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Corvette ZR-1 Nurburgring lap
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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

gripracer wrote:


veyron1001 wrote:

Ok since you know so much then explain to me how a 480hp 1735kg Nissan GTR was just under 3 sec behind the 1500kg 638hp Corvette ZR1 then.


The ZR1 doesn't have an incredible traction control system like the GTR.

Also, the rev limiter of the ZR1 was stuck at 5500rpms on the last long straight of the 'ring. I imagine that makes a difference of a few seconds on the final lap time, seeing as its the fastest section.

But besides all of that, 3 seconds is ALREADY a big gap, kiddo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

That's all the explaination you need.



Do you know how long the Nurburgring is? Its 20.6km long. You can probable read the back of the liscence plate of the car that is a little over 2 sec ahead of you. The Nurburgring is not a smooth track as you can see and with wind and air resistance would cause the car to not reach top speed. If you knew a bit about cars traction control would slow the car down when trying to go around a track as fast you could. It was the cars advance "AWD" system that made the car perform so well. Based on the specs of the car it shouldnt have performed any better than 8min around the ring.
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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

revolutionofone wrote:

But the GT-R doesn't have a fancy magnetic ride system like the ZR-1. We can have the "But the car A doesn't have X like car B does".


Let me correct my original post.

Fixed.

Looks like it's still 100% valid.
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Posted 7/19/08 , edited 7/19/08

veyron1001 wrote:
Do you know how long the Nurburgring is? Its 20.6km long. You can probable read the back of the liscence plate of the car that is a little over 2 sec ahead of you. The Nurburgring is not a smooth track as you can see and with wind and air resistance would cause the car to not reach top speed. If you knew a bit about cars traction control would slow the car down when trying to go around a track as fast you could. It was the cars advance "AWD" system that made the car perform so well. Based on the specs of the car it shouldnt have performed any better than 8min around the ring.


If i knew a bit about cars? good jokes.

You asked my why there was a 3 second gap, and I told you why. No need for you to repeat what everyone knows about the GTR, I didn't ask.

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Posted 7/20/08
Why are you guys comparing cars in EXTREMELY different price ranges? sure, there are a lot of cars out there that are better than the GTR(ZR-1 probably one of them), i just don't think it's fair to compare a car that costs 70k to a car that could cost anywhere from 3 times to 6 times as much. besides, ZR-1 is being made after the GTR debut, so the ZR-1 could have been changed from the original design just to beat the GTR. who knows?
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Posted 7/20/08

krazyjapgenius wrote:

Why are you guys comparing cars in EXTREMELY different price ranges? sure, there are a lot of cars out there that are better than the GTR(ZR-1 probably one of them), i just don't think it's fair to compare a car that costs 70k to a car that could cost anywhere from 3 times to 6 times as much. besides, ZR-1 is being made after the GTR debut, so the ZR-1 could have been changed from the original design just to beat the GTR. who knows?


The ZR-1 was in development before the GT-R hit the Nurburgring and probably before it even debuted.

We can't compare a 70k supercar to a 400k supercar, but we can compare cars that are being tuned to tackle the Nurburgring. That in itself allows us to compare both cars side by side. Just because they're in different price leagues doesn't mean they're in different performance leagues, as the GT-R not only spanked a near $200,000 Porsche and a $350,000 Pagani. Does that mean I can't compare the GT-R to either even though the GT-R is faster than both?
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Posted 7/20/08

revolutionofone wrote:


krazyjapgenius wrote:

Why are you guys comparing cars in EXTREMELY different price ranges? sure, there are a lot of cars out there that are better than the GTR(ZR-1 probably one of them), i just don't think it's fair to compare a car that costs 70k to a car that could cost anywhere from 3 times to 6 times as much. besides, ZR-1 is being made after the GTR debut, so the ZR-1 could have been changed from the original design just to beat the GTR. who knows?


The ZR-1 was in development before the GT-R hit the Nurburgring and probably before it even debuted.

We can't compare a 70k supercar to a 400k supercar, but we can compare cars that are being tuned to tackle the Nurburgring. That in itself allows us to compare both cars side by side. Just because they're in different price leagues doesn't mean they're in different performance leagues, as the GT-R not only spanked a near $200,000 Porsche and a $350,000 Pagani. Does that mean I can't compare the GT-R to either even though the GT-R is faster than both?


While the ZR1 was in development before the GTR debut, the design for the production model was NOT finalized by the time the GTR debuted, or even by the time the GTR went on sale, which is why i was speculating that the ZR1's design may have been changed from the original after the GTR debuted.

I don't think either of these cars were tuned specifically to tackle the Nurburgring, just the Nurburgring is being used to measure how well the car performs. And i'm not saying you can't compare cars in different price ranges, i was just reading the posts and all the comparisons were with the GTR, none with cars in it's own price range, even when other cars have gotten faster times than the GTR on Nurburgring. And you're right, different price ranges don't equal different performance leagues, but the specs of the cars do show a significant advantage for the ZR1, which I would think equates to a difference in performance. just the way GTR is way above it's price range in performance, the ZR1 could be the same.

btw, does anyone know if there is any truth behind the rumors that the GTR v-spec ran the Nurburgring in 7:25?
Posted 7/21/08
dont believe any times for the v spec as it will not be reliable, its best to wait for it to come out..
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Posted 7/21/08
I'm noticing a few things about this thread

1) The MSRP of the vette is 100k. It is not a 400k car, that is how much the dealer is charging. I'm sure some nissan dealer will charge 300k for a GTR but that doesn't make the GTR a 300k car now does it?

2) As far as racing history goes, the vette has it hands down. The GTR has never been competitive on the world scale in racing. Sure the road car is amazing but all that technology means it's actually ineligible for many series. And no the rules weren't rewritten because of the GTR, they were rewritten by other cars years before the GTR. Audi's quattro system slaughtered the competition in rallying, and was starting to be brought over into road racing, and made many series outright ban AWD until proper balances could be thought of. This was in the mid eighties, right before the R32 came out so yeah, automatically ineligible. Turbos have been recieving penalties compared to NAs for the past 40 years or so, further complicating things. Electronic aids only recently caught on and I wouldn't be surprised if traction control was banned when the R32 came out. And again, the Group B rally cars might be to blame. Porsche's 959 would've eaten everything alive had it been allowed to race and it's specs read similar to the R32 that came out a few years later - twin turbo 6, AWD, advanced electronic aids.

3) These are two very different cars and really must be compared against different competition. The Vette is brute force, plain and simple. The pushrod V8 wasn't making enough power so they just slapped a supercharger on her, and beefed it up form there. Really the true performance of the vette is that it can be driven everyday with ease and then let loose on the track whenever you please.

The GTR is a technological wonder, truely the flagship of all nissan knows and the shape of things to come. It has every bell and whistle possible so that you can squeeze every drop out of the car at any time. This car was pretty much built with one purpose in mind: Attack every road in sight.


That being said, I am not surprised at all the vette is slower than the GTR and I think it put in a very respectable time. Now I will also not be surprised when the GTR's that are driven everyday have astronomical maintenance costs. Just don't expect the guy who only pulls his out on track day to lose to your vette.

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Posted 7/21/08

DJKinetica wrote:

I'm noticing a few things about this thread

2) As far as racing history goes, the vette has it hands down. The GTR has never been competitive on the world scale in racing. Sure the road car is amazing but all that technology means it's actually ineligible for many series. And no the rules weren't rewritten because of the GTR, they were rewritten by other cars years before the GTR. Audi's quattro system slaughtered the competition in rallying, and was starting to be brought over into road racing, and made many series outright ban AWD until proper balances could be thought of. This was in the mid eighties, right before the R32 came out so yeah, automatically ineligible. Turbos have been recieving penalties compared to NAs for the past 40 years or so, further complicating things. Electronic aids only recently caught on and I wouldn't be surprised if traction control was banned when the R32 came out. And again, the Group B rally cars might be to blame. Porsche's 959 would've eaten everything alive had it been allowed to race and it's specs read similar to the R32 that came out a few years later - twin turbo 6, AWD, advanced electronic aids.


Rules in motorsports are always changing. Usually it is to cut costs and increase safety. This is the issue why F1 let go of traction and launch controls, which next year the FIA plans to impose aerodynamic regulations that will lessen the cost of development with a structured aero-package.

The ACO and IMSA are rumored to disband the GT1 class because of the extreme costs that effect most privateer teams running such cars. This and last season the GT1 field in the ALMS is consistently fielded by Corvette Racing. Chances are it will be replaced by the GT2 class, which makes room for the GT3 class to come in as the 'lesser' sports car group.

Solid overall post DJ as it really covers the various perspectives of the GT-R and Corvette.
Posted 8/10/08

YagamiLight wrote:

did you read the link?


other sources tell me its about $100k. it just cant be 400k, for that to happen every person on earth would have to rip out their hearts feed it to the pidgeons before killing someone else. Once that happens then it'll be worth every penny!
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Posted 10/4/08
well this is to all those who wud say that Nissan/Skyline/GTR has little racing history. you can look into the history of EACH race track in the world and find that they all have been numerously changed/modify in the past 10 years or so. it was after the skyline(s) was owning the competitions that the rules/regulations begin changing, and eventually they were banned. that is y you dont see Skylines in the track. the only place left is drifting and illegal street lol

The only place where u can find the Skyline race cars is JGTC (or mainly Japan race tracks), also there u will notice that they dont really BAN cars at all (regulations that BARELY bans any car). Why? b/cuz they r not as scared as the rest of the world is, they pretty much WELCOME challenges. in lots of vids on youtube u can even see (in japan, unofficial races, but with EXPERIENCED drivers) the gtr going against the z06, 911, etc and come out on top on most of them. and i think there was one of them with the gtr against the lambo lp650 (i think).

Best thing to do to get the Skyline/GTR on the track (offically) is to write millions of letters to the BIG racing leagues and hopefully they change their regulations...or easier way is protesting. neither way it will be a long time before the skyline/gtr can come out of hte JGTC and race in with the rest of the world. I would personally like to see the skyline in the Le Mans (hope its spell that way) and the rest of the race tracks the world offers

Overall, my main statement is that the Skyline was ban only AFTER it started blowing the competition away, just like Mazda's 767 but we should keep that quiet too.
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Posted 10/4/08

xiongboy wrote:

well this is to all those who wud say that Nissan/Skyline/GTR has little racing history. you can look into the history of EACH race track in the world and find that they all have been numerously changed/modify in the past 10 years or so. it was after the skyline(s) was owning the competitions that the rules/regulations begin changing, and eventually they were banned. that is y you dont see Skylines in the track. the only place left is drifting and illegal street lol

The only place where u can find the Skyline race cars is JGTC (or mainly Japan race tracks), also there u will notice that they dont really BAN cars at all (regulations that BARELY bans any car). Why? b/cuz they r not as scared as the rest of the world is, they pretty much WELCOME challenges. in lots of vids on youtube u can even see (in japan, unofficial races, but with EXPERIENCED drivers) the gtr going against the z06, 911, etc and come out on top on most of them. and i think there was one of them with the gtr against the lambo lp650 (i think).

Best thing to do to get the Skyline/GTR on the track (offically) is to write millions of letters to the BIG racing leagues and hopefully they change their regulations...or easier way is protesting. neither way it will be a long time before the skyline/gtr can come out of hte JGTC and race in with the rest of the world. I would personally like to see the skyline in the Le Mans (hope its spell that way) and the rest of the race tracks the world offers

Overall, my main statement is that the Skyline was ban only AFTER it started blowing the competition away, just like Mazda's 767 but we should keep that quiet too.


Oh, one of you guys who thinks they know racing.
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Posted 10/5/08

xiongboy wrote:

well this is to all those who wud say that Nissan/Skyline/GTR has little racing history. you can look into the history of EACH race track in the world and find that they all have been numerously changed/modify in the past 10 years or so. it was after the skyline(s) was owning the competitions that the rules/regulations begin changing, and eventually they were banned. that is y you dont see Skylines in the track. the only place left is drifting and illegal street lol

The only place where u can find the Skyline race cars is JGTC (or mainly Japan race tracks), also there u will notice that they dont really BAN cars at all (regulations that BARELY bans any car). Why? b/cuz they r not as scared as the rest of the world is, they pretty much WELCOME challenges. in lots of vids on youtube u can even see (in japan, unofficial races, but with EXPERIENCED drivers) the gtr going against the z06, 911, etc and come out on top on most of them. and i think there was one of them with the gtr against the lambo lp650 (i think).

Best thing to do to get the Skyline/GTR on the track (offically) is to write millions of letters to the BIG racing leagues and hopefully they change their regulations...or easier way is protesting. neither way it will be a long time before the skyline/gtr can come out of hte JGTC and race in with the rest of the world. I would personally like to see the skyline in the Le Mans (hope its spell that way) and the rest of the race tracks the world offers

Overall, my main statement is that the Skyline was ban only AFTER it started blowing the competition away, just like Mazda's 767 but we should keep that quiet too.


LOL post! The Super GT series GTR (like the other cars in the series) is hardly like their street counterparts - they're "shadow racers" only having to look like the street car they represent. (Front) Tube-framed, NO ATTESSA AWD or other electronic driver's aids (banned by the series rules BTW), 4.5 liter NA V8 sending the power to the REAR wheels... you get the picture. Make no mistake, the Super GT cars are considered some of the fastest GT(1) racers as a series - but, if the GTR is so good, how come none have won at a track like the 24 Hours of Le Mans? Hmm, Corvette C5/6R? Check. (Dodge) Viper GTS-R? Check. Aston Martin DBR9? Check. Porsche 911? Yep. Oh, the Mazda that won Le Mans was the 787B...

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