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Post Reply Japanese Katsura's Homeroom C
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Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
Konnichiwa Minna-san!
(Hello everyone!)

I figure we should learn direct style Japanese first even though most instructors teach Distal (polite) style first for the sake of actually learning quicker.

This is important: I will explain things thoroughly and I encourage questions/comments on the Japanese language. I will start with romanji and progress to kana later and maybe even Kanji. Since we can't get speaking practice or good effective listening comprehension, I'll not grade on this. Sensei and Students can take this class and ask questions. In the meantime prepare yourself.

Lesson A:

Today we shall be learning Japanese word order, the copula "da" and the particle "wa".

Now Japanese word order is very different compared to English word order.

"omae wa baka da" "You are an idiot"
S O V _____________ S V O

S= Subject O=object V=verb

Note in English the structural pattern is Subject Verb Object and Japanese is Subject Object Verb.

Omae is an informal/casual way of saying you.*note*: as a word to the wise, Japanese people often omit I and you, because it is often considered rude.

Baka is an insult whose best English equivalent would be idiot or dumb.

So what are the rest of that other stuff?

DA: is a copula that works as "to be" "is"

WA: This is a particle that marks the topic of a conversation. A good way to test if you're using "wa" right is imagining the preceding topic word and saying before it "As for XX it is...."

So to understand what I'm talking about is like this

Omae wa baka da! "As for you, you're an idiot."!

this one is wrong. look why:

Gintoki wa baka wa da.
As for Gintoki, As for an idiot, it is.

So as Review: According to the rules above which of the below sentences are really possible and which aren't?

1.Hasegawa-san wa MADAO da.
2.wa Katsura baka da
3.Ore wa Katsura
4.Sensei da wa
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Posted 7/31/08
my head is spinnig
Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
Musashi approves of your class!
I think #1 is right and so is #3 but #2 and #4 don't look like they make any sense.

+ 2 Points
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Posted 7/31/08
The Subject Object Verb pattern is important to know because that means whenever you are listening to Japanese sentences, the Verb is always at the end.
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Posted 7/31/08
Very skilled Musashi-san! Two points for you...
Posted 7/31/08
Just a suggestion but why don't you put one letter on each lesson and have us memorize it? Gradually you could make us memorize more letters at a time.
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Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
Koko: number one! Because the subject = Hasegawa, Object= MADAO , Verb = da

+1.5 points
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Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
Alright to practice this type of sentence, I'll give you vocabulary to work with:

Lesson A: Exercise #1

Nouns:
Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong hou =Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon
Justaway =obvious
buki = weapon or arms
Joi Shishi= Joi Patriots
hito =person, man and mankind
onna=woman, female
Otoko= man, male
Bushi= warrior

Gintoki wa otoko da. = Gintoki is a man.
Follow this pattern and make the following sentences in Japanese:
_________
1. Otae is a woman.
2. A Justaway is a weapon.
3. a person is a Joi patriot.
4. A Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon is a weapon.
5. Sa-chan is a woman.
6. Kondou is a man.
7. Gintoki is a warrior.
8. Joi Patriot are warriors.
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Posted 7/31/08
Very good Koko-chan.... 1 and a half point, there is also another one there that is correct. If you guess the right one I'll give you the other half point.
Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
1. Otae wa onna da
2. Justaway wa buki da
3. hito wa jouishishi da
4. Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong hou wa buki da
5. Sa-chan wa onna da
6. Kondo wa hito da
7. Gintoki wa bushi da
8. Jouishishi wa bushi da

Sometimes writing this seems awkward like number 2, 3, and 4. In Japanese do you omit the use of "a" or "an"? And on number 8 since Jouishishi is talking about multiple people wouldn't "bushi" have to become plural or does it not make a difference in Japanese?
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Posted 7/31/08 , edited 7/31/08
koko: question for the first one, what's "Ore"? and If it means anything that's related to Katsura then i think #2 is right...oh wait...#3 looks right too ahhh...i'll go with number 3 *nervous*

Exercise 1:
1.Otae wa onna da
2.Justaway wa buki da
3.Hito was Joishishi da
4.Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong hou wa buki da
5. Sa-chann wa onna da
6.Kondou wa Otoko da
7. Gintoki wa bushi da
8. Joishishi wa bushi da

+2 points

Question: does it matter if it's plural or singular? And what's the difference between da and desu? (sorry if i'm asking stuff that's skipping infront)

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Posted 7/31/08
In this instance no it doesn't make a difference with plurals here, because the Joi Shishi and warrior are seen as one aggregate or group. When a group is represented as a general statement, it is treated as a singular noun or nominal.

"Joui Shishi wa Bushi da" is talking about the group as a general statement therefore making it singular in Japanese. It's an odd rule, but it is grammatically correct.

and as for the "a and an" the same rule here is applied. It's a general statement, so "a" and "an" aren't used in these instances. But in the case of "a" and "the" I'll get to that later... Good job it seems like you are getting the hang of the general statement structure.
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Posted 7/31/08
Desu is polite distal form, da is direct form. I'll get to polite desu form when we go to formal polite.
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Posted 7/31/08

Fruitspunchsamurai wrote:

WA: This is a particle that marks the topic of a conversation. A good way to test if you're using "wa" right is imagining the preceding topic word and saying before it "As for XX it is...."

So to understand what I'm talking about is like this

Omae wa baka da! "As for you, you're an idiot."!



I don't get how "Wa" is used.
Posted 7/31/08

kokomousey wrote:

koko: question for the first one, what's "Ore"? and If it means anything that's related to Katsura then i think #2 is right...oh wait...#3 looks right too ahhh...i'll go with number 3 *nervous*

Exercise 1:
1.Otae wa onna da
2.Justaway wa buki da
3.Hito was Joishishi da
4.Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong hou wa buki da
5. Sa-chann wa onna da
6.Kondou wa Otoko da
7. Gintoki wa bushi da
8. Joishishi wa bushi da

Question: does it matter if it's plural or singular? And what's the difference between da and desu? (sorry if i'm asking stuff that's skipping infront)


Katsura talked about the special plural/singular case when its a group, and "ore" means "I" like "watashi" but "ore" sounds more manly and informal from the way I see it
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