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Should marijuana be legalized?
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23 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 1/29/11


What? I always know who I am. Your the one trying to twist everything I say.

How in the hell have I been a hypocrite? I have been telling you over and over why marijuana should be legal. And instead of using any facts about anything. All you do is spew your ideological nonsense of what you think humans should be acting like. You think everyone should be like you.

Posted 1/29/11

superluccix wrote:



What? I always know who I am. Your the one trying to twist everything I say.

How in the hell have I been a hypocrite? I have been telling you over and over why marijuana should be legal. And instead of using any facts about anything. All you do is spew your ideological nonsense of what you think humans should be acting like. You think everyone should be like you.
When you universalize a practice by making it into a law, you're making everyone to act like yourself with your ideas. Not to mention when dealing strictly with the facts, it's all about the "what" and "how." But the moment when you argue about "why" with reasons, it's all "ideological nonsense" due to your overgeneralizing hypocrisy.
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Posted 1/29/11 , edited 1/29/11


No. No one is forcing anyone else to smoke marijuana. All we want is the choice to be able to. That is all. Plain and simple.

You havent been giving me the "What" and "How" with regards to marijuana and why it should be illegal. Your the one demonizing all pot smokers in the world. Your the one saying we shouldnt have the freedom to choose. You are the one who is spouting his ideological nonsense and saying that we should all just act like your own definition of proper human beings.

So tell me. Why should marijuana be illegal? When it is obviously less harmful than alcohol, and that is less harmful than what many people think in general, and that even some prescription drugs have worse side effects than being high on marijuana
Posted 1/29/11 , edited 1/29/11

superluccix wrote:



No. No one is forcing anyone else to smoke marijuana. All we want is the choice to be able to. That is all. Plain and simple.

You havent been giving me the "What" and "How" with regards to marijuana and why it should be illegal. Your the one demonizing all pot smokers in the world. Your the one saying we shouldnt have the freedom to choose. You are the one who is spouting his ideological nonsense and saying that we should all just act like your own definition of proper human beings.

So tell me. Why should marijuana be illegal? When it is obviously less harmful than alcohol, and that is less harmful than what many people think in general, and that even some prescription drugs have worse side effects than being high on marijuana
Again with the slippery slope and naturalistic argument. And you didn't even realize how you contradicted yourself in your own statement, when you asked me to explain about something you claimed that I've already did.

Finally, your own reasoning defeated your argument, when you admitted to yourself openly that marijuana is "harmful" for the users. Not beneficial enough to make it more recreational than healthy people drinking red wine with moderation, which BTW it's completely legal.

So the real motive behind your claim is so that you don't want to be criminalized for you unintentionally harming yourself.
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23 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 1/29/11


And again, you wont give me the reasons as to why you think it should be illegal, you continue to dodge the question.

Tell me how its wrong to have another liberty?

And no....by saying less harmful....I could mean something like a dry throat. That is what I meant by harmful.

Nothing has to be beneficial for it to be recreational. Where are you getting this information?

Me playing a video game isnt too beneficial...its something I want to go in my time.

HELLO!?!!?!? That is what I have been saying THE ENTIRE TIME! NOBODY WANTS TO BE CRIMINALIZED FOR SMOKING POT! PERIOD!

God why does it take you so long for you to realize this.

But at least you have finally admitted to figuring out the main reason as to why we want pot legal.

But just because we have our main reason as to why Pot should be legal....doesnt exclude the facts of other ways to use pot. Like medicinal usage.

But you wont bother telling me why it should be illegal. You will continue to dodge all the questions, attempting to say I have done another fallacy.

But at least Im finally getting you to understand.
Posted 1/29/11 , edited 1/29/11

superluccix wrote:



And again, you wont give me the reasons as to why you think it should be illegal, you continue to dodge the question.

Tell me how its wrong to have another liberty?

And no....by saying less harmful....I could mean something like a dry throat. That is what I meant by harmful.

Nothing has to be beneficial for it to be recreational. Where are you getting this information?

Me playing a video game isnt too beneficial...its something I want to go in my time.

HELLO!?!!?!? That is what I have been saying THE ENTIRE TIME! NOBODY WANTS TO BE CRIMINALIZED FOR SMOKING POT! PERIOD!


God why does it take you so long for you to realize this.

But at least you have finally admitted to figuring out the main reason as to why we want pot legal.

But just because we have our main reason as to why Pot should be legal....doesnt exclude the facts of other ways to use pot. Like medicinal usage.

But you wont bother telling me why it should be illegal. You will continue to dodge all the questions, attempting to say I have done another fallacy.

But at least Im finally getting you to understand.
Don't want to feel guilty is completely different than wanting to be free. So mind your own motive when your own starting point isn't about liberty through legality, but just freeing only yourself from the guilt and the shame.

And I should be asking you the same thing, as in since when did recreational activities never benefit anyone? Even video game makers indirectly benefited from every video game consumptions.

Also, don't get me wrong. I understood you even before your argument had begone, when you've been using the exact same arguments as those that came before you.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
You're no different, special, nor unique than any other pot-head that came before you with their own collective problems. So don't think that you deserve a pardon through legalization of recreational marijuana. It'll still be perceived by the rest of the society as something shameful, and you'll still be feeling guilty irregardless of this arbitrary law of yours.

Perhaps it's time for you to smoke another joint, because you can't escape from you own guilt such as you are.
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Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11
First of all, let me just say that I am 100% against drugs. I don't drink or smoke and I even avoid caffeine. However, every way you look at it, marijuana is really very harmless. Tetrahydrocannabinol is not physically addictive, unlike nicotine and is not toxic. Overdosing on Tetrahydrocannabinol is essentially physically impossible. However, marijuana apparently contains a higher concentration of benzene than tobacco which might indicate that it has a higher incidence of causing cancer. However, since marijuana is illegal, it is difficult to perform an adequate study on the health risks of smoking marijuana. This is two fold: Studies do not track marijuana usage into late adulthood and most marijuana users stop using it in their early adulthood.

Now, when you compare Tetrahydrocannabinol with ethanol, marijuana looks benign and alcohol insidious. Ethanol is INCREDIBLY easy to overdose on (if you surpass .4% blood alcohol level, the depressive effects of alcohol on your nervous system can stop your heart and breathing.) Worse yet, even small amounts of alcohol can alter your psychology in EXTREME ways. It impairs your judgement causing you to act out on impulses you would normally suppress. For example, a person may normally suppress a desire to rape someone. Alcohol can remove this inhibition and trigger someone to act out on this impulse. About 50% of acquaintance rapes involve alcohol. Many times, people have committed grave crimes, and then attempted to claim that they were intoxicated and thus not at fault. While THC is a psychoactive drug, it doesn't have nearly so pronounced of an effect as alcohol does.


Yet alcohol and tobacco are both legal, while marijuana are not. Critics of marijuana may claim that the only reason why alcohol is legal is because prohibition failed so spectacularly. The may then claim that the reason why it failed was because Americans were so addicted to alcohol that they couldn't deal with prohibition.

My opinion: currently the law is not "fair". To be "fair" we should either legalize marijuana or ban alcohol and tobacco. But those industries will fight that battle to the death. Thus we should go ahead and legalize it. I would even argue that legalizing it would be GOOD for those who are against people using marijuana:
1) The drug supply can be heavily regulated to prevent abuse
2) Marijuana could be taxed heavily and thus help fight deficits in both state and federal budgets
3) Legalizing marijuana will heavily cut into smuggling, as it would be cheaper to grow it locally than to import it from Mexico (sorry for the stereotype, but facts tend to back this one up) This will not only help the fight against terrorism, but will also hurt the drug lords in Mexico - thus helping to stabilize the Mexican government. This will also help fight human trafficking in the US and kidnapping in Mexico.

At the very least, if the drug has medicinal applications, then those should be allowed. We give far worse drugs to patients for medicinal purposes: so why not give a drug as harmless as THC to patients?
Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11

Taedrin wrote:

First of all, let me just say that I am 100% against drugs. I don't drink or smoke and I even avoid caffeine. However, every way you look at it, marijuana is really very harmless. Tetrahydrocannabinol is not physically addictive, unlike nicotine and is not toxic. Overdosing on Tetrahydrocannabinol is essentially physically impossible. However, marijuana apparently contains a higher concentration of benzene than tobacco which might indicate that it has a higher incidence of causing cancer. However, since marijuana is illegal, it is difficult to perform an adequate study on the health risks of smoking marijuana. This is two fold: Studies do not track marijuana usage into late adulthood and most marijuana users stop using it in their early adulthood.

Now, when you compare Tetrahydrocannabinol with ethanol, marijuana looks benign and alcohol insidious. Ethanol is INCREDIBLY easy to overdose on (if you surpass .4% blood alcohol level, the depressive effects of alcohol on your nervous system can stop your heart and breathing.) Worse yet, even small amounts of alcohol can alter your psychology in EXTREME ways. It impairs your judgement causing you to act out on impulses you would normally suppress. For example, a person may normally suppress a desire to rape someone. Alcohol can remove this inhibition and trigger someone to act out on this impulse. About 50% of acquaintance rapes involve alcohol. Many times, people have committed grave crimes, and then attempted to claim that they were intoxicated and thus not at fault. While THC is a psychoactive drug, it doesn't have nearly so pronounced of an effect as alcohol does.


Yet alcohol and tobacco are both legal, while marijuana are not. Critics of marijuana may claim that the only reason why alcohol is legal is because prohibition failed so spectacularly. The may then claim that the reason why it failed was because Americans were so addicted to alcohol that they couldn't deal with prohibition.

My opinion: currently the law is not "fair". To be "fair" we should either legalize marijuana or ban alcohol and tobacco. But those industries will fight that battle to the death. Thus we should go ahead and legalize it. I would even argue that legalizing it would be GOOD for those who are against people using marijuana:
1) The drug supply can be heavily regulated to prevent abuse
2) Marijuana could be taxed heavily and thus help fight deficits in both state and federal budgets
3) Legalizing marijuana will heavily cut into smuggling, as it would be cheaper to grow it locally than to import it from Mexico
(sorry for the stereotype, but facts tend to back this one up) This will not only help the fight against terrorism, but will also hurt the drug lords in Mexico - thus helping to stabilize the Mexican government. This will also help fight human trafficking in the US and kidnapping in Mexico.

At the very least, if the drug has medicinal applications, then those should be allowed. We give far worse drugs to patients for medicinal purposes: so why not give a drug as harmless as THC to patients?
You should consider what medical marijuana is for, and used by whom. Just because that it's a "harmless" drug doesn't mean that it's for everyone, it's not a fix-all solution for most if not all medial marijuana users.

And my next point is about your contradiction of heavy marijuana tax, while you claimed that locally grown marijuana can still be cheaper than counterfeit marijuana. When heavy regulation and taxation on alcohol and tobacco only give people the reasons for black market demands of cheaper drugs.
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23 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 1/30/11


It matters not what I PERSONALLY want to use marijuana for. Everybody can use it for their own reasons. Not just mine. The fact still remains it is a liberty that can be attained. It is a fact that it can be used for medicinal purposes.

Do you not know what FUN is? Peoples definition of FUN is different for each individual person. Like I said before, you are imposing on everyone your own ideological nonsense, and believe your way of life is the only way of life.

Insanity? I can use the same retarded excuse for you. Time after time again you dodge my questions, you simply respond with your way of life and how everyone should follow it.
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Posted 1/30/11

DomFortress wrote:

You should consider what medical marijuana is for, and used by whom. Just because that it's a "harmless" drug doesn't mean that it's for everyone, it's not a fix-all solution for most if not all medial marijuana users.

And my next point is about your contradiction of heavy marijuana tax, while you claimed that locally grown marijuana can still be cheaper than counterfeit marijuana. When heavy regulation and taxation on alcohol and tobacco only give people the reasons for black market demands of cheaper drugs.


Obviously who is allowed to use marijuana for medicinal purposes is merely an argument over implementation. And you are definitely correct that just because a drug is "harmless" doesn't mean that it is for everyone. Doctors should prescribe different pain killers depending upon a patient's medical history and the symptoms involved.

Essentially, I'm saying that marijuana might be a better choice over other drugs in certain situations. For example, opiates are EXTREMELY addicting and have horrible side effects. If marijuana can be just as effective as an opiate, why not give the patient a THC pill instead of an opiate? With opiates you have a high chance that the patient will become addicted. Even worse, a patient who has used opiates for pain killers is susceptible to relapsing later in their life. With THC, these risks are greatly reduced.

As for your second point, I have to admit that I do not know very much about the economics of marijuana. Seeing as how I've never bought any, I simply figured that marijuana was rather expensive to purchase over the cost of growing it. However, if you look at alcohol and tobacco, I would argue that most people DO NOT purchase black market tobacco and alcohol. At the very least, I would argue that heavy regulations on legal marijuana would not BOOST the black market more than it already is. It would add a competitor to the market, increase supply and thus decrease prices, which decreases the profitability of smuggling which would in turn reduce smuggling. Would it eliminate smuggling? No, of course not, but I simply argue that it would be reduced.


Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11

superluccix wrote:



It matters not what I PERSONALLY want to use marijuana for. Everybody can use it for their own reasons. Not just mine. The fact still remains it is a liberty that can be attained. It is a fact that it can be used for medicinal purposes.

Do you not know what FUN is? Peoples definition of FUN is different for each individual person. Like I said before, you are imposing on everyone your own ideological nonsense, and believe your way of life is the only way of life.

Insanity? I can use the same retarded excuse for you. Time after time again you dodge my questions, you simply respond with your way of life and how everyone should follow it.
I never dodge the question, when you're just too lazy to look it up for yourself.

And once again you're only being selfish, without yourself thinking through the consequence of what you're actually supporting. Prop 19. is about legalizing recreational marijuana yes, but at the expense that the amount of consumption will be heavily regulated and controlled by the government. Now does that sound like your idea of fun and liberty to you?

Insanity indeed. When you've been flinging ignorance without yourself really take a look at the proposition itself. While you just blindingly assuming that it's a good thing.


Taedrin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You should consider what medical marijuana is for, and used by whom. Just because that it's a "harmless" drug doesn't mean that it's for everyone, it's not a fix-all solution for most if not all medial marijuana users.

And my next point is about your contradiction of heavy marijuana tax, while you claimed that locally grown marijuana can still be cheaper than counterfeit marijuana. When heavy regulation and taxation on alcohol and tobacco only give people the reasons for black market demands of cheaper drugs.


Obviously who is allowed to use marijuana for medicinal purposes is merely an argument over implementation. And you are definitely correct that just because a drug is "harmless" doesn't mean that it is for everyone. Doctors should prescribe different pain killers depending upon a patient's medical history and the symptoms involved.

Essentially, I'm saying that marijuana might be a better choice over other drugs in certain situations. For example, opiates are EXTREMELY addicting and have horrible side effects. If marijuana can be just as effective as an opiate, why not give the patient a THC pill instead of an opiate? With opiates you have a high chance that the patient will become addicted. Even worse, a patient who has used opiates for pain killers is susceptible to relapsing later in their life. With THC, these risks are greatly reduced.

As for your second point, I have to admit that I do not know very much about the economics of marijuana. Seeing as how I've never bought any, I simply figured that marijuana was rather expensive to purchase over the cost of growing it. However, if you look at alcohol and tobacco, I would argue that most people DO NOT purchase black market tobacco and alcohol. At the very least, I would argue that heavy regulations on legal marijuana would not BOOST the black market more than it already is. It would add a competitor to the market, increase supply and thus decrease prices, which decreases the profitability of smuggling which would in turn reduce smuggling. Would it eliminate smuggling? No, of course not, but I simply argue that it would be reduced.
Because marijuana could disrupts other medications, so it can't be taken with most other medicines. Especially when it can still remain in the patient's body up to 30 days, even though its effect only lasts about 6 hours. It's precisely due to this nature of the drug itself that marijuana can't be used as widely as other pain medicines.

It's a fact that black market counterfeit drugs will always be cheaper than the government regulated ones, and the reason is due to the method of production in order to ensure safety standards: the black market doesn't have one, so it can always undercut its cost lower than the government's. It's the exact same principle when it comes to electronic industry exploiting cheap labors in developing countries, in order to make a profit by any means necessary. This is what the postmodernists called "race to the bottom" in a free market economy.

Maximum freedom comes with a heavy price, remember well:

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. -Thomas Jefferson
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23 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11


I know what the consequences of Prop 19 being issued worldwide would be.

More people would use the drugs, obviously, this inevitably would lead to more people winding up in Rehab, obviously.

What about the availability of the drugs? Would it be easier or harder for people to get them? Well to people who are of the age limit to be able to buy them, obviously they will be able to have an easier time getting it. What about kids? Well its whether you think a kid has a higher chance of getting a drug from a Dealer or an actual store. And for the sake of the arguement, I will say its easier to get at the store.
Im sure there are others as well, along with the benefits of drugs

But you know why I would want it to be government regulated? Because so everyone can get the stuff, no one would have to worry about being prosecuted for smoking a joint during their own free time. But the more important reason is that we reduce the amount of Dealers and Smugglers in the world. And the MOST important reason would be we would be getting everyone out of jail who doesnt deserve to be in jail out, also, we woudnt have to spend taxpayer dollars on this failed War on Drugs

If I knew that my kid would eventually try drugs, I would want him to be getting it from a Drug Store, instead of a Dealer manipulating him to try the deadly drugs or do things that are against the law.

And OBVIOUSLY having it regulated by the government would be better than what is already happening now, it being illegal. I dont know why you think I wouldnt be satisfied with that.

Now for the 100th time. I want you to list your reasons as to why marijuana should be illegal. I dont need you to link to a study or a site. Since I could easily do the same for the opposition to it.

So list your facts. Say "Marijuana should be illegal because..." and go from there. Show you can actually list reasons
Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11

superluccix wrote:



I know what the consequences of Prop 19 being issued worldwide would be.

More people would use the drugs, obviously, this inevitably would lead to more people winding up in Rehab, obviously.

What about the availability of the drugs? Would it be easier or harder for people to get them? Well to people who are of the age limit to be able to buy them, obviously they will be able to have an easier time getting it. What about kids? Well its whether you think a kid has a higher chance of getting a drug from a Dealer or an actual store. And for the sake of the arguement, I will say its easier to get at the store.
Im sure there are others as well, along with the benefits of drugs


But you know why I would want it to be government regulated? Because so everyone can get the stuff, no one would have to worry about being prosecuted for smoking a joint during their own free time. But the more important reason is that we reduce the amount of Dealers and Smugglers in the world. And the MOST important reason would be we would be getting everyone out of jail who doesnt deserve to be in jail out, also, we woudnt have to spend taxpayer dollars on this failed War on Drugs

If I knew that my kid would eventually try drugs, I would want him to be getting it from a Drug Store, instead of a Dealer manipulating him to try the deadly drugs or do things that are against the law.


And OBVIOUSLY having it regulated by the government would be better than what is already happening now, it being illegal. I dont know why you think I wouldnt be satisfied with that.

Now for the 100th time. I want you to list your reasons as to why marijuana should be illegal. I dont need you to link to a study or a site. Since I could easily do the same for the opposition to it.

So list your facts. Say "Marijuana should be illegal because..."
and go from there. Show you can actually list reasons
It's only effective in the state of California, get it right.

It's always easier and cheaper to get counterfeit drugs from the black market, when there's no tax in order to cover for the regulation. As long as free market reigns, there's always a cheaper yet illegal option, irregardless of your laws. In other words, you just want to be pardoned and decriminalized as a drug user, while the legitimate drugs will never win in a contest of open free market against illegitimate drug suppliers. And whatever tax revenues each marijuana consumption will get will be wasted on enforcing the regulations, in the form of crackdown on illegitimate drug suppliers. The war on drugs will never ends, it'll just takes on a new form.

You don't even have a kid, and yet you're making hypothetical claims based on the assumption of uncertain future. Now how's that not "ideological nonsense"? You dreaming of yourself being a parent? What a joke. When you can't even get a girl to like you unless she's high on her own "free time."

Finally, the link was my exact opinion about Prop. 19. You stupid ignorant idiot:

DomFortress wrote:


thefinalword wrote:

in my opinion...

-helps california with the debt
controlling this substance and being able to tax this multi-billion dollar industry would help california
out of this deep rut it's in.
-More widely accepted Medicinal uses to help those who genuinely need it but couldn't legally get it before.
-Alleviates the over crowding of our jails
at least the # of people going to jail because of Marijuana would drop, the lock ups are jammed up as it is.
If the government can enforce it in the exact manner like the bill itself promised it would, then I don't see the point about arguing.

However, this is still under the assumption that the government can and will deliver whatever that the bill said it would. As soon as the accident rate caused by recreational marijuana usage increases, or public mental health is on the decline because of marijuana abuse(not addiction). Then the bill would've failed at its intentional purposes.
While insofar, those who are in support of recreational marijuana usage -- not regulation -- aren't so bright themselves IMHO.
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Posted 1/30/11 , edited 1/30/11


Obviously I meant if the world took this measure.

And no, the majority of people wouldnt try to get the illegal but cheaper drugs....when they already can get the same quality drugs legal.
People would rather get the drugs that are legal, they dont want to have to put up with any more stress of having to do drugs that are illegal. The majority of the people would definitely NOT go with the black market.

And the economy would definitely get bolstered by legalization of all the drugs. So any doubt you have of wasting money on this enforcement your talking about wont even compare.

Just because I dont have a kid....doesnt mean I cant think ahead like a parent....it doesnt mean I dont know what things will happen to my child. Yes it is a hypothetical situation....but then again....this entire arguement is a hypothetical situation so I dont know why your surprised now. And no, this is not ideological nonsense.

Ideological nonsense is when someone says that one persons way of life is wrong and his or hers is right. Even if both ways of life are permitted under the law. That is ideological nonsense....when you try to make other people not live their own life of freedom and instead tell them how to live their life. Its kinda like Religion.

And now you have lowered yourself to really petty insults.....and assume Im not worthy of being a parent.....and say the only way I get a girl is when she is high.......it really does say a lot about you.

It is clear you dont understand the concept of "Letting someone live how they want to, as long as it is within the law"

Edit: And the link you just showed was about Saying Yes on prop 19. Where does it say anything on why you would want it to be illegal?

So once again, you fail to list your own reasons.....


Posted 1/30/11

superluccix wrote:



Obviously I meant if the world took this measure.

And no, the majority of people wouldnt try to get the illegal but cheaper drugs....when they already can get the same quality drugs legal.
People would rather get the drugs that are legal, they dont want to have to put up with any more stress of having to do drugs that are illegal. The majority of the people would definitely NOT go with the black market.

And the economy would definitely get bolstered by legalization of all the drugs. So any doubt you have of wasting money on this enforcement your talking about wont even compare.


Just because I dont have a kid....doesnt mean I cant think ahead like a parent....it doesnt mean I dont know what things will happen to my child. Yes it is a hypothetical situation....but then again....this entire arguement is a hypothetical situation so I dont know why your surprised now. And no, this is not ideological nonsense.

Ideological nonsense is when someone says that one persons way of life is wrong and his or hers is right. Even if both ways of life are permitted under the law. That is ideological nonsense....when you try to make other people not live their own life of freedom and instead tell them how to live their life. Its kinda like Religion.

And now you have lowered yourself to really petty insults.....and assume Im not worthy of being a parent.....and say the only way I get a girl is when she is high.......it really does say a lot about you.

It is clear you dont understand the concept of "Letting someone live how they want to, as long as it is within the law"

Edit: And the link you just showed was about Saying Yes on prop 19. Where does it say anything on why you would want it to be illegal?

So once again, you fail to list your own reasons.....
Even more ideological nonsense, when you didn't explain how the majority would follow your ideal, it's like you're preaching a religion.

I didn't say why recreational marijuana should be illegal, you dumb ass. When I was only making categorical reasons on how the proposition itself will not work, based on existing historical facts of every known government regulated drug policy had failed to close the loopholes in illegitimate supply. While it only creates a demand for cheaper drugs under the rule of free market.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
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