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100% proved with panels, Madara is not Obito but Obito is Tobi 100% proved
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Posted 8/2/08
Ok, this thread was origanily going to be the disproval of the Madara=Obito theory once and for all, but what follows is a six hour investigation of every shippunden chap so far
this wasnt made by me i just copy and paste it here
credits to:noriyoku
source:http://forums.narutofan.com


First of all i do not believe Madara is inhabiting Obito's body, i believe it is indeed obito masquerading (excuse the pun) as Madara, and i'll explain why.
The Madara that history depicts is a warrior, lived for the battle and did not get other's to do his dirty work. This current Madara has not shown one single offensive jutsu, in every single appearance he is playing the fool and constantly fleeing.
Now why would a century old powerhouse attempt to change his ways all of a sudden.

Now this raises questions of where the real Madara is, i believe he is in fact dead why would he, if he wanted to ensure konoha's downfall not attack after Oro's failed takeover attempt, Konoha was in a state of disrepair, without a Hokage and was ripe for the taking, The Madara who the Shodaime and the Yondaime battled would not have wasted the oppurtunity.

How did he die you ask, i pose a different question back to you how would he live so long? The sharingan does not on any level grant any form of eternal youth if it does plz provide manga proof. Now Madara had already fought the first and lost and at that time we would give him a generous age of about 25, now the second time he attacked Konoha would have had to been at least 74 years later, Sarutobi had already completed his first reighn as hokage and was at least in his early fifties. This would put Madara at 99 years old. Now imagine a 99 year old, albeit a very powerful 99 year old man going all out in a last ditch effort to destroy Konoha. He loses a very hard fight and resigns himself to death his body is spent and he has no chakra.



Madara and Zetsu share a trust Madara doesn't share with anyone else and Zetsu seems to have previous and full knowledge of all "Madara's" plans

Spoiler:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/


We know almost next to nothing about zetsu other than the fact the talks to himself but when he is in the presence of Madara and they are alone there is no double speak and Madara refered to himself and Zetsu as we. Now you may ask what does this have to do with Obito Pretending to be Madara. Imagine with me if you will you are trapped under a rock on the edge of death broken and battered because u pushed your newly made jounin squad leader out of the way of of a boulder that was going to crush him.

Spoiler:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/11/



you wake up and find your self bandaged and strapped down with plant stems and roots going in and out like iv's, and the only person you have to talk too is a weird venus flytrap looking guy who saved you. You ask ifif any has come looking for you and he tells you no they haven't. You ask him to visit your home village, and he tells you your name has been placed among the honored dead, and they didn't bother to look for you. That would kinda piss me off.

Zetsu is an enigma he seems to have sort of a watcher complex and besides Madara he is the only member of Akatsuki without any village headband at all. why is that you ask. Zetsu himself may be older than the shinobi villages. we see in nature how trees can be hundreds of years old. and he could he conceivebly healed obito and got him back up to strength. now i do believe that obito may be deformed over 85% of his body, have you noticed that every piece of clothing he has on covers every single inch of skin.

Now back to Zetsu if you notice all of Zetsu's and Madara's converstions are as they are equals he never speak to Zetsu as a subordinate and Zetsu doesn't speak to him as a leader.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/07/

They speak almost as friends, Now for what reason would Obito want to destroy Konoha i don't know, my theory is, that after Zetsu rescued and healed him, he stayed with Zetsu and started "watching" with Zetsu. So they could have seen the Fourth's and Madara's brawl, and when they saw Madara in his dying state he could have either extracted any info he wanted and Zetsu could have disposed of the body.

Itachi has already shown he doesn't respect "madara" neither does pein

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/04/ itachi called "madara" a loser


People seem to think Obitio was just an average Uchiha but the manga shows us differently, the first time obito's sharingan was activated was completely different from sasuke's. Obito could tell by looking at rin that she was placed in a Genjutsu, could tell how fast the oponet was, and the guy was standing still.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/05/

Now when Sasuke first activated his sharingan he was not able to see Haku's flow of chakra he couldn't even tell how fast lee was until it was to late, That right there is one unique trait obito posessed as an uchiha.

Now we have all seen several times in the Narutoverse that when bloodline users run out of chakra or are close to death their bloodline would stop being used. Obito is completely different from every other uchiha in this respect his sharingan NEVER TURNED OFF......think about, that even when he was under a boulder could not feel his right side and was dying it was still active.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/

How has no one ever noticed this!!!!!

How does this relate to Tobi you asked, I went through panel after panel after panel. trying to find one that shows Tobi either activating or deactivating his sharingan, and you know how kishi does it with the little "shing" sound effect, you will never find that on any of Tobi's panels.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/

even when he shows his sharingan to sasuke. sasuke's sharingans activates with the sound effect, but tobi once agin just has glare.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/06/

Kishi even puts emphasis on sasuke's sharingan regression with a sfx but tobi's will always stay on. Now the naysayers will say it stays on due to EMS, and that's what i thought but searched somemore and.....

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/18/

this is the real Madara with both MS and EMS We never see tobi with EMS

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/05/

And here we see the "real" Madara after obtaining EMS or as Kishi calls it perfet Mangekiyo deactivated. this should be evidence alone that Madara (real) and tobi are two different people. But i'll give you some more evidence.

I also asked myself then how did tobi obtain mangenkiyo, and it wasn't when he helped Itachi with the masacare because he didn't According to the manga everything Itachi told sauke has always been true, he may have manipulated everyone else but he was always blunt and direct with sasuke Sasuke would have remembered in his memories. We don't know how Kakashi got his MS, but i believe Obito's eyes where special and somehow are still linked, hell Obito accuatly glared at Kakashii, and you saw Kakshi's reaction.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/02/ Now if you are gonna honestly tell me that wasn't a personal gesture towards Kakahii, then what the fuck was it?

And one more thing, the two singularity techniques, Itachi who supposedly the stongest uchiha and had more talent in the sharingan then any other user, yet never exhibited any form of a space/time jutsu. but only two other Sharingan user's have, And no what Obito uses is not teleportation as confirmed by the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/09/
once again look at Kakashii's reaction HOW THE FUCK DID I MISS THIS BEFORE!!!!!!

Now lets see the two techniques one after another

Kakshii's use on Deidara http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/05/

Obito's getaway jutsu http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/02/

OMFG AND I ALSO THOUGHT THIS WAS INTERESTING
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/ NOW COMPARE THE TWO HALVES OF FACES.


Kishi has been giving us hints long ago. and he said Kakashii was going to get screentime what bigger setup than this.

www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/

So in Summary Obito sacrifices hisself for Kakashi, gets angry when he realises that he given up as dead, swears vengance against Konoha, has a grudge against Kakshi for not watching out for Rin LIKE HE PROMISED. watches Madara and his former Sensei fight, he either finishes Madara off after taking his memories or talks to him and zetsu disposes of the body. and then takes up Madara's name because he knows it wil help him in the future. and you know what the Kiyubbi chakra didn't even react to obito i just realised that as well. And the 9tails could recognize his chakra a mile away.

So in conclusion i have prove (or at least i think i proved that Madara is not tobi, but tobi is Obito.

Plz leave comment i worked really hard on this lol. kinda got a bit obsessed.
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Posted 8/2/08
Okay, I know this is copied but you should have at least had the common reasoning not to label the thread as proof.

Apart from this, the only appeal here in this obsessive essay is the sharingan evolution concept. The rest is pretty much fuddy duddy
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Posted 8/2/08

pchery18 wrote:

Okay, I know this is copied but you should have at least had the common reasoning not to label the thread as proof.

Apart from this, the only appeal here in this obsessive essay is the sharingan evolution concept. The rest is pretty much fuddy duddy


in other words this is bullshit???

and if so why??
give me a good point
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Posted 8/2/08 , edited 8/2/08

stgzlg wrote:


pchery18 wrote:

Okay, I know this is copied but you should have at least had the common reasoning not to label the thread as proof.

Apart from this, the only appeal here in this obsessive essay is the sharingan evolution concept. The rest is pretty much fuddy duddy


in other words this is bullshit???

and if so why??
give me a good point


Reasons behind Obito for having revenge. Dude...no, I am not gonna waste my keyboarding energy on this. Obito knew he was dying. Why get angry for being left behind? I suppose kakashi and Rin should've stayed there with and get eliminated by the reinforcements the rock were going to send. Yes, glorious death at the hands of the enemy due to sheer outnumbering. (pardon my sarcasm)

And that zetsu healing a pre-pubescent kid that was buried probably 3 or 4 feet under (remember when that ninja did that splitting earth force jutsu) is soooo plausible, it makes the permanent resurection of the 4th hokage in a fanfiction look like its acutally normal. (pardon my sarcasm again).

Oh and the battle with Madara vs the 4th? Never been stated. Never been showned. Im pretty sure Madara would've mentioned that. (then again, I question his sincerity)

On the plus side, I do like the fact that it is possible that zetsu lived for more than 100 years cause of tree longevity. I just wished the guy who made this theory used it in a much better way than that.
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Posted 8/2/08
dude give it up, the question is why would madara waste his time fighting narutos group or getting the biju, the very reason he created akatsuki was to go into hiding why would he give himself away using powerful attacks against people. Another thing is were in the hell are you getting this crap about zetsu saving obito from death, zetsu does not save people he eats them that fact has been stated. Of course kakashi would be suprised seeing another person with the sharingan considering there were only 3 people before itachi died that had the sharingan, and you thank zetsu is the only person that knows madara well, apparantly kisame knows him pretty well to considering he called him mizukage.
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Posted 8/2/08

selrahc23 wrote:

dude give it up, the question is why would madara waste his time fighting narutos group or getting the biju, the very reason he created akatsuki was to go into hiding why would he give himself away using powerful attacks against people. Another thing is were in the hell are you getting this crap about zetsu saving obito from death, zetsu does not save people he eats them that fact has been stated. Of course kakashi would be suprised seeing another person with the sharingan considering there were only 3 people before itachi died that had the sharingan, and you thank zetsu is the only person that knows madara well, apparantly kisame knows him pretty well to considering he called him mizukage.


i m not obsesed with this just oi found that theory cool so i posted it here that is all
my obsesion is where the hell is the mother of naruto
i just found this cool
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Posted 8/2/08

stgzlg wrote:


selrahc23 wrote:

dude give it up, the question is why would madara waste his time fighting narutos group or getting the biju, the very reason he created akatsuki was to go into hiding why would he give himself away using powerful attacks against people. Another thing is were in the hell are you getting this crap about zetsu saving obito from death, zetsu does not save people he eats them that fact has been stated. Of course kakashi would be suprised seeing another person with the sharingan considering there were only 3 people before itachi died that had the sharingan, and you thank zetsu is the only person that knows madara well, apparantly kisame knows him pretty well to considering he called him mizukage.


i m not obsesed with this just oi found that theory cool so i posted it here that is all
my obsesion is where the hell is the mother of naruto
i just found this cool


i never said you were obsessed with it i was just making a point, and from everything ive heard narutos mother died from child birth whether thats true or not i don't know.
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Well, I think it's hard to believe Obito would search for revenge. The kid actually told his friends to leave him behind, why blaming them for doing something he asked himself? If it IS Obito, Kishimoto would have to come out with some other motive ( I won't take the thirst for revenge somehow written in the Uchihas's genetic code crap anymore).

Then you mention Kakashi's reactions when meeting with Tobi. I think that's SO far beyond reading between the lines. Everyone there was shocked by Tobi's ability. If Kakashi's surprise was indeed because he reconized the slightest connection to Obito, that would give you a master's degree in panel decoding cuz those are like 2 or 3 panels with Kakashi's shocked face on 'em and i couldn't tell a thing when I first (and 2nd) read it. (not that I'm a really observant reader, though)

And if all this theory is true, then what about the fact of Tobi being Mizukage? 'Cause that's what Kisame stated, remember? How does that fit here? Things would be like: Obito became Tobi, Tobi became Mizukage and Mizukage is playing Madara in order to who (maybe Zetsu) knows what. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it just doesn't fit well. We'll need to see more solid proofs in next chapters to believe this. We can't say it's 100% proved yet. We can't say it's true, although it's interesting to consider it may be. Those two halves of faces look a lot alike.
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Posted 8/2/08
If you are going to give your own theory, don't freakin say you proved something.
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Posted 8/3/08
Good research and analysis. 2 thumbs up for the effort.

But for me, Tobi is Madara, otherwise the official "Encyclopedia" for Naruto is wrong. >>>http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha

some things to point out
...there are those people who are (or were) called as 'immortals' because of their special techniques that lengthen their longevity. And it is not surprising if the legendary Madara Uchiha has his own longevity technique. >>>http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/18/
...they said that Obito was saved by Zetsu. Then when Obito joined the Akatsuki he must be really a subordinate to Pein and Zetsu. But in the manga it is the contrary. We can see that Pein accepts orders from Tobi. Why? Because the real founder of Akatsuki is Tobi(Madara). Pein was just placed as a figure-head leader with Madara giving Pein orders from the background.

well, i'm not trying to prove anything...
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Posted 8/3/08
oh om i understand what u all mean
and to surenku when i said i copied evrything i meant even the title xD
expect more comments
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Posted 8/3/08
Oh, well that's deceiving lol.
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Posted 8/3/08
...... umm well I did like some of the theories like with the special sharingan or with the idea that zetsu is really old, but like people have said before me zetsu is not the type to save someone and hes not the only one who mandara trusts or knows well, and kakashi's reaction seemed normal to me, he just found out of another sharingan user, weather its also cause he recognized the person I don't think can truly be proved....... Until tobi reviles his entire face I don't think you have a solid theory...

I also think that allot of what this guy said was confusing and hard to fallow ... half way though I forgot what you were trying to prove XD
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Posted 8/3/08
i think its true that tobi is obito, n plus if u think bout it, tobi spells obito jus add another o
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Posted 8/3/08
o n elessarion i kno that ur not tryn to prove nethin but wikipedia is not always rite
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