Post Reply Destruction of the Geass Organization: Justified?
Creator
3801 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19
Offline
Posted 7/14/08
Taken from Narutofan (by the way I actually am not a Naruto fan):

People arguing against Lelouch with "he's killing innocent citizens and children!!!" need to rethink their shit.

I mean, seriously, you are having the same reaction as the Black Knights, who know nothing about Geass. Their reaction is somewhat understandable too, seeing the Order of The Black Knights are "the allies of justice".

The difference between those Knights and you is that you have the knowledge that those "innocent people" are part of a fucking child-kidnapping, experimenting, brainwashing assassination cult, led by VV.

Anyone who pities these "poor kids" seriously need to think things over.
The kids are mentally unstable demons who have power and know how to kill with it, Rollo being the prime example. Cornelia's approach on them is the best one.

The people are scientists and/or cult worshipers, meaning they are their of their own free will. The ones who are there by force are part of the military, meaning they were willing to put their lives on the line for Brittania.

Lelouch knows this (and everyone watching should know this too) and knows the power of Geass is too dangerous for anyone else to have it. "Pitying" and keeping the children alive under protection would most probably only lead to more Rollo's, Mao's and more unnecessary deaths. Wiping out the "breeding ground" is the best solution.

There are also some revenge feelings for Shirley in it, but Lelouch handled them pretty well given the circumstance, by taking out the entire source, instead of just attempting to kill Rollo (hardly accomplishable) on the spot.

Lelouch already knew he would have to do some evil shit to take down Brittania, he is doing it for what he is trying to accomplish, under the banners of "Take the path with the least bloodshed" and "The end does justify the means".

So far what he's doing is justified, unless of course Sunrise pulls a Lord Genome/Anti-Spiral.


Taken from Narutofan (again, i'm not a narutofan):

Alright I totally ABSOLUTELY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM WITH ZERO ATTACKING THE GEASS FACILITY.

Kids with geass are trained to be soldiers. These kids are sent to do specific missions with their geasses.

How is that any different from a kid who is strapped with explosives and sporting an AK-47.

Both are gonna take advantage of u and kill u.

Now imagine u are a soldier on the battlefield. And all of a sudden a 9 year old boy, strapped with explosives, is running toward you and ur comrades.

U might hesitate to shoot and think to yourself, "it is just a kid." And then you notice the explosives and realize he is on a suicide mission. U better fucking raise your gun and pull the trigger...cause otherwise ur fucked...as in dead.

Same thing with the kids...
I'm sorry...did some people just happen to forget the scene in this episode how one kid with a geass took control of a soldier (Mori, I think his name was) and made him shoot his own comrade.

U have to understand, yes, they were kids. But they were not ordinary kids. They possessed a geass and had been trained to be soldiers.

I know, personally, that if I was a soldier that I would have hesitated to shoot...until I realize that if I don't, I will be killed. Also despite his or her age, he or she is a soldier just like me...we just happen to be on opposing sides.

If some of you guys haven't figured it out yet...Zero is a Machiavellian leader...

perhaps u have heard/read the term..."Machiavellian."

It comes from the fact that there was an Italian philosopher, Niccolo Machiavelli, who wrote a short book in the 1400s (Italian Reniassance), The Prince, in which he outlined how a leader should be...

In short, Machiavelli wrote that a leader should put his nation above his own soul. If need be, sacrifice your conscience and sell your soul but do what is necessary to achieve what is best for your nation.

Hence the saying..."the ends justifies the means."

^^^ Needless to say, Lelouch has whole-heartedly embraced Machiavelli's principles.

But granted, if we judge Lelouch actions by his intentions, even I am disturbed. He basically ordered this massacre (regardless of whether it was justified or not) simply because his friend and possible love, Shirley, was killed using geass.

Thus, it was this incident that made Lelouch realize, selfishly, that he and only he should possess Geass. And so began his seige and massacre of the Geass cult.

I am not sure why everyone is so shocked all of a sudden this week's episode. The children were soldiers. With geass. They were dangerous and a threat to Lelouch. Lelouch has essentially ALWAYS neutralized all threats. And this episode was no different.

Again " " (" ")


Those children cant be controlled..Just look like Rolo..This guy is damn unstable...I pretty sure that Lulu is regretting to let this bastard live for so long.


If you want to look at the forum topic there go to http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=397602

Yeah, I think blowing up the Geass Organization was great. I also like the fact that someone else other than me recognizes Lelouch as a Machiavellian-esque ruler.
Member
3459 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / perris ca.
Offline
Posted 7/14/08
i don't think it was completly destroyed cuz v.v is still alive and charels
Creator
3801 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19
Offline
Posted 7/15/08

BAMBOOKINGZAMBIMARU wrote:

i don't think it was completly destroyed cuz v.v is still alive and charels


Yeah but what can they do by themselves while keeping Geass a secret?
Member
446 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
37 / Lost in a Random...
Offline
Posted 7/15/08
I'm not shocked - I kinda expected it.

Eitherway, nope, not justified - whichever you look at it, murdering those chibis were kinda sad. But Lulu was not moving as a Machiavellian in this point of his invasion - instead he's moving out of pure emotion from Shirley's loss (and maybe fear that the same would happen to his other's friends or even Nunally). Actually, I'm seeing Lulu and Suzaku exchanging places... Su being more calculating and evil, while Lu being more emotional and good.

Before the said incident, Lulu was even becoming more calm, collected and even humane - (believeing in the power and hearts and all those cheesy @#$% and sacrificing his army to attempt and save Kallen.) But he went berserk (intellectual berserk, if thats actually possible) last ep, I dont blame him - losing Shirley after all he's done gotta be brutal on his frame of mind.

Actually if you stop and think about it, Lulu's mad mass murdering rampage is far less machiavellian than Suzaku's heartless premeditated drug-induced interrogation tactics.

Oro... wait why am I even trying to psychoanalyze fictional characters? -_- I'll stop now.
Creator
3801 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19
Offline
Posted 7/15/08

deviant_insomnia wrote:

I'm not shocked - I kinda expected it.

Eitherway, nope, not justified - whichever you look at it, murdering those chibis were kinda sad. But Lulu was not moving as a Machiavellian in this point of his invasion - instead he's moving out of pure emotion from Shirley's loss (and maybe fear that the same would happen to his other's friends or even Nunally). Actually, I'm seeing Lulu and Suzaku exchanging places... Su being more calculating and evil, while Lu being more emotional and good.

Before the said incident, Lulu was even becoming more calm, collected and even humane - (believeing in the power and hearts and all those cheesy @#$% and sacrificing his army to attempt and save Kallen.) But he went berserk (intellectual berserk, if thats actually possible) last ep, I dont blame him - losing Shirley after all he's done gotta be brutal on his frame of mind.

Actually if you stop and think about it, Lulu's mad mass murdering rampage is far less machiavellian than Suzaku's heartless premeditated drug-induced interrogation tactics.

Oro... wait why am I even trying to psychoanalyze fictional characters? -_- I'll stop now.


It's okay to analyze because it's fun. Anyways, I don't see how murdering the little kiddies was bad though. One of the kids Geassed an Black Knight into shooting down another Knight with that evil little smirk on its face. I think Rolo murdering the future Rolo's was a good thing (it also reminds me of how Rolo_Lamperouge is in this club as well). Also, if I recall correctly, Lelouch continued the battle against Xingke because he believed he could win (Lelouch assumes that all of his enemies are like Suzaku unless he knows something else). Although the basis of the destruction of Geass was based on the loss of a loved one, isn't the result for the greater good of the future of the United States because there's the possibility of the Emp-chan and Double V making more Geass users to destroy Lelouch and therefore destroying the United States?
Mascot
2087 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / Surfing the web @.@
Offline
Posted 7/15/08

loltan wrote:


deviant_insomnia wrote:

I'm not shocked - I kinda expected it.

Eitherway, nope, not justified - whichever you look at it, murdering those chibis were kinda sad. But Lulu was not moving as a Machiavellian in this point of his invasion - instead he's moving out of pure emotion from Shirley's loss (and maybe fear that the same would happen to his other's friends or even Nunally). Actually, I'm seeing Lulu and Suzaku exchanging places... Su being more calculating and evil, while Lu being more emotional and good.

Before the said incident, Lulu was even becoming more calm, collected and even humane - (believeing in the power and hearts and all those cheesy @#$% and sacrificing his army to attempt and save Kallen.) But he went berserk (intellectual berserk, if thats actually possible) last ep, I dont blame him - losing Shirley after all he's done gotta be brutal on his frame of mind.

Actually if you stop and think about it, Lulu's mad mass murdering rampage is far less machiavellian than Suzaku's heartless premeditated drug-induced interrogation tactics.

Oro... wait why am I even trying to psychoanalyze fictional characters? -_- I'll stop now.


It's okay to analyze because it's fun. Anyways, I don't see how murdering the little kiddies was bad though. One of the kids Geassed an Black Knight into shooting down another Knight with that evil little smirk on its face. I think Rolo murdering the future Rolo's was a good thing (it also reminds me of how Rolo_Lamperouge is in this club as well). Also, if I recall correctly, Lelouch continued the battle against Xingke because he believed he could win (Lelouch assumes that all of his enemies are like Suzaku unless he knows something else). Although the basis of the destruction of Geass was based on the loss of a loved one, isn't the result for the greater good of the future of the United States because there's the possibility of the Emp-chan and Double V making more Geass users to destroy Lelouch and therefore destroying the United States?


How could you say that!? Those little kids had every right to live.I don't care if they beat up so guy in the Black knights.He shouldn't be messing with those kids.I was really upset about Rolo killing them though. When they said Rolo nii-chan my heart broke into pieces.After he killed them i felt so sad I wanted to kill Rolo. I am glad that lelouch didn't press the button though =D. If something happens to Rolo and the Vincent(Mostly the vincent...) i'm going to be really angry D:<
Creator
3801 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19
Offline
Posted 7/15/08

Rolo_Lamperouge wrote:

How could you say that!? Those little kids had every right to live.I don't care if they beat up so guy in the Black knights.He shouldn't be messing with those kids.I was really upset about Rolo killing them though. When they said Rolo nii-chan my heart broke into pieces.After he killed them i felt so sad I wanted to kill Rolo. I am glad that lelouch didn't press the button though =D. If something happens to Rolo and the Vincent(Mostly the vincent...) i'm going to be really angry D:<


The kids would have turned into future Rolo's who kill indiscriminately. They won't hesitate to take other peoples lives so it's all for the better if they die because more lives will be saved per potential-Rolo-to-be killed.

As for the Vincent, the Black Knights can just steal another one later if it really bothers you. Remember: the Vincent is a mass-production type Knightmare.
Member
446 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
37 / Lost in a Random...
Offline
Posted 7/15/08
While I can relate to Lulu's emotional conflict right now, I can not in good conscience say it is right.

It all depends on your mores, after all. If you believe Machiavellian principles, where the end justifies the means - well, i can see why murdering chibis can be made acceptable. After all, had they grown up, how many Shirleys would've died? Also, in many past wars, especially in the dark ages - the killing of women and children were known to be carried out without mercy so as to eliminate a 'corrupted' bloodline. Who knows how many children were killed by the Inquisition in their hunt for 'witches' in the past - and they were all aiming for the betterment of humanity as they see it.

But still looking back in as many stories (and animes even) in the past, e.g. Rurouni Kenshin, Black Cat, Trinity Blood, Angel Heart, Cyborg 009 to state only five of them.. it's entirely possible that assassins would fall from their ways and reform themselves, no matter how ingrained those practices are - *if* given the chance. The fact that the kids were not given that chance is downright sad.

Also, the children were not evil, they were just acting out of self preservation. Even Rolo was just a lonely boy whose hunger for love and a brother figure made him cling to Lelouch. His only known reaction to this love is to kill discriminately any who threatens his 'brothers' existence. He just tragically misread Shirley's intentions. (But he still has to die, they should give Shirley that much... I still hate him no matter how much I can understand his position.)
Creator
3801 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19
Offline
Posted 7/16/08 , edited 7/16/08

deviant_insomnia wrote:

While I can relate to Lulu's emotional conflict right now, I can not in good conscience say it is right.

It all depends on your mores, after all. If you believe Machiavellian principles, where the end justifies the means - well, i can see why murdering chibis can be made acceptable. After all, had they grown up, how many Shirleys would've died? Also, in many past wars, especially in the dark ages - the killing of women and children were known to be carried out without mercy so as to eliminate a 'corrupted' bloodline. Who knows how many children were killed by the Inquisition in their hunt for 'witches' in the past - and they were all aiming for the betterment of humanity as they see it.

But still looking back in as many stories (and animes even) in the past, e.g. Rurouni Kenshin, Black Cat, Trinity Blood, Angel Heart, Cyborg 009 to state only five of them.. it's entirely possible that assassins would fall from their ways and reform themselves, no matter how ingrained those practices are - *if* given the chance. The fact that the kids were not given that chance is downright sad.

Also, the children were not evil, they were just acting out of self preservation. Even Rolo was just a lonely boy whose hunger for love and a brother figure made him cling to Lelouch. His only known reaction to this love is to kill discriminately any who threatens his 'brothers' existence. He just tragically misread Shirley's intentions. (But he still has to die, they should give Shirley that much... I still hate him no matter how much I can understand his position.)


First off, I lol'ed when you typed "how many Shirley's would have died".

Second, about giving the children a chance, although I only know Black Cat out of all of the ones you listed, I can only say that reform is too slow and inefficient, and taking that example, since the Geass Organization is government sponsored like an Eraser is, there won't be one Saya Minatsuki for every future-Rolo in the world.

Lastly, self-preservation is what thought at first, but the scene gave me too many lols when I saw the kid using Geass, so I rewatched it. So I'll say it again, EVIL SMIRK
Moderator
536 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / On your mom's bed
Offline
Posted 7/26/08 , edited 8/10/08
Finally someone who has a brain, i loved the exampled you used with the kid on a suicide mission, ITS EITHER KILL OR GET KILLED that kid realizes that so why cant you? Lelouch used his god damn head before he attacked the Geass Lab he knew the consequence's, if he did this purely for revenge he would have blown up rolo immediately im not saying he didn't do it for revenge at all but he just wanted to stop geass from making people suffer he had a reason behind his actions! Lelouch is smart he is not a frickin light yamagi, HE THINKS BEFORE HE DOES SHIT ( not that light doesn't think ahead but most of his actions were unnecessary,killing his family, girlfriend etc., no offense to any light fans) being sympathetic gets you killed, that is the one and only thing that rolo understands, plus if lelouch didn't care about the innocent at all he wouldn't of saved them, even though he doesn't act like it lelouch cares about the people and tries to help them, great fourm
You must be logged in to post.