive have this behavior no matter what? That a racing model, despite that it is a racing model, exhibits this behavior? Cars are not so black and white when it comes to dynamics.

If the GT-R raced in a FIA or ACO setting, I doubt it would dominate because the motorsports landscape is so much different. Tire manufacturers have radically different tire compounds and constructions today compared to even 6 years ago. Aerodynamic packages are of course a lot better than even compared to the early 2000s. Once the GT-R races in these international series rather than a single domestic series then will I having some positive to say abouts its 'racing' history.
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Posted 7/19/08

RossoCorsa wrote:


Yes i'm talking about the actual time attack references via the actual ring.

As far as GM"s development, that's where i missed your point. When someone says they've set up camp, generally first thing people think about is them practically "owning" nurburgring by constant wins and redemptions. But really, GM"s always been one step behind. If they up their engine power, their electronics and suspension/chassis suffers. if it's about contacting power to pavement, the brakes would go out. There has always been some sort of mishap that always put GM far behind other automakers. Now, i'm not going to even try bringing in GM's euro lines (I believe Holden is one of them) because honestly i don't even consider those actual GM divisions. Certainly that can be argued, but I'm really to tired to strengthen any type of commentary against it let alone for it.

And yes, I have met people who've owned vipers. most are middle-aged or older adults or suddenly successful workplace enthusiasts who simply made a lot of cash to boot, but not enough to get something like a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

punishing? why yes. They're annoying for daily driving, have as bad a visibility as i can compare to a countach, and really, the only people honestly impressed by a viper is either Big-3 loyal kids or the adults i described above. oh, and maybe the occasional female (sometimes male?) slut.

It seems to me either you know someone who owns a viper that's a good person in general with his/her own lifestyle, or you're the one who only knows viper owners who are either video game characters or are salesman/dealers/advertisers.

as for my statement pushing limits, pushing limits of what? a generalization versus an individual belief?
If that's what you mean then hell yes i'm very happy with going beyond that limit and just straight up telling you it's a bluegrass dreamcar that takes a hell lot of customization to do anything, and even then does little on the reliability issues. Some try arguing me about the henn. vipers / venoms/ blahblahblah or the Vakamon/Benihana time attack/drift viper. Again, both cars modded up the ass to no longer be anywhere near the actual production model.



I'm going to assume you're putting this in the context of just everyday vehicles right? But which ones exactly?

Its harsh riding, has next to no sound insulation, and very tricky on the limit. However I doubt the visibility claims, obviously it isn't a problem in the soft top, and the Countach was like a coffin on wheels, I doubt the Viper is anywhere near that hard to see out of. If you aren't impressed with it I doubt anything anyone can say to you will change that, but for thought, the only comparison I can find for the recent model has it edging out both a Gallardo SL and a GT3RS around the same track.

And see that's the problem with your analysis, simply being middle aged and owning a Viper does not make the Viper a mid-life crisis car. Suppose they did have enough money for a Ferrari, it simply being a Ferrari wouldn't really change anything.
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Posted 7/19/08
so much fanboyism going on in this thread.

kudos to any car that laps the nurb'/nord' faster than the last guy. the ZR-1 is very cool. It may not be completely GM as a lot of the parts on it are actually European, but it's still a great car, and a performance benchmark to be reckoned with.

A lot of you need to get out from behind your computers and stop spitting out information you've seen in car reviews or videos to make your arguments. That's called magazine racing, and that isn't cool.

especially veyron1001, you sound like a total n00b.
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Posted 7/19/08

gripracer wrote:

so much fanboyism going on in this thread.

kudos to any car that laps the nurb'/nord' faster than the last guy. the ZR-1 is very cool. It may not be completely GM as a lot of the parts on it are actually European, but it's still a great car, and a performance benchmark to be reckoned with.

A lot of you need to get out from behind your computers and stop spitting out information you've seen in car reviews or videos to make your arguments. That's called magazine racing, and that isn't cool.

especially veyron1001, you sound like a total n00b.


Ok since you know so much then explain to me how a 480hp 1735kg Nissan GTR was just under 3 sec behind the 1500kg 638hp Corvette ZR1 then.
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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

veyron1001 wrote:

Ok since you know so much then explain to me how a 480hp 1735kg Nissan GTR was just under 3 sec behind the 1500kg 638hp Corvette ZR1 then.


The rev limiter of the ZR1 was stuck at 5500rpms on the last long straight of the 'ring. I imagine that makes a difference of a few seconds on the final lap time, seeing as its the fastest section.

But besides that, 3 seconds is ALREADY a big gap, kiddo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

That's all the explaination you need.

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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

gripracer wrote:


veyron1001 wrote:

Ok since you know so much then explain to me how a 480hp 1735kg Nissan GTR was just under 3 sec behind the 1500kg 638hp Corvette ZR1 then.


The ZR1 doesn't have an incredible traction control system like the GTR.

Also, the rev limiter of the ZR1 was stuck at 5500rpms on the last long straight of the 'ring. I imagine that makes a difference of a few seconds on the final lap time, seeing as its the fastest section.

But besides all of that, 3 seconds is ALREADY a big gap, kiddo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

That's all the explaination you need.



But the GT-R doesn't have a fancy magnetic ride system like the ZR-1. We can have the "But the car A doesn't have X like car B does".
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