356 cr points
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Weed should be legalized. The criminal justice system is overloaded with marijuana related arrests and quite simply weed should not be part of the 'war on drugs'. Also, by legalizing weed, the government would be able to tax its largest cash crop - thus creating a large income - while protecting the consumers by regulating marijuana. No more laced weed from dealers. The government would make money from taxing and lower costs with less prison inmates.... not legalizing marijuana is stupid and obstinate of the government not willing to recognize that weed is not a 'big bad drug' like cocaine, or heroine.
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1142 cr points
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bluenight5555 wrote:
Weed should be legalized. The criminal justice system is overloaded with marijuana related arrests and quite simply weed should not be part of the 'war on drugs'. Also, by legalizing weed, the government would be able to tax its largest cash crop - thus creating a large income - while protecting the consumers by regulating marijuana. No more laced weed from dealers. The government would make money from taxing and lower costs with less prison inmates.... not legalizing marijuana is stupid and obstinate of the government not willing to recognize that weed is not a 'big bad drug' like cocaine, or heroine.
Very true. Furthermore, I feel like it might also curb some of the violence coming from south of the border. It would take a lot of the demand out if it were legalized and grown domestically, as well as what you've stated - keep a lot money in the country and potentially create more jobs.
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13321 cr points
Send Message: 29 / M / Silent Hill
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new to forums, wow no reply in 21 days, but YES it should be legalized, where else can you get billions of dollars to help your community - it will benefit everyone from schools, to churches, more jobs, and I don't wanna sound stereotypical but entertainment and food venues will explode in revenue.
My two cents - because of marijuana I've met the greatest people vs. meeting them from work, school, or general public.
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54421 cr points
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elestial wrote:
I think that marijuana and even some other drugs should be legalised. People are getting them now no probs. If you want it you can get it. So if you make them legal the can have places where they are made safely so the people who use it dont get bad stuff. Also i think a lot of murders happen due to drug dealing so that should go down.
I dont advocate taking drugs. Ive never done drugs(except alcohol). Anyone who takes drugs makes there own decisions.
Marijuana should definitely be legal. From a safety perspective, it is far safer than alcohol ever will be. Being an alcoholic myself (1 1/2 years sober) I can tell you that I never did stuff on weed as what I did on alcohol. Granted, you shouldn't do either to excess (IMO) but you shouldn't be put in jail for smoking weed. Also, if it were legal, it would be safer to get reliable weed not tainted by other drugs or other foreign substances that get introduced when smuggling it into the country. It would also take a significant amount of money going to gangs (like the mexican mafia) and put it back into the governments hands to use for roads schools etc... It is Americas largest cash crop, even exceeding wheat and corn. In places where it is legal for medical marijuana, the majority of users are not even REAL patients. You can get a prescription for weed by just saying you have anxiety. A doctor can't prove you don't have anxiety. Did you know you can die from detoxing on alcohol? You can ever overdose. There is physically no way you can die from ONLY smoking weed. You just pass out. This is what I learned from my little "retreat" that I went to for alcohol addiction. BTW if you are an alcoholic you can't smoke weed. There is cross-over addiction. Around 15% of people who drink are addicts while around only 9% of people who smoke weed are actually addicted. If someone could find that statistic it would be nice but I know I don't have it.
As for other drugs being legal. No I don't want coke, meth, heroin, PCP, and LSD to be legal. It would be a safety issue. The thing with the psychedelics is that there is a higher chance of people going nuts and hurting themselves. Granted they say THC gets broken down to LSD in the body but in obviously much lower doses. Plus LSD can get into your spinal fluid and later on in life you have trips without even taking it. exstasy might be good for couples counseling in moderate to low doses but if the same thing that is happening with weed happens with exstasy then I wouldn't want it. It can be used to draw people together (not just sex) but there is always "suicide tuesdays" to deal with when people use it in a large dose.
People have the right to pursue their own happiness as long as it is not a significant safety risk to society. I don't recommend taking drugs to achieve this goal but if you're going to do it anyways, I'd rather you smoke weed in a safe environment with no risk of "dirty" marijuana and not having to deal with drug dealers to get it. I also believe that when it becomes legal, they should only make it legal to purchase weed grown in the country you are from (USA in my case) so that the money doesn't somehow get back to gangs.
Well that is my two cents.
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55875 cr points
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We nearly made it legal in our country. well. Decriminalized it. Ie turned it from a 'crime' which get's you jail time, to an 'offense on summary conviction' which is usually limited to traffic violations. If you don't want your day in court just pay the fine and be on your merry way. If you do want to gamble that the traffic cop is unwilling to waste his time and won't show up... then you plead not guilty and show up for your court date. Losing in court doesn't make the ticket more expensive though...
However, officials in the US state department, The US ambassador and various US-Canada security liaisons all started rumbling about how this would cause Canada to be perceived as a 'Security Risk' which would require 'tighter border controls" (ie trade restrictions with our biggest trading partner)
Needless to say it we didn't do it. But don't think that earned any friends north of the 49th parallel even people who were against weed consider that sort of pressure to be high handed and arrogant.
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22080 cr points
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Should weed be legalized. Yes. Why? It is the individuals right to decide what is right for him/her. Also, the rationalization of corporations to take the plant and add all sorts of other crap with it to create a new "drug" to market does not rationalize that form to be legal. I have never met an individual that smokes it to be violent and a total ass hat driving to and from a location. Alcohol is another debate. Deny that. It's simply stupid to say a plant is illegal. Our government has effectively concluded an epic fail due to greed. Great job guys.
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20817 cr points
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Syndicaidramon wrote:
PepperKillsPepsi wrote:
Because I don't like the smell of smoking around every corner.
.. And, uhr. It's a drug.
So is ritalin. Should we ban ritalin?
And alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are all drugs too. Should we ban all that? And painkillers and sleeping pills?
And honestly, even if cannabis gets legalized, you won't find people smoking it on every corner. You don't smoke like 30 joints a day, you smoke maybe one or two, or perhaps three, if you're hardcore. Most regular smokers doesn't even smoke every day.
And unless it's for medicinal reasons, you won't be able to smoke it during work or school hours either, and probably not in public places, just like with drinking. Unless you're in a bar or something...
did you really just compare weed to those things you just listed...? I seriously laughed out loud.
And those "medical reasons" are complete bullshit lies. Nearly every single one of my buddies back home have medical cards that they paid 150$ dollars for and used little or fake injuries to get them. I have legitimately never met anyone who is actually suffering daily and benefits from smoking or consuming marijuana. Smoking marijuana increases appetite? Great excuse! oh lookie here!
http://www.wikihow.com/Increase-Your-Appetite
Speaking from experience, I used to smoke marijuana and I used to have the mindset that it should be legalized. Thank God I don't anymore, because all it did for me was make me lazy as fuck and wasted my money and my time. Don't even try to argue with me that it doesn't make you unproductive, because it does. The last thing I want to see now are more stoners running around dumb as fuck in today's society, which, keep in mind, is already fucked up. And I would not want my future kids to be able to have complete access of this drug.
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20817 cr points
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bigpapapurpz wrote:
DomFortress wrote:
z3i2o_d3p7h wrote:
The debate over legalization marijuana will never come to an end as you can see from the past posts. There will always be some sort of counter argument whether it really pertains to the subject or not. I believe the reason most people are against marijuana is not because of its lack of medical uses but because they think it is morally wrong. Marijuana has grown to be a huge counter culture and it's only going to get bigger. So people who are against it should just get over it. I'm sure some other post is gonna be posted quoting this and going off on some tangent that doesn't even matter. OBJECTION!
1)it can end as soon as the psychoactive drug users learn to let go of their dependence on drugs.
2)that's fatalistic excuse. Not sufficient justification for normalizing the cultural practice of surrendering human dignity for the dependency of psychoactive drugs through legislation.
1. People get addicted to all sorts of things. Should we ban all Big Macs because a few people get addicted to it? No.
2. How is smoking weed surrendering human dignity? I work, go to school and pay rent, the left over i have goes to weed and interests, if my budget allows it. Weed is not physically addictive, i guess its mentally addicting but so is anime am i right? Not only that but weed is ingrained into our culture. Marijuana has been smoked since 2737 B.C in China. Even the declaration of independence was written in hemp.
The Declaration was written on* hemp, not smoked with it.
My shoes are made with hemp, but I don't spark them up. Your entire argument is invalid. Big Macs= form of sustenance. Weed= Psychoactive drug with no proven benefits.
You can't compare a psychoactive drug to necessary sustenance, or even to Anime/television (an intangible form of entertainment).
Stoners are the biggest hypocrites of them all. Especially those who use the excuse saying that it would stop the crime of the mexican cartels if marijuana was legalized, yet they continue supporting these cartels by illegally purchasing their marijuana.
c'mon now.
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Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide DomFortress wrote:
LemonyPanda wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide DomFortress wrote:
LemonyPanda wrote:
this is my opinion on marijuana. Honestly, I think in small doses, marijuana is fine, just like alcohol. Take everything in moderation, and don't abuse it, just like how you shouldn't abuse other LEGAL substances like alcohol, fast food, or even gaming/internet addictions. There are MANY people who have been smoking marijuana for YEARS and there has been little to no damage done to their body whatsoever.
But even if it did do damage to your body, who are we to tell full grown adults what they can or can't do? In the end its all free choice and whatever you has its own consequences, you should research on it and make your own choices to decide whether or not to take up on marijuana smoking. Your contradicting moral claim in the form of "shouldn't" statement, and an amoral stance on free choice, doesn't make your opinion convincing at all.
Moreover, when the sociological process for addictive behavior in humans only requires an "if, then maybe" situation of uncertainty in reward, in order to frame an abusive and manipulative pattern within the human brain due to the result of dopamine level going over the roof. The moment when someone believes that he might feel better if he consumes marijuana, that mindset would triggered his addictive behavior, because now he's perceiving the situation in the "if, then maybe" framework. No free-choice required.
Also, "free-choice" is really an illusion. Especially when considering the reality of how "choice architecture" and "manufactured consent" can be done through the process of " framing", while OTOH humans aren't really in control of their own decision-making process. Now think about what this means. We wake up in the morning and we feel we make decisions. We wake up in the morning and we open the closet and we feel that we decide what to wear. And we open the refrigerator and we feel that we decide what to eat. What this is actually saying is that much of these decisions are not residing within us. They are residing in the person who is designing that form. When you walk into the DMV, the person who designed the form will have a huge influence on what you'll end up doing. Now it's also very hard to intuit these results. Think about it for yourself. How many of you believe that if you went to renew your license tomorrow, and you went to the DMV, and you would encounter one of these forms, that it would actually change your own behavior? Very, very hard to think that you will influence us. We can say, "Oh, these funny Europeans, of course it would influence them." But when it comes to us, we have such a feeling that we are at the drivers seat, we have such a feeling that we are in control, and we are making the decision, that it's very hard to even accept the idea that we actually have an illusion of making a decision, rather than an actual decision.
Now, you might say, "These are decisions we don't care about." In fact, by definition, these are decisions about something that will happen to us after we die. How could we care about something less than something that happens after we die? So a standard economist, someone who believes in rationality, would say, "You know what? The cost of lifting the pencil and marking a V is higher than the possible benefit of the decision, so that's why we get this effect." But, in fact, it's not because it's easy. It's not because it's trivial. It's not because we don't care. It's the opposite. It's because we care. It's difficult and it's complex. And it's so complex that we don't know what to do. And because we have no idea what to do we just pick whatever it was that was chosen for us.
---- from "Dan Ariely asks, Are we in control of our own decisions? "  I disagree, when you didn't identify just exactly what and how I've gone "complete tangent". Therefore you're making a baseless claim without factual evidence to prove it.
z3i2o_d3p7h wrote:
Well anything these days can be considered an addiction whether its marijuana, heroin, food, alcohol, or shopping. But when i say physically addictive..withdrawal and tolerance. Yah there is a physical tolerance with marijuana, but you dont see a consistent marijuana smoker shaking in his bed and sweating from withdrawal when they don't have their fix. While xanax is a legal prescription that is probably a lot stronger than alcohol and its withdrawal effects can cause death. All im trying to say is theres no logic in making marijuana illegal, when there are other legal substances that are a lot more dangerous that should be illegal. I just dont think anyone should get in trouble for possessing marijuana. Like why should someone not be able to get a job just because they smoke marijuana? I'd say, let the smokers smoke. When you address my reply to your comment, learn to use the quote function in order to establish coherence, if you're not stone enough to care less. That being said:
1)Behavior addiction can be more dangerous to individuals over the long run, because it prevents them from making sound decisions. How do drugs work in the brain to produce pleasure?
Most drugs of abuse directly or indirectly target the brain's reward system by flooding the circuit with dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter present in regions of the brain that regulate movement, emotion, cognition, motivation, and feelings of pleasure. The overstimulation of this system, which rewards our natural behaviors, produces the euphoric effects sought by people who abuse drugs and teaches them to repeat the behavior.( citation)Marijuana is the odd drug out. To the early researchers, it did not look like it should be addictive. Nevertheless, for some people, it is. Recently, a group of Italian researchers succeeded in demonstrating that THC releases dopamine along the reward pathway, like all other drugs of abuse. Some of the mystery of cannabis had been resolved by the end of the 1990s, after researchers had demonstrated that marijuana definitely increased dopamine activity in the ventral tegmental area. Some of the effects of pot are produced the old-fashioned way after all--through alterations along the limbic reward pathway.( citation) I saw Robin Williams recently talk about how he thought he was much funnier when he was doing cocaine, when he had that issue, than now. So perhaps more dopamine is related to more creativity. Dopamine, I think, changes our signal-to-noise ratio. That is, how accurate we are in finding patterns. If it's too low, you're more likely to make too many Type II errors. You miss the real patterns. You don't want to be too skeptical. If you're too skeptical, you'll miss the really interesting good ideas. Just right, you're creative, and yet you don't fall for too much baloney. Too high and maybe you see patterns everywhere. Every time somebody looks at you, you think people are staring at you. You think people are talking about you. And if you go too far on that, that's just simply labeled as madness. It's a distinction perhaps we might make between two Nobel laureates, Richard Feynman and John Nash. One sees maybe just the right number of patterns to win a Nobel Prize. The other one also, but maybe too many patterns. And we then call that schizophrenia.
---- from " Michael Shermer: The pattern behind self-deception"
2)Just because there are legalized dangerous substances, that's no excuse for legalizing other less dangerous substances. Two wrongs don't make a right, to believe otherwise is a logic fallacy.
3)This is about legalizing marijuana consumption for recreation purpose, not private possession.You'll need a separate business license to grow and possess large amount of marijuana other than individuals consumption. Get with the program.
4)THC can remain within an individual's body for a long time. Since all businesses won't risk the consequence of hiring workers who can't make sound decision, They'll fire them in order to protect their own bottom-line. In the world of amoral business ethic, people are expendable, when the corporations are arbitrary " legal persons". That means they have every rights to reject workers that will cause them to loose profits. How Long Can Marijuana Be Detected?
Some THC metabolites have an elimination half-life of 20 hours. However, some are stored in body fat and have a elimination half-life of 10 to 13 days. Most researchers agree that urine tests for marijuana can detect the presence of the drug in the body for up to 13 days.
However, there is anecdotal evidence that the length of time that marijuana remains in the body is affected by how often the person smokes, how much he smokes and how long he has been smoking. Regular smokers have reported positive drug test results after 45 days since last use and heavy smokers have reported positive tests 90 days after quitting.( citation) Syndicaidramon wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide DomFortress wrote:
Syndicaidramon wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide squirrel3d wrote:
(Since I posted it in a thread that is closed, I'll post it here )
squirrel3d wrote:
It should not be legalized and I don't wanna hear it from you stoners or you supporters who are thinking of smoking the shit.
Don't give me the excuse that it's natural. Well Tobacco is natural. Poison is natural.
And I can go down the list of all the natural things on this earth that is dangerious and poisonus for the human body.
While I'm at it, may as well link this from my YouTube page. A little video I did last week....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRCdahppuG4
Okay, and what about the fact that it's a medical substance as well?
Much in the same way as Ritalin.
What about the fact that it would take the market away from the drug dealers?
The fact that thousands of people in the US alone would not get jailtime and criminal records because of the use/selling of a substance that is less dangerous than what is already legal, and is smoked in FAR lesser amount than tobacco.
Drug related crimes would drop significantly
What about the financial gains it would bring? Not only would there be no more of the millions spent on combating the drug (which is a hopeless battle anyway), but it would also mean that the money used to buy it would go to the goverment and not the drug-lords.
And before you assume anything, no I don't smoke. 1)That's legalization for medical marijuana, not recreational marijuana. There's a difference.
2)It's historically proven that legalization of dangerous substances like tobacco and alcohol didn't eliminate said substance abuses, but neither did it stop the trades of black market bootlegged goods of said substances. Furthermore, organized criminal drug trade can still out compete government regulated program through exploitation and cost-cutting within the supply chain.
3)When money is in fact made of debt, the government and the public as a whole have no money to begin with.
1) Of course.
2) Legalization does not eliminate substance abuse, that is true. Nor does it remove the black market entirely.
However, when you look at countries like Netherlands, where all substance is legal, drug related crimes are far lower than in countries where most of these substances are illegal. Like in the US. Which is the same case as was with the mafia and the prohibition of alcohol during the 1920's US. Though surely you already know that.
And while the black market is not gone, even for the things that are legal, it's still dramaticly reduced.
Because as far as I know, the vast majority of people buy their booze and cigarettes in the stores, not in the back alleys.
3) True. But that is a thing that varies from country to country. 1)That makes all the difference, when you didn't provide sufficient justification with categorical reasoning, on why marijuana as a medicine should be used for recreational purpose. As in to "refreshment of strength and spirits after work; also : a means of refreshment or diversion : hobby"( citation). Unless these recreational drug users aren't healthy, when the fact is they are mentally sick, because they can't refresh themselves without their dependence on psychoactive drug.
2)Crime rate on illegal drug use dropped because the human laws normalized drug dependency. Just like how Japanese rape crime is low because its business laws normalizes rape, so could legalization of psychoactive drug dependency normalize the surrendering of human dignity for profit. Just ask Islam with the legalization of slavery, and the Western colonists with the " Opium War".
Also, there's an overlap of reduced crime rate in the Netherlands due to legalized free abortion.
3)Doesn't matter, considering how the Norges Bank being Norway's central bank is a privatized for-profit organization, just like the US Federal Reserves. The fact that it serves to adjust the interest rate just like how the US central bank does, means that it operates on the same exponential growth function just like every other banks does. Which means all fiat currencies throughout the world will suffer from hyperinflation due to compounding.
I fucking love you Dom, hahaha
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13321 cr points
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yo MangaSurf, which hemp shoes do you have?
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97 cr points
Send Message: 25 / M / R'lyeh
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I know someplace around my college where you can get it cheap and what is the result of that...some of my friends here are neck deep in troubles. They have become addicts and now their life is in ruins. Imagine if it will become legal :-/
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20817 cr points
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1963 cr points
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Mangasurf
did you really just compare weed to those things you just listed...? I seriously laughed out loud.
And those "medical reasons" are complete bullshit lies. Nearly every single one of my buddies back home have medical cards that they paid 150$ dollars for and used little or fake injuries to get them. I have legitimately never met anyone who is actually suffering daily and benefits from smoking or consuming marijuana.
Speaking from experience, I used to smoke marijuana and I used to have the mindset that it should be legalized. Thank God I don't anymore, because all it did for me was make me lazy as fuck and wasted my money and my time. Don't even try to argue with me that it doesn't make you unproductive, because it does.
The last thing I want to see now are more stoners running around dumb as fuck in today's society, which, keep in mind, is already fucked up. And I would not want my future kids to be able to have complete access of this drug.
And you think that your personal experience somehow makes you qualified to speak on the behalf of all people in the world?
Are you really that stupid?
I'm not gonna argue that it makes you unproductive, because it does. That's why you're not supposed to smoke it everyday. It's called moderation, something you obviously lacked.
Which is further proven by the fact that you actually think that if we legalized pot, everyone would walk around stoned all the time.
You have no one to blame but yourself for the time you've wasted getting stoned.
Alcohol is legal, but you don't go around being drunk all the time. It should be the same with weed. If you were too dumb to realize that, then that is your fault and no one else's.
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20817 cr points
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Syndicaidramon wrote:
Mangasurf
did you really just compare weed to those things you just listed...? I seriously laughed out loud.
And those "medical reasons" are complete bullshit lies. Nearly every single one of my buddies back home have medical cards that they paid 150$ dollars for and used little or fake injuries to get them. I have legitimately never met anyone who is actually suffering daily and benefits from smoking or consuming marijuana. Smoking marijuana increases appetite? Great excuse! oh lookie here!
Speaking from experience, I used to smoke marijuana and I used to have the mindset that it should be legalized. Thank God I don't anymore, because all it did for me was make me lazy as fuck and wasted my money and my time. Don't even try to argue with me that it doesn't make you unproductive, because it does.
The last thing I want to see now are more stoners running around dumb as fuck in today's society, which, keep in mind, is already fucked up. And I would not want my future kids to be able to have complete access of this drug.
And you think that your personal experience somehow makes you qualified to speak on the behalf of all people in the world?
Are you really that stupid?
I'm not gonna argue that it makes you unproductive, because it does. That's why you're not supposed to smoke it everyday. It's called moderation, something you obviously lacked.
Which is further proven by the fact that you actually think that if we legalized pot, everyone would walk around stoned all the time.
You have no one to blame but yourself for the time you've wasted getting stoned.
Alcohol is legal, but you don't go around being drunk all the time. It should be the same with weed. If you were too dumb to realize that, then that is your fault and no one else's.
Did I say I was generalizing all stoners? No. And who said I smoked every single day? I didn't. I smoked once or twice a week at the most with friends, but it did nothing good for me.
And yes, because liquor isn't a drug...
And moderation? I'm not sure I know anybody else who smoked in moderation and it's done nothing but cause problems for people i know. It's no good for society today. Just look at the person I quoted about 2 posts ago who argues my case a lot more convincing than myself.
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^^^ Let's not act from a point of misinformation.... Alcohol is, under any definition of the term that I can find, a drug...and one with significant and measurable acute and chronic associated toxicities.
And on that side-topic...an honest question...if alcohol were not a part of human society, and were introduced to the world today, does anyone here think that there's a chance in hell that it would be casually legalized? It has known addictive properties, a low ED to LD 50 ratio with an unpredictable and variable set of reaction parameters in various humans, and other than its effectiveness as a topical antiseptic, its medical uses are extremely debatable and still the matter of numerous long-term studies...and certainly with fewer evident medical uses than, for example, cocaine or morphine.
I am in no way promoting the use of any substance, or calling for the banning of alcohol, just trying to put some perspective on an extremely misinformed assertion.
Regarding the medical marijuana issue -- sadly, I think that a hell of a lot of people are using the medical aspect as an almost cynical approach to getting high. In my mind, this may damage any honest discussion of legalization simply because so many dishonest clinicians, and dishonest 'patients,' are blatantly abusing what could have been an interesting social experiment. In other words, if the majority of medical marijuana users were really using it for medical purposes, we could learn a hell of a lot, but the fact that so many people are using the medical marijuana system in a dishonest fashion accomplishes nothing except polarizing people's opinions even further apart...and I say this as a person who supported the theory of medical marijuana and still supports an honest and clinical approach to such an experiment.
To me, a lot more is gained in the legalization debate by observing and discussing places like the Netherlands or any of the other dozen or so industrialized countries worldwide that have engaged in a de facto marijuana personal use decriminalization, rather than engaging in a dishonest 'medical care' effort with blatant abuse of the system.
However, there are a few people that do actually benefit from medical marijuana, almost always people with stage 3 or worse cancers (and I've heard various wasting muscular or neurological ailments, but I'm less certain about those claims). Marijuana (not smoked, but rather ingested in food or as a butter-based pill) takes the chemotherapy edge off like nothing else on the market at present, with remarkable nausea-reducing properties and takes the mind off the pain to a degree that's only matched by continuously increasing doses of opiates, not to mention reducing the external discomfort of many aspects of paraneoplastic syndrome. Let's also not forget that maintaining appetite, including the associated maintenance of lean body mass, is a major factor in cancer survival.
It might not be a 'cure,' but it's cancer FFS! I really think a lot of personal-use drug laws need to be relaxed when it comes to making that level of disease even a tiny bit more tolerable.
And I must say this...if I'm ever given that much of a crap diagnosis with a highly probable looming expiration date, screw you people, I'm going to take whatever sort of special brownies I bloody well want...
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