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why does anything exist?
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27 / M / United States
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Posted 7/21/08 , edited 7/21/08
sorry to fail your hope....

1. I don't believe in a truly freewill
2. pure luck is valid, as long as it is possible it may happens^^ (I am not saying God is not). The problem with you is that you believe human/ life must exist. In other words, a design that human must have been in it. You can't force people to believe this one. We don't have (not an absolute statement) to be here.
3. If God is not the missing puzzle, we just have to find it. That's why it is called science. I don't want to include God as the definition is too wide. If God is related to science, then when apple fall on Newton, he would just say " because God wanted me to eat apple (or kill me with apple)"
4. What's wrong with never beginning-ending universe? it may seems illogical(IT IS...), but it is as logical as universe has ending and beginning. Do you see your problem? because you want universe to have beginning and ending (because it relieved you more than the other argument, because everything you see have beginning and ending, but you never see everything^^). I objectively don't see everything have a beginning (and ending) is more explainable.
5. don't mind about the anti-noun. It's just a joke we made, a good joke to spend my time with. (you can read our previous posts if you want to)
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Posted 7/21/08
Simply: "I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am." That is the only statement you can be sure about. No more.
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Posted 7/21/08

zendude wrote:


tweety_cool wrote:


We don't have (not an absolute statement) to be here.



I would have to agree with this one, in a educational matter. I think that is why we call our beliefs faith.

Anti-nouns. LAWL-Sauce.


That's it.... it's faith... end of story....
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Posted 7/21/08
toys for God.
Posted 7/21/08

g31025 wrote:

toys for God.


so true, that or everything are toys for us to play with cause we in turn are God's toys.
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24 / F / Coffee shops, Tea...
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Posted 7/22/08
would u know something exists if nothing existed?
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27 / F / it's all in your...
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Posted 7/22/08
Things exist because the mind perceives them to be so.
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Posted 7/22/08


lmao im not sure, i think its just going to make another paradox, i should stay away from linguistics lolz
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Posted 7/22/08 , edited 7/22/08


haha ^^ void is a anti-noun tho, it is not really referring to anything, just absence of existence... it could work...
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Posted 7/22/08

simo2332 wrote:



haha ^^ void is a anti-noun tho, it is not really referring to anything, just absence of existence... it could work...


ok boys..... we learn something... we are not linguistic major

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Posted 7/22/08

digs wrote:

Things exist because God wills things to exist.


and you exist cause of that one-night stand i had with your mom
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Posted 7/22/08

crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

but
existence could not have been created for a reason because something would of had to of existed to create it and give it a reason. existence has nothing dependent on it and so is unnecessary. existence has no objective purpose or value.

and because god exists, as you say, he is also mingled in with the above.


But God is uncreated unlike us, otherwise like you mentioned there would be the problem of infinate regress. Why we can say so is because a true theist believes God cannot be fully compared to His creations, including humans, the earth, and the universe.


The universe has the same probability of self-causation as any other existential thing in the universe.


I believe you are talking about cyclic causation and even so how do you think it would start? God, the first causer and uncaused. Self causation is not possible.


That's my point. And yet, how did God exist without a source to bring him into being?


Good question, I was hoping you could answer that. And if God didn't exist there would be no purpose, much like Existentialist thought process. We would be born into the world with no purpose and we would need to create a purpose of our own. Problem is decreeing no purpose in the beginning means that life is random, the complete opposite. As fun as that sounds that wouldn't explain how the universe runs, if any huge margin of error were to exist, say for example there were no trees, we would be screwed.
As Albert Einstein says, "God does not play dice with the universe". Purpose in the universe means there has to be someone who creates the purpose for us, God. Otherwise if we and the universe were unguided we'd be in a lot of trouble. So the missing puzzle piece has to be God. How He came into being is a mystery man will never solve, the only logical thing we can say is that He was not created but has always been.


According to Existentialist philosophy, purpose is not assigned to any man; man does not give himself a purpose, but rather he ascribes meaning to his life. Meaning and purpose are entirely different concepts.

The 'if things were slightly different, then we wouldn't exist' argument does not work because God is absolutely unnecessary to complete it. If there are multiple universes, then there could be millions where humans never existed because of those slight changes or evolved differently.

Albert Einstein was a deist.
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Posted 7/22/08

leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

but
existence could not have been created for a reason because something would of had to of existed to create it and give it a reason. existence has nothing dependent on it and so is unnecessary. existence has no objective purpose or value.

and because god exists, as you say, he is also mingled in with the above.


But God is uncreated unlike us, otherwise like you mentioned there would be the problem of infinate regress. Why we can say so is because a true theist believes God cannot be fully compared to His creations, including humans, the earth, and the universe.


The universe has the same probability of self-causation as any other existential thing in the universe.


I believe you are talking about cyclic causation and even so how do you think it would start? God, the first causer and uncaused. Self causation is not possible.


That's my point. And yet, how did God exist without a source to bring him into being?


Good question, I was hoping you could answer that. And if God didn't exist there would be no purpose, much like Existentialist thought process. We would be born into the world with no purpose and we would need to create a purpose of our own. Problem is decreeing no purpose in the beginning means that life is random, the complete opposite. As fun as that sounds that wouldn't explain how the universe runs, if any huge margin of error were to exist, say for example there were no trees, we would be screwed.
As Albert Einstein says, "God does not play dice with the universe". Purpose in the universe means there has to be someone who creates the purpose for us, God. Otherwise if we and the universe were unguided we'd be in a lot of trouble. So the missing puzzle piece has to be God. How He came into being is a mystery man will never solve, the only logical thing we can say is that He was not created but has always been.


According to Existentialist philosophy, purpose is not assigned to any man; man does not give himself a purpose, but rather he ascribes meaning to his life. Meaning and purpose are entirely different concepts.

The 'if things were slightly different, then we wouldn't exist' argument does not work because God is absolutely unnecessary to complete it. If there are multiple universes, then there could be millions where humans never existed because of those slight changes or evolved differently.

Albert Einstein was a deist.


Well the Existententials say it we make our own essence, like meaning but also implies purpose. Meaning and purpose can be related but just how can man create a meaning for himself without purpose? I suppose he could at first glance but will he be happy? Existentialism is a very depressing philosophy, my friend. Truely I think most people would be happier living by any other philosophy out there. Plus humans in their nature are curious creatures so that already sets a purpose for us, to feed our curiousity. By the way, one of the very first exi's just happened to be a Christian ironically and had defined most of what exi was all about.

That whole multi universe thing, did you watch a lot of Stargate or something? I've heard of that and partly believe in it but that theory imply's random events that could and might happen based on our universe. I've learned enough that even randomness is not even random, probability can be determined with the right kind of math. Where I'm going with this is that if there wasn't a God then would the world and human kind be determined by completely uncalculable randomness or defined purposeful order? Give sufficient reason for your choice and not just some quick 'because I think so' post with little backup info. And give me good reasons why you don't think God exist, I've never been given a good answer up to this point being they were all weak.
Yes, I know Einstein's Jewish and if you read carefully you would figure out why I used his quote.
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Posted 7/22/08

crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

but
existence could not have been created for a reason because something would of had to of existed to create it and give it a reason. existence has nothing dependent on it and so is unnecessary. existence has no objective purpose or value.

and because god exists, as you say, he is also mingled in with the above.


But God is uncreated unlike us, otherwise like you mentioned there would be the problem of infinate regress. Why we can say so is because a true theist believes God cannot be fully compared to His creations, including humans, the earth, and the universe.


The universe has the same probability of self-causation as any other existential thing in the universe.


I believe you are talking about cyclic causation and even so how do you think it would start? God, the first causer and uncaused. Self causation is not possible.


That's my point. And yet, how did God exist without a source to bring him into being?


Good question, I was hoping you could answer that. And if God didn't exist there would be no purpose, much like Existentialist thought process. We would be born into the world with no purpose and we would need to create a purpose of our own. Problem is decreeing no purpose in the beginning means that life is random, the complete opposite. As fun as that sounds that wouldn't explain how the universe runs, if any huge margin of error were to exist, say for example there were no trees, we would be screwed.
As Albert Einstein says, "God does not play dice with the universe". Purpose in the universe means there has to be someone who creates the purpose for us, God. Otherwise if we and the universe were unguided we'd be in a lot of trouble. So the missing puzzle piece has to be God. How He came into being is a mystery man will never solve, the only logical thing we can say is that He was not created but has always been.


According to Existentialist philosophy, purpose is not assigned to any man; man does not give himself a purpose, but rather he ascribes meaning to his life. Meaning and purpose are entirely different concepts.

The 'if things were slightly different, then we wouldn't exist' argument does not work because God is absolutely unnecessary to complete it. If there are multiple universes, then there could be millions where humans never existed because of those slight changes or evolved differently.

Albert Einstein was a deist.


Well the Existententials say it we make our own essence, like meaning but also implies purpose. Meaning and purpose can be related but just how can man create a meaning for himself without purpose? I suppose he could at first glance but will he be happy? Existentialism is a very depressing philosophy, my friend. Truely I think most people would be happier living by any other philosophy out there. Plus humans in their nature are curious creatures so that already sets a purpose for us, to feed our curiousity. By the way, one of the very first exi's just happened to be a Christian ironically and had defined most of what exi was all about.

That whole multi universe thing, did you watch a lot of Stargate or something? I've heard of that and partly believe in it but that theory imply's random events that could and might happen based on our universe. I've learned enough that even randomness is not even random, probability can be determined with the right kind of math. Where I'm going with this is that if there wasn't a God then would the world and human kind be determined by completely uncalculable randomness or defined purposeful order? Give sufficient reason for your choice and not just some quick 'because I think so' post with little backup info. And give me good reasons why you don't think God exist, I've never been given a good answer up to this point being they were all weak.
Yes, I know Einstein's Jewish and if you read carefully you would figure out why I used his quote.


well.... means.... you don't think it's wrong... it's just depressing.... and you can't take it. so if anyone can handle this philosophy.... do you have any problem? ^^ btw, I agree with you, no one can prove anything about God... it's to biased... That's why I am not trying to prove it doesn't exist...

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Posted 7/22/08 , edited 7/22/08

crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


simo2332 wrote:

but
existence could not have been created for a reason because something would of had to of existed to create it and give it a reason. existence has nothing dependent on it and so is unnecessary. existence has no objective purpose or value.

and because god exists, as you say, he is also mingled in with the above.


But God is uncreated unlike us, otherwise like you mentioned there would be the problem of infinate regress. Why we can say so is because a true theist believes God cannot be fully compared to His creations, including humans, the earth, and the universe.


The universe has the same probability of self-causation as any other existential thing in the universe.


I believe you are talking about cyclic causation and even so how do you think it would start? God, the first causer and uncaused. Self causation is not possible.


That's my point. And yet, how did God exist without a source to bring him into being?


Good question, I was hoping you could answer that. And if God didn't exist there would be no purpose, much like Existentialist thought process. We would be born into the world with no purpose and we would need to create a purpose of our own. Problem is decreeing no purpose in the beginning means that life is random, the complete opposite. As fun as that sounds that wouldn't explain how the universe runs, if any huge margin of error were to exist, say for example there were no trees, we would be screwed.
As Albert Einstein says, "God does not play dice with the universe". Purpose in the universe means there has to be someone who creates the purpose for us, God. Otherwise if we and the universe were unguided we'd be in a lot of trouble. So the missing puzzle piece has to be God. How He came into being is a mystery man will never solve, the only logical thing we can say is that He was not created but has always been.


According to Existentialist philosophy, purpose is not assigned to any man; man does not give himself a purpose, but rather he ascribes meaning to his life. Meaning and purpose are entirely different concepts.

The 'if things were slightly different, then we wouldn't exist' argument does not work because God is absolutely unnecessary to complete it. If there are multiple universes, then there could be millions where humans never existed because of those slight changes or evolved differently.

Albert Einstein was a deist.


Well the Existententials say it we make our own essence, like meaning but also implies purpose. Meaning and purpose can be related but just how can man create a meaning for himself without purpose? I suppose he could at first glance but will he be happy? Existentialism is a very depressing philosophy, my friend. Truely I think most people would be happier living by any other philosophy out there. Plus humans in their nature are curious creatures so that already sets a purpose for us, to feed our curiousity. By the way, one of the very first exi's just happened to be a Christian ironically and had defined most of what exi was all about.

That whole multi universe thing, did you watch a lot of Stargate or something? I've heard of that and partly believe in it but that theory imply's random events that could and might happen based on our universe. I've learned enough that even randomness is not even random, probability can be determined with the right kind of math. Where I'm going with this is that if there wasn't a God then would the world and human kind be determined by completely uncalculable randomness or defined purposeful order? Give sufficient reason for your choice and not just some quick 'because I think so' post with little backup info. And give me good reasons why you don't think God exist, I've never been given a good answer up to this point being they were all weak.
Yes, I know Einstein's Jewish and if you read carefully you would figure out why I used his quote.


Meaning and purpose are related in some respect. Purpose is a objective relationship, meaning is a subjective relationship. This is why man can create meaning independent of purpose (or a lack of). Existentialists believe that existence precedes essence, so that the existence of things precedes their meaning. Then again you have Soren Kierkegaard, so existentialism does not necessarily exclude the existence of God.

I'm an existentialist. I'm happy, happier than when I only went to church.

Yes, I watched Stargate. Yes, I also studied inflationary theory and all that scientific theory stuff. Theoretically, all events in the universe are the result of a cause-effect relationship. However, such certainty breaks down at the quantum level. Probabilities can be calculated, but that is the greatest extent. Probability is a poor substitute for actual knowledge.

Why would the universe be defined by completely incalculable randomness without God? The laws of physics certainly seem to be working without His hand in them. Are you deriving your argument from the First Cause argument of Aquinas?

Please provide solid evidence that the order of the universe must be derived from the existence of a Christian God. Or logical reasoning.

Again, Einstein was a deist. The Jewish people do not believe in such a God. You're taking his quote out of context.
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