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Afterlife is pointless
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Posted 8/26/08

YouAreDumb wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

It depends on which afterlife you're expecting.

For the part about reincarnation, read Nietzsche's approach to it.


As much as I admire him that was pretty dumb IMO.


You really can't compare conservation of momentum/energy to reincarnation, especially since the composition of the soul is unknown (assuming it exists existentially). I was just throwing something to think about.
Posted 8/26/08
it's about to be or not to be~
that's the question~

if life is gone =death~
no after life, and if there is then I'll think ,standing in front of the gates of hell"oh crap, they were right after all" but not before I do so

afterlife? live this life first please...
Posted 8/26/08

jestorebo wrote:

There are people who look to afterlife with joy. They sometimes start topics. As it is too hot to think for once (refers to geography, not my ability to think in hot weather), I thought I might start a thread.

It is not only the joy but punishment that interest me. Heaven, hell, purgatory, and reincarnation. My opinion that none of these makes much sense. Mind you, I am using the most common expressions. Hell also equals Hades and Underworld etc.

First off: reincarnation. Usually looked upon with joy. I don't get it. I can not see the desire to, for instance, experience school 1000000000 times. It makes experiencing it even once meaningless. Why? Because you've already done that. According to reincarnation you lose all knowledge when you die, otherwise you would be reborn with at least the ability to speak and have other memories of knowledge you must have possessed in a previous life. If you just have to continue experiencing things again and again, gain knowledge again and again, it loses its value. it just becomes tools, not cultivation.

Heaven: also pointless. Eternal bliss, perhaps meant at as an neverending euphoria, but it has no reason. There is no joy over getting children, helping others (not that I feel good helping others, but some do), striving together towards a goal, good work, etc. It is a pointless bliss. I do not get why people long for it.

Hell: certainly we care about it. However, the institution of hell is pointless. There is no reason to punish here. People are already dead. Even if they are rehabilitated, made to regret, it doesn't matter. All the reasons people are put in prison doesn't apply here. Unless it is the population's desire for punishment and gloating. But then people must know of and observe this. Also they must be given the chance to release the souls when they are satisfied, otherwise the punishment is obviously not done for the people.

Purgatory: leads to heaven.

Lolwut?

Reincarnation. In most religions that deal with this, if you live your life good enough, you go to some type of heaven (IE Nirvana)

Heaven. Yes, being happy all the time without needing material possessions, other people, or anything is so pointless. If you think being happy or being in a blissful state is pointless, NEVER HAVE FUN AGAIN.

Hell. It's purpose is to make you act good in the real life, so you don't get punished for forever. There's a clear point in that, I just said it.

Purgatory. Yar huh.
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Posted 8/27/08
dmit: no, in most religions with reincarnation you just get reborn. Nirvana is reality,not heaven, its just that life is suffering. The absence if suffering (because lust is absent) can not be considered "heaven".

The point is not that heaven is full of joy, its that that is it. There is no progression. Being happy without a reason is what some people with mental defects are. Still, would we like to be them? No, because we only want to be happy WITH GOOD REASON.

As for hell: I can see the reason to threaten with it, although some people get really crazy over the idea. But what is the point of making it eternal? Its not like they, or should I say "we", can repeat the offences, its not like they can be a threat to people alive or in heaven. It serves no real purpose. Even if it did, why eternal?
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Posted 8/27/08
My opinion is that afterlife does not exist, all this about being reborn, going to heaven, hell, were just fabrications devised by humans that were afraid of death, by rulers and kings as a way to fool their soldiers into fighting better, as a relief for people that were on the brink of losing their life.
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Posted 8/31/08
Wow, I must say I disagree with you allot.


jestorebo wrote:

(...)First off: reincarnation. Usually looked upon with joy. I don't get it. I can not see the desire to, for instance, experience school 1000000000 times. It makes experiencing it even once meaningless. Why? Because you've already done that. According to reincarnation you lose all knowledge when you die, otherwise you would be reborn with at least the ability to speak and have other memories of knowledge you must have possessed in a previous life. If you just have to continue experiencing things again and again, gain knowledge again and again, it loses its value. it just becomes tools, not cultivation. (...)


I don't think you really get the consept of reincarnation. It doesn't mean you start from scratch everytime, though it is convenient for you in your argumentation to say that it does. The whole point about reincarnation is that when you die, you get, you could say, amnesia. You forget everything, but still have your soul. You still have the person that all those experiences and decisions made. So that when you start off on your next life, you can do it better every time, because you learn new things in each life. The goal is generally to become a better person, and not make those same mistakes the next time. Plus even though your brain doesn't remember your previous lifetimes, your soul does to some extent or another. For example, the general idea is that if you're afraid of water in this life, then it might be that you nearly drowned or drowned in a previous one. In contradiction to what the famous philosopher John Locke said, babies aren't born as tabula rasa (latin for blank paper). We are born with a soul.



Hell: certainly we care about it. However, the institution of hell is pointless. There is no reason to punish here. People are already dead. Even if they are rehabilitated, made to regret, it doesn't matter.

Purgatory: leads to heaven.



Many people believe that hell or the purgatory is there so that you get punishment for your sins. Then you can reach heaven. If you are not punished, you will never be truly happy in heaven, because you feel you don't deserve it. Some people may be lost or something though, which is why hell is needed so they won't disrupt the peace in heaven.

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Posted 9/3/08
There is no "concept of reincarnation". Reincarnation simply means being reborn. Whatever else lies in it depends on culture and religion. According to many religions you are simply reborn, the end. Some have the principle of karma. Some indicate a process where one always becomes better/ more real/holier at every birth, or things of that sort (Plato worshippers really). But it depends.

If one really had all those experiences that you claim, at rebirth, it would mean that mistakes of the "same ole, same ole"- kind would decrease in numbers, experiences are good for little else than learning, but since this doesn't happen, I can not agree on this being the case, in any case.

If we at all remember things from previous lives some things would be familiar to us even the first time, like reading. Considering how much most people read, if there was any knowledge from life to life, one should recognize letters. Sure it could be another balphabet, but at least someone should remember it. So I don't buy knowledge passed on, therefore there can not be a huge amount of memories.

Some people are rather punished in life, even bad people. And if people can either go to heaven or hell, most people would find it more unreasonable to be sent to hell.
Hell is not needed not to dsrupt the peace in heaven. god needn't reward or punsih people. It is part of its "intervening righteousness", but god might as well just let people die without letting them burn in hell.
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Posted 9/3/08

digs wrote:

All your stereotypes about the afterlife seem to come from how the western media portrays is. In Christianity, heaven will be like a city, it says we will have jobs, re unite with loved ones, and be with God. In heaven there will be perfect peace, not mindless zombies who experience some sort of ignorant bliss. Heaven will be a perfect place.

Hell is a place of eternal judgment. Hell is where sins go, and people who die un-forgiven have sin and must go to hell. Hell is separation from God, it is eternal judgment for sin. People are sent to hell because they have sin, and sin makes them unrighteous. Unrighteousness cannot be in heaven, because heaven is perfect and righteous.

Even if you think that the afterlife is pointless, doesn't mean that you can escape it. The afterlife applies to everyone and it can't be escaped.



Hell is the earth.. death is salvation... lol kidding..
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Posted 10/5/08
my afterlife is meaningful i dont know about no one else
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20 / F / demon world/spiri...
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Posted 6/11/09
ah really?pointless huh
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Posted 2/22/10

g31025 wrote:

^ Exactly my thoughts.

If theres no afterlife, then whatever we're doing now is worthless.


That is stupid.. If this is your only life, than you would wanna live it to the fullest. So you have no regrets, after all this is your only life so make it something to be proud of.
Posted 2/22/10
I just want to be reuinted with my love ones after i die i have lost a lot people in my life so far so to say there is no after life does sorta piss me off but well who knows.
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Posted 2/22/10
wtf? who was the guy to reincarnated this thread? Where is the extended discussion in this? where is the renewed discussion? :crazy:

All the OP did was rant on how the views are pointless...he didnt explain his view or even tell us what direction to take this debate in. What are we to discuss?

Somebody send this thread back to the dead-this time no more reincarnation.Let it rest in heaven or hell or purgatory-where ever threads go when they die.peace over war
Posted 2/25/10
the only point
is disposing of a soul
when we have burnt out
the afterlife is a wasteland
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Posted 2/25/10

jestorebo wrote:

There are people who look to afterlife with joy. They sometimes start topics. As it is too hot to think for once (refers to geography, not my ability to think in hot weather), I thought I might start a thread.

It is not only the joy but punishment that interest me. Heaven, hell, purgatory, and reincarnation. My opinion that none of these makes much sense. Mind you, I am using the most common expressions. Hell also equals Hades and Underworld etc.

First off: reincarnation. Usually looked upon with joy. I don't get it. I can not see the desire to, for instance, experience school 1000000000 times. It makes experiencing it even once meaningless. Why? Because you've already done that. According to reincarnation you lose all knowledge when you die, otherwise you would be reborn with at least the ability to speak and have other memories of knowledge you must have possessed in a previous life. If you just have to continue experiencing things again and again, gain knowledge again and again, it loses its value. it just becomes tools, not cultivation.

Heaven: also pointless. Eternal bliss, perhaps meant at as an neverending euphoria, but it has no reason. There is no joy over getting children, helping others (not that I feel good helping others, but some do), striving together towards a goal, good work, etc. It is a pointless bliss. I do not get why people long for it.

Hell: certainly we care about it. However, the institution of hell is pointless. There is no reason to punish here. People are already dead. Even if they are rehabilitated, made to regret, it doesn't matter. All the reasons people are put in prison doesn't apply here. Unless it is the population's desire for punishment and gloating. But then people must know of and observe this. Also they must be given the chance to release the souls when they are satisfied, otherwise the punishment is obviously not done for the people.

Purgatory: leads to heaven.



I think that there’s a profound mistake in your understanding of the theological perspectives.

Reincarnation: Reincarnation is not something to be looked upon with joy. It’s a never ending cycle of life, death, and rebirth that Hindus and Buddhists try to escape by reaching their varying versions of enlightenment.

Heaven: The joy of getting children or helping others is continuously achieved by other means that are even more significant. It is simply a change in priority. As an infant you are content to meet your basic functions. As a small child you get your joy from watching cartoons. Whenever you are in high-school you might find your euphoria through drugs, sex, and drama. When you mature (ideally shortly after high-school,) you start to find happiness in altruism, attaining property, achieving goals, or self exploration. When you reach heaven, you find your happiness through something else--depending on which religion you’re looking at. In Christianity (or at least my interpretation therein,) that something is choosing good.

Hell: In Christianity and Islam hell is not a punishment, it’s the culmination of a bad life. It is not like a grade tacked onto a paper. It is simply the consequence of choosing evil. Islam and Christianity vary very slightly in what they think is good and what they think is evil and how they perceive the nature of good and evil. (Christianity is very black and white and argues that evil is evil, all sin is equal. Islam argues that there are different levels of evil. There’s things that are forbidden, things that are discourages, things that are encourages, and things that are required.)


Purgatory: Okay, this time you’ve actually said nothing that challenges the mainstream theology. However, for me purgatory is not a “get into heaven free,” card. It is a place of reflection where God reveals himself to you and you make the choice: embrace that goodness or reject it. You have to choose heaven or hell.

Why would anyone choose hell? Those who linger in the dark for too long find the light repulsive.


I recomend you pick up a copy of Peter Kreeft's "Between Heaven and Hell," or any of C.S Lewis' works on heaven, hell, and purgatory. In terms of reincarnation, I recommend you pick up a copy of Peter Kreeft's "Between Heaven and Hell," or any of C.S Lewis' works on heaven, hell, and purgatory. In terms of reincarnation, I recommend you start with the basics. A good survey of world religions text-book would probably serve that purpose the best. I suggest you read the sections on Buddhism and Hinduism in Mary Pat Fisher’s “Living Religions.” Once you understand the basic premise of samsara and the eightfold path to enlighten, you can move onto more in depth surveys of the concepts.
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Posted 2/25/10

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

I just want to be reuinted with my love ones after i die i have lost a lot people in my life so far so to say there is no after life does sorta piss me off but well who knows.


Hey! Jog my memory, will you? Are you a Christian or an atheist? I’m pretty sure I remember you were one or the other! X_X

Anyway, if you are a Christian I think you should know that in heaven people are not given to one-another in love as they are on earth--according to the synoptic gospels. You won’t be reunited with your loved ones, but you’ll be okay with that. You won’t be dependent on them for your happiness. Jesus talked about this whenever somebody asked him about who his wife would be in the after-life. I’ll try to find you the specific verses if you like, that way you can make your own interpretation.
Posted 2/25/10

SeraphAlford wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

I just want to be reuinted with my love ones after i die i have lost a lot people in my life so far so to say there is no after life does sorta piss me off but well who knows.


Hey! Jog my memory, will you? Are you a Christian or an atheist? I’m pretty sure I remember you were one or the other! X_X

Anyway, if you are a Christian I think you should know that in heaven people are not given to one-another in love as they are on earth--according to the synoptic gospels. You won’t be reunited with your loved ones, but you’ll be okay with that. You won’t be dependent on them for your happiness. Jesus talked about this whenever somebody asked him about who his wife would be in the after-life. I’ll try to find you the specific verses if you like, that way you can make your own interpretation.


sometimes I am not really sure myself to be honest with you, I was raised in a strong Christian family to believe this way and some times those beliefs are hard to let go. A lot of my political beliefs clash with my religious beliefs so some-times it is hard to tell I am sorry.
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