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Religion vs. Science is a Myth
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Posted 7/29/08


yes let's just watch anime and relax.... "gintama" mode : on....... (We are in crunchyroll dammit!!!!)

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Posted 7/29/08 , edited 7/29/08

Narc_7 wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


melonbarmonster wrote:

Yeah it's hogwash. Your friend has a strawman understanding of religion. Theism and specifically Christianity isn't a reasonless, illogical exercise in blind faith. According to your OP, everything not based on empiricism and experimentation is the same as belief in nonsense including philosophy, music, art, etc..

Atheism is the true exercise in blind, dogmatic faith. Atheism can't account for the existence of non-material things like morality, human rights, love or even logic for that matter.


leviathan343 wrote:

Did anyone actually read the OP? Just checking.




See my point?


Dude, are you i'ght?


I'm pointing out that melon criticizes my OP without actually understanding what it says. Boiled down, it simply says that the current scientific method neither endorses nor denies the existence of the supernatural. The supernatural cannot be tested by science, so it is not mentioned. Doesn't mean that God exists or doesn't exist. Science simply admits it cannot answer the question, so it doesn't pursue it. Apparently he can't conceive of that possibility.

It looks weird because he can't quote things properly. Quotes on top, comments on bottom.


melonbarmonster wrote:

Not at all. I've gotten from you poor anti-theist articles that misreference scientific sources and muddled statements about subjectivity.

Why don't you just state your point?


If you actually understand the OP (and you haven't), you'd realize that science admits it cannot answer any questions about the supernatural. So they neither deny nor affirm that it exists. Any scientist that claims otherwise is wrong. You have the intelligence of a brick wall if you can't understand that.

Nice try with the whole emotional appeal (anti-theist sounds evil, doesn't it?)
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Posted 7/29/08

zendude wrote:
That reminds me that I haven't watch Anime for almost three weeks. Well, I will relax my 20 day forum lurking and start watching. This is crunchyroll after all.


Anything you want to recommend? I have to get back into watching some.

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Posted 7/29/08
People. I personally recommend 'Samurai Deeper Kyo' You'll see a video on my profile along with a cool poem. Check 'em out when you ave time and let me know what you think of the poem
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Posted 7/29/08
And this has become anime topic discussion.


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Posted 7/29/08
True. Try to focus people! I did not read the OP. The length was too great a discouragement, so someone please synopsize it for me.
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Posted 7/29/08
LOL. You're telling me what I believe and don't believe and what I read and haven''t read??? What kind of illogical, emotional response is that?? I read all your articles and your OP very carefully and my reading comprehension is top-notch. I've responded to your posts in substance whereas you've given me lazy quips and bad references. Just state your opinion matter of fact in your own language without the drama please. Let's get into a pointless pissing match.

You thinking in your own head that I didn't read the OP, that religious people hold beliefs blindly and unreasonably, or any other silly assumptions that lessens your responsive burden, is the very kind of made-up strawman argumentation that you seem to be unable free yourself from.

I speak only as a Christian theist and I believe my worldview is not only reasonable and logical, it is the ONLY reasonable and logical worldview. Atheism by far requires more dogmatic adherence to blind faith than any serious theistic belief.

btw according to your OP philosophy is nonsense since it isn't based on empiricism and repeatable experimentation along with morality, love, music, art, logic, objective truth. You haven't even tried to explain that.


leviathan343 wrote: He didn't read the OP, obviously. I won't answer until he pulls his head out of his ass. Reading comprehension FTW. Referring to strawmen, irony FTL.

Religion is not based on reason at all. Reason and philosophy are only used in defense of Christianity after it was established. The Bible is not based on Augustine's writings nor Anselm's ontological proofs.

I'm officially starting to hate this forum and the idiocy in it.


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Posted 7/29/08

melonbarmonster wrote:

LOL. You're telling me what I believe and don't believe and what I read and haven''t read??? What kind of illogical, emotional response is that?? I read all your articles and your OP very carefully and my reading comprehension is top-notch. I've responded to your posts in substance whereas you've given me lazy quips and bad references. Just state your opinion matter of fact in your own language without the drama please. Let's get into a pointless pissing match.

You thinking in your own head that I didn't read the OP, that religious people hold beliefs blindly and unreasonably, or any other silly assumptions that lessens your responsive burden, is the very kind of made-up strawman argumentation that you seem to be unable free yourself from.

I speak only as a Christian theist and I believe my worldview is not only reasonable and logical, it is the ONLY reasonable and logical worldview. Atheism by far requires more dogmatic adherence to blind faith than any serious theistic belief.

btw according to your OP philosophy is nonsense since it isn't based on empiricism and repeatable experimentation along with morality, love, music, art, logic, objective truth. You haven't even tried to explain that.


leviathan343 wrote: He didn't read the OP, obviously. I won't answer until he pulls his head out of his ass. Reading comprehension FTW. Referring to strawmen, irony FTL.

Religion is not based on reason at all. Reason and philosophy are only used in defense of Christianity after it was established. The Bible is not based on Augustine's writings nor Anselm's ontological proofs.

I'm officially starting to hate this forum and the idiocy in it.




True. Atheism does at times employ much more dogmatism.
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Posted 7/29/08
Isn't anyone going to explain, cuz I'm not gonna read it.
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Posted 7/29/08

melonbarmonster wrote:

LOL. You're telling me what I believe and don't believe and what I read and haven''t read??? What kind of illogical, emotional response is that?? I read all your articles and your OP very carefully and my reading comprehension is top-notch. I've responded to your posts in substance whereas you've given me lazy quips and bad references. Just state your opinion matter of fact in your own language without the drama please. Let's get into a pointless pissing match.

You thinking in your own head that I didn't read the OP, that religious people hold beliefs blindly and unreasonably, or any other silly assumptions that lessens your responsive burden, is the very kind of made-up strawman argumentation that you seem to be unable free yourself from.

I speak only as a Christian theist and I believe my worldview is not only reasonable and logical, it is the ONLY reasonable and logical worldview. Atheism by far requires more dogmatic adherence to blind faith than any serious theistic belief.

btw according to your OP philosophy is nonsense since it isn't based on empiricism and repeatable experimentation along with morality, love, music, art, logic, objective truth. You haven't even tried to explain that.



You don't understand my OP, or else you wouldn't be saying that it's 'anti-theist' at all. I don't make strawmen arguments; I point them out. You have not presented any arguments to make into strawmen, only claims that have no evidence to back them up.

Your third paragraph makes me LOL with laughter. Please explain as best as you can how Christianity is the only reasonable and logical worldview than one can have. More logical than Judaism, Hinuism, Buddhism, and every other religion in the world. And better than every single philosophy as well.

Again, my OP makes no reference to anything else besides the scientific approach and the supernatural. In addition, you haven't even clarified why they cannot address those subjects. The broadest answer is that science is equally unfit to deal with those as well. Science only deals with the natural world in itself. Objective truth and logic are not existential things. Music and art are, but obviously you're referring to qualities beyond its physical qualities.
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Posted 7/29/08 , edited 7/29/08

Narc_7 wrote:
True. Atheism does at times employ much more dogmatism.


Explain and give examples.
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Posted 7/29/08

leviathan343 wrote:


Narc_7 wrote:
True. Atheism does at times employ much more dogmatism.


Explain and give examples.


No. First, you explain your OP in a nutshell.
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Posted 7/29/08 , edited 7/29/08

Narc_7 wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


Narc_7 wrote:
True. Atheism does at times employ much more dogmatism.


Explain and give examples.


No. First, you explain your OP in a nutshell.


I already did. Read the last two pages. And atheism does not employ dogmatism. If you know the definition of atheism, you wouldn't say that. There is no dogmatism in atheism because it is a belief, not a belief system.
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Posted 7/29/08
Dude, calm down. If you're not mature enough to discuss this without being sarcastic and telling people they're stupid, you should just excuse yourself from these religious discussions. I mean that's just common courtesy.

The reason why your friend says science doesn't answer questions about the supernatural is because he's equivocating religion with purpleheaded monsters, ESP and the UFO. The problem is that relying on strict empiricism and scientific methodology excludes philosophy, morality, love and host of other abstract objective truths.

That's a problem unless you think Hitler killing 6 million Jews is as moral or immoral as a chemical reaction. But that's atheism for you.


leviathan343 wrot......lligence of a brick wall if you can't understand that.

Nice try with the whole emotional appeal (anti-theist sounds evil, doesn't it?)


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Posted 7/29/08

melonbarmonster wrote:

Dude, calm down. If you're not mature enough to discuss this without being sarcastic and telling people they're stupid, you should just excuse yourself from these religious discussions. I mean that's just common courtesy.

The reason why your friend says science doesn't answer questions about the supernatural is because he's equivocating religion with purpleheaded monsters, ESP and the UFO. The problem is that relying on strict empiricism and scientific methodology excludes philosophy, morality, love and host of other abstract objective truths.

That's a problem unless you think Hitler killing 6 million Jews is as moral or immoral as a chemical reaction. But that's atheism for you.



Add in an inability to comprehend a post and blantant emotional and religious bias and you have a deal. In this case, calling you stupid is a fact and not a personal attack. Honestly, it's posted right there. How do you interpret it as 'anti-theist' when the writer specifically mentions that science cannot address the existence of a God?

I can't believe I have to repeat things that are already posted. Phrenology and astrology are singled out because they are supposed supernatural systems that are applied scientifically to certain situations. However, religion and especially God are not. Both are rejected as unscientific; doesn't mean that they don't exist. It means that they fail under the scientific method. Methodological naturalism cannot address philosophy, nor morality (love is equated with morality), nor aesthetics. Calling them objective truths is a bit of a stretch itself. However, people who understand it admit that and don't attempt to do otherwise.

That's not atheism. Again, atheism is not a belief system. It's a belief addressing one subject in particular; the existence of God. As I recall, there are plenty of atheist philosophies that have objective moral values.

If you want to have a serious conversation, drop the Hitler card. It's really an amateur move and embarrassing to say the least.



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Posted 7/29/08
Uh... dude. You're the one telling me that I didn't read the OP at all, my worldview is based on reasonless faith, I'm stupid as a brickwall, I can't read and so forth. Those are strawman claims that lessen your responsive burden. Unless you want to go back and start giving evidence for these claims, they are strawman arguments.

And you would laugh at being told that theism are far more logical than atheism because you have a strawman notion of religion and Christianity where belief in God can only be possible with dogmatic blind faith. Theism gives a reasonable account for existence of abstract, nonmaterial objective truths such as logic, morality, love, beauty, etc.. And I believe Christianity does this best which is why I'm not a Muslim or Hindu.

Let's make this easy for you and just focus on morality. Atheists have no reason for believing in existence of morality. Morality is arbitrary and yet atheists live by moral principles and use morality to complain about wrongs and injuries they experience. That's illogical and no atheist can give a logical account for their use of morality.


leviathan343 wrote:
............science is equally unfit to deal with those as well. Science only deals with the natural world in itself. Objective truth and logic are not existential things. Music and art are, but obviously you're referring to qualities beyond its physical qualities.


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Posted 7/29/08

leviathan343 wrote:


Narc_7 wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


Narc_7 wrote:
True. Atheism does at times employ much more dogmatism.


Explain and give examples.


No. First, you explain your OP in a nutshell.


I already did. Read the last two pages. And atheism does not employ dogmatism. If you know the definition of atheism, you wouldn't say that. There is no dogmatism in atheism because it is a belief, not a belief system.


The term dogmatism essentially refers the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot (like yourself/atheism). Regardless of your opinion atheism (exclusive of weak atheism) does not only lack the capacity to conceptualize the supernatural but also to essentially tolerate it.

PS. There are different degrees of atheism, if possible, specify.
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