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Contradicting Ideals
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11
[


Ok cool. Not a Liberal, ok. Ok cool.

Ok now your whole 2nd paragraph Im not even sure why you typed, since this debate isnt focusing on biases or anything, we are simply trying to determine whether War is a solution or not, that is it. But yes, its always good to see differing opinion, and always checking sources, but once again, this has nothing to do with the original topic of the debate.

Your right, if I only listen to right rhetoric, I will only be seeing one side of the issue. But once again, this isnt about any political side, this is about a debate between whether War is a solution or not.

Darker than Black.....didnt see the anime....but if Im not mistaken...I believe your profile picture is a character in it....though I may be wrong.

But anyways, have fun

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Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11
As far as the military is concerned, the purpose of a military is to protect life, not take life. What you fail to consider is that there exist in this world unreasonable people. Ambition, rage, injustices (both real and perceived) and insecurities can lead to conflict. Human beings are predatory pack animals (like wolves). It is in our nature to fight sometimes. The purpose of a good military is to reduce suffering by fighting and eliminating threats. To someone young or naive, this seems like a contradiction, but when one stops to consider the dynamics of having hundreds of countries, religions, and parties involved in competition due to resources, land, and ideology, it no longer is a contradiction to kill to save life. If a powerful zealot wanted to (for example) kill all the Jews (it happened before a few times thanks to Hitler and Queen Isabella) Then the way to save the most lives is to fight the zealot's supporters.

Pursuing the greatest net good sometimes requires a choice between the lesser of two evils. It is not necessarily a contradiction.

Imagine a famine where there is not enough food to feed the family. If one member dies, then the rest have enough food to survive. If food is distributed evenly, they all die slow deaths of malnutrition. Read the story, "the Lottery." There are numerous other examples.

Real life rarely fair or kind. There are thousands of examples of contradictions in life every day. People can only make the best choices that they can; no path is perfect. It takes a great strength of will to understand this fully.
Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11
I brought up the second paragraph because wars bring solutions for many things, and are fought with many objectives. Not all are about protecting the home land. However that is conveniently the primary focus to drive public opinion in favor of wars, that is all.

Though I never really gave a personal opinion on war itself, merely a token of what I have learned about it. I brought up the issue of sides because you have brought them up several times in your previous responses, and I wanted to clarify that I was not taking a stance on any side, nor do I debate within the confines to ideology or individual political positions.
Posted 2/20/11

dark_paradox_21 wrote:

As far as the military is concerned, the purpose of a military is to protect life, not take life.


This is not quite true. The military serves any purpose it is given. If it is given the purpose to take lives, then it will do that. If it is given the purpose to protect lives, so be it. What dictates the military's purpose in a proposed Democracy are the politicians who are supposed to represent the people. However, you should know what happens when politicians only serve those who have enough cash to lobby them into office.

Revolution.
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 2/20/11


Just because something is convenient, doesnt mean its false. All wars are brought up with the idea of protecting ones homeland....do you know why its more than just flashy words? Its because thats what is truly is. Protecting the homeland. Sure some people join the military for some reasons....but the underlining truth is that the military and wars exist to secure our homeland.

You are debating with confines to ideology though.....you keep saying that War is NEVER the answer.....(You didnt directly say these words, but its obvious you are implying it).....due to this....which I consider you turning a blind eye towards logic.....if you are saying something which logic does NOT support, then what you are saying is an ideology.

Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11

superluccix wrote:



Just because something is convenient, doesnt mean its false. All wars are brought up with the idea of protecting ones homeland....do you know why its more than just flashy words? Its because thats what is truly is. Protecting the homeland. Sure some people join the military for some reasons....but the underlining truth is that the military and wars exist to secure our homeland.

You are debating with confines to ideology though.....you keep saying that War is NEVER the answer.....(You didnt directly say these words, but its obvious you are implying it).....due to this....which I consider you turning a blind eye towards logic.....if you are saying something which logic does NOT support, then what you are saying is an ideology.



Quote me where I said war is never the answer. No, I am not implying it. You are again putting words into my mouth. I gave no two ways about how justifiable a convenience was either.

I am very logical and patient, but you are trying my patience through a very judgmental position.
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Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11


You said

Fighting is normal. Fighting because a guy wants more money and so he gives people a nationalistic belief as to why they should fight for him isn't. It's a sickness, yet it is socially accepted. If you are pro war, you are some how objective, yet if you are against a war, you are not.

It's a double standard that needs to end. I have very pragmatic reasons as to why current wars are a very bad idea, and not just because it's 'war'. You should take off those rose colored glasses eventually. People going overseas to save lives are not getting what they have hoped for.

For the record. I am not a pacifist. I just believe that people need to see what war really is. Shoot a man for your politicians and you're a hero. Shoot a man out of passion, and you're a murderer. It's not right. Killing can only be murder.

You were complaining that if you are Pro War, you are being objective, however if you are not Pro War, you are not. Due to you saying this, you obviously disagree with this statement.

Therefore when you disagree with that statement, you are saying War is not the answer EVER. And you are saying that people who say War is not the answer EVER are indeed objective, which is obviously not the case.

You indeed did not give two ways about how justifiable a convenience was....however you continue to say that "Protecting our homeland" is just a convenient way of saying "Go out and do what I say". Due to you thinking its convenient, you obviously dont agree with the statement of 'Protecting out Homeland"

Now, you can go ahead and reply back saying "I believe War is the answer sometimes" and then we will be done this debate. if you dont reply with this, then I have to assume you disagree with War all the time, and will continue this debate
Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11

superluccix wrote:



Now, you can go ahead and reply back saying "I believe War is the answer sometimes" and then we will be done this debate.


Hah, you shot the silver bullet into my chest. I didn't want to say it myself because frankly I don't really like pointing out where I am coming from very much. Call me a devil's advocate if you like. I am glad you came to that conclusion.

I do indeed see some conflict as very justifiable. The War of independence is a prime example.

Nice debating with ya, time for me to get some shut eye.
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11


:)

*Bows* Have a good day

Posted 2/20/11 , edited 2/20/11

superluccix wrote:



:)

*Bows* Have a good day



May the strawberry milk be with you, always. You know, that feeling you get when you really have to go to the bathroom.

Oh btw, I remember why I didn't really want to get in depth. If you want to see a more comprehensive standpoint on why I never really got in depth in our debate. Fly back to the top of page 2 in this thread and read down. I elaborate a tad bit on some of the backdoor aspects of society.

After reading some of what I said earlier in the thread, I found that I do actually mention that some wars are justifiable.
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