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Post Reply What IS Martial Arts?
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Posted 7/23/08
Nervious or are you doubting in your abilities?
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26 / M / Just a kamen ride...
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Posted 7/23/08

Telomonian wrote:

Nervious or are you doubting in your abilities?


i never really got nervous i just like to know the things i need to like second nature so its really just im not comfortable enough with the material that i feel like im ready to move on
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Posted 7/23/08

carlrules097 wrote:


Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


carlrules097 wrote:
I am a first degree black belt


11 years and your still a shodan?



It wasn't a straight 11 years i took off about two years in the middle, but last couple times they asked if i wanted to test i felt i wasn't ready


Even so, the longest time I have ever seen someone take to attain shodan was 3 years in Karate and everyone was baffled. Then again he was terrible and even got kicked out of his previous TKD class.

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Posted 7/23/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


carlrules097 wrote:


Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


carlrules097 wrote:
I am a first degree black belt


11 years and your still a shodan?



It wasn't a straight 11 years i took off about two years in the middle, but last couple times they asked if i wanted to test i felt i wasn't ready


Even so, the longest time I have ever seen someone take to attain shodan was 3 years in Karate and everyone was baffled. Then again he was terrible and even got kicked out of his previous TKD class.



im goin on a little over 2 and a half but the the minimum to get to the next level in our school is 2 years, also dont care so much about belts, belts mean nothing in a fight, only the skills you bring with you
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Posted 7/23/08

carlrules097 wrote:

im goin on a little over 2 and a half but the the minimum to get to the next level in our school is 2 years, also dont care so much about belts, belts mean nothing in a fight, only the skills you bring with you


Okay is it 2 and a half years or 11 years?

Belts, like any ranks, are meant to show the experience one has in an art and the understanding they possess of the skills in those arts. So I think you are quite incorrect.
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Posted 7/23/08 , edited 7/23/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


carlrules097 wrote:

im goin on a little over 2 and a half but the the minimum to get to the next level in our school is 2 years, also dont care so much about belts, belts mean nothing in a fight, only the skills you bring with you


Okay is it 2 and a half years or 11 years?

Belts, like any ranks, are meant to show the experience one has in an art and the understanding they possess of the skills in those arts. So I think you are quite incorrect.


i have been doing american kenpo for a total of 11 years, but i have had my first degree for a about 2 and half

And as belts may represent experience, someone could be in 100 fights and fight poorly and lose everyone of them, when someone who has been in 20 maybe is a better fighter, now im not saying that experience is unvaluable, thats not it all, something like a fight gives you something u will never experience in training, but the skills you use in a fight is what i believe makes more of a difference then experience alone.
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Posted 7/24/08

carlrules097 wrote:


Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


carlrules097 wrote:

im goin on a little over 2 and a half but the the minimum to get to the next level in our school is 2 years, also dont care so much about belts, belts mean nothing in a fight, only the skills you bring with you


Okay is it 2 and a half years or 11 years?

Belts, like any ranks, are meant to show the experience one has in an art and the understanding they possess of the skills in those arts. So I think you are quite incorrect.


i have been doing american kenpo for a total of 11 years, but i have had my first degree for a about 2 and half

And as belts may represent experience, someone could be in 100 fights and fight poorly and lose everyone of them, when someone who has been in 20 maybe is a better fighter, now im not saying that experience is unvaluable, thats not it all, something like a fight gives you something u will never experience in training, but the skills you use in a fight is what i believe makes more of a difference then experience alone.


"something like a fight gives you something u will never experience in training"

Don't you fight as training?
That's the main way I was taught.
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Posted 7/24/08

carlrules097 wrote:
i have been doing american kenpo for a total of 11 years, but i have had my first degree for a about 2 and half

And as belts may represent experience, someone could be in 100 fights and fight poorly and lose everyone of them, when someone who has been in 20 maybe is a better fighter, now im not saying that experience is unvaluable, thats not it all, something like a fight gives you something u will never experience in training, but the skills you use in a fight is what i believe makes more of a difference then experience alone.


Still, it shouldn't take someone around 2-4 years [depending on the art] to attain a black belt. A black belt is nothing but the start of learning martial arts. I just find that strange. I have always seen Kenpo give out belts quickly.

What you said about experience is not necessarily correct. I will show you how.

Experience is a catalyst that makes the formula work.

The forumula: Experience = Time + Effort.

So I would say that experience very much is important in a fight. For example I bring up the concept of Mushin.
Mushin, a principle which symbolized the ultimate understanding of martial arts and was deemed "enlightenment" pertaining to martial arts. All warriors sought it.
What is it? Well it is a strange concept both easy and hard to understand.
The basis is easy to explain but understanding is something that cannot be related through words.
Mushin means "Empty Mind" which means that in a fight, you do not think as when you think you get distracted and your thoughts trap you. It is very true as there is absolutely no time to think in a fight. So how does one accomplish this? I will relate it to the belt systems and their distinctive purpose regarding mushin and techniques.

During the Kyu [preliminary/non belted] ranks, you learn the basics and then techniques through repitition [Kata, Poomse, etc.] When you attain Shodan, "Black belt" the first Dan rank, you start the real training. Most people think this is the goal, but it is indeed the first belt, not the last. During Shodan you learn to apply those techniques and pratice it without thinking. Eventually you can move purely and fluidly without thinking. This is the purest and greatest method of fighting as it is completely natural.
You see, during learning forms [Like kata] through repitition you dedicate the learning not to the brain but to muscle memory. Your body remembers it. Much like riding a bike, you don't think you just do.
The end result is Mushin. When you know the techniques and can apply them in the correct applications, you have attained mushin.
After 5 years of Jujutsu training I had attained this understanding. It is something you must practice until you grasp a depth of understanding in. This comes quicker and slower than others. But once you understand it, it is like a great epiphany that dawns on you. It's an experience like none other. Then you know it.
It requires great time and effort into an art.


Ah but time and effort are wasted unless spent upon an effective art as some are not effective in real combat. [TKD, Mainstream GongFu, XMA crap, etc]

There's a whole new equation!

Though as I always say, the effectiveness of an art itself is only 50% of it's effectiveness in a fight. The other 50% is 25% the instructor's mettle and 25% the effort the trainee puts in to learning that art.

So there. You train in a combat art under a very much qualified instructor then all is needed is time and effort.

Now in the art there are two types of training. Forms and Sparring.

Forms are the best way to learn a technique as it is a system that has been used since Martial Arts began with it's routes traced back to a young India.

Sparring shows how to apply such techniques and teaches one the vital knowledge of combating resistance in an opponent. It may not be to the extent of a real fight, but it is most definitely suffecient enough.

Now many people debate on which is better. Some say forms are useless and others say the opposite.
It is infact both that must be practiced to become a truly proficient martial artist and to hold your own in a fight.

Sure some people who have never learned martial arts may be stronger or faster than you, but the one thing martial arts does is destroy the need for strength and speed to be used in a fight. I am a pretty big guy. I may look slim, but I am 240 lbs and 6'1 and have worked hard labor in factories for half my teenage life, I may not be a body builder but I am toned and I am very much stronger than the average sized muscle-less person. I never use the full extent of my strength in a fight. I never need to. Sure my punches have a bit more PSI, but what matters is not the force of my punch but the precision of it. Where I strike, when I strike, and how I strike.

Why you fight has much to do with it as well..
Willpower has a strange effect on people. It can do strange things with the brain. Willpower to survive is more powerful than willpower to hurt or to win a fight. It can even on occaision trigger the release of neurochemicals such as norepinephrine and epinephrine which can change the outcome of a fight by themselves.

I live in Kansas City. It's reputation as a vile and dangerous city are widely known. It has statistically more violent crime that New York and Jersey put together. Gangs, muggings, robberies, all of these are commonplace. I have been mugged several times and have repelled the attackers. I have been in plenty of fights over my years. Armed and Unarmed opponents alike. When I was young I was bullied because of a rare condition I have called Panhypopituitarism which meant my hypothalamus does not adequately produce harmones. The end result: I was tiny. I was frail, short, and weak. This forced me to become tough. I was tortured, quite literally, by sadistic little fucks who thought it was funny since I was an easy target. I learned how to defend myself at the age of 6 and have never stopped learning. I took injections for it from the age of 5 to the age of 18 and now I am fine. I am now 24 years old, bigger and badder than any of those fucks and whenever they see me they always try and hide. I once went to a video store where one worked and he looked up at me and his eyes got huge. He started stuttering apologies. I told him that that was a long time ago and that just as I am a different person now I so expect him to be. He nodded, checked my video out, and as I was walking out the door he asked me if I wanted to hang out sometime. I said sure and he said him and some buddies were going out to Kellys, a well known pub, and he asked if he could buy me a couple drinks and catch up. It ended up being a fun night and I made a friend out of the experience. This is why I fight and this is why I am strong.


So, if you have experience that stems from time and effort spent into the right art taught by the right teacher and have trained in the right methods, then it seems experience does make all the difference. A little will couldn't hurt either.
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Posted 7/24/08
I thought martial arts was the art of combat, everything from a warrior's (learner's) thinking, movement (skill) and take on life. Martial arts for me have always been thought to revolve around war and becoming stronger in skill and mentality.

Obviously reading the past entries helped me understand more. There's only so much you can learn by reading things off wiki. I'm glad i joined this group! get to learn stuff from the pros ^_^
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Posted 7/24/08

kokomousey wrote:

I thought martial arts was the art of combat, everything from a warrior's (learner's) thinking, movement (skill) and take on life. Martial arts for me have always been thought to revolve around war and becoming stronger in skill and mentality.

Obviously reading the past entries helped me understand more. There's only so much you can learn by reading things off wiki. I'm glad i joined this group! get to learn stuff from the pros ^_^


Well you are a very welcome addition, my dear.
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Posted 7/24/08
Thanks! Though probably for a while i'll just be reading and absorbing knowledge like a sponge
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Posted 7/24/08 , edited 7/24/08
That's what this is all about.The exchange of knowledge.
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Posted 7/24/08
Hai! ^_^
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Posted 7/25/08 , edited 7/25/08


First off you have a had a much rougher childhood then me and i respect that you never just laid back and let those things continue, you did something about it, me....its not exactly Kansas city in the country areas of Pennsylvania. So i haven't been in any real fights like muggings or anything of that nature.

And to go along with your student teacher formula I believe that there has to be a trust between both the teacher and the student, and that is how great martial artists are made. I think that if there is that bond of trust for the student to practice his forms and techniques, and then the student trusts the teacher to be teaching them correctly, that is what is when the true learning of martial arts occurs.

And when you said That a first degree is when the real training begins reminds me of what my father would always say to me, he would tell me, we all have down days and i was having one where i was doubting if i was really learning stuff i would need. To cheer me up my father said That all this training is all just working towards a door, and achieving first degree was opening that door. A little after my black belt he told me that door has been opened and your real path to learning martial arts is just beginning.
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Posted 7/25/08


Haha I hate talking about my past but I guess to explain my point of view on certain things I have to bring it up as an example and to show people where I am coming from.

Absolutely, a student will not progress without trusting the teacher and following their charge.

We all have doubts but we must overcome these things and that is part of martial arts in itself; overcoming doubt. Your dad sounds like a good man. His words are true.


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