Soran Ibrahim/Setsuna + 00 Gundam Vs Kira Yamato + Strike Freedom

yeah, that beam saber is just freakin big... big sword ftw!!!!

wtf seed would cancel the trans-am
nuclear power and the 2 gn drivers would cancel
kira has a defence system like no there with his flyin guns and 2 guns at the hip and his new wing type thingsand 2 blades
while 00 has a big blade and 2 gunz
its more than clear kira would win 00 wouldnt come close b/c of the defence and kira can basicly snipe him with 20 different shots at once so there is no way he could escape

Umm what?Where did that assumption come from?How tdoes SEED make Trans Am deactivate?O_o

Scientifacally speaking nuclear power is not limitless,GN Drive is.TDS moreso.

There are mobile suits with more guns than that like Quin Mantha,so your point is?

Actually 00-Raiser it has 2 Gunblades,2 sabers,missiles and 0-Raisers wing cannons.GN-Sword IIs have a number of different firing modes(from rapidfire to lang range bursts).

00-Raiser has GN Field to shield itself,quantization to rematirialize,incredible speed and mobility to dodge.That and SF and its 13 not 20.

u clearly nothing!

how is a enhanced state of concentration going to cancel the trans-am the even those with newtype like powers cant keep up with it
Kira has NO defenses. the DRAGOON SYSTEM is offensive only and the WoL only works when using tthem
the DRAGOONS are useless since the GN drives would fuck up the targeting system.


when the 0-raizer can teleport
shot a variety of different beams has missiles and a almost as much hax as the turn a

Strike Freedom and kira hands down for me...
Since trans am has it's limit, and SF is nuclear powered I think SF will own 00 raiser....

Even GN particle able to jammed the radar,mirage coloid from SF's wing of light able to do the same...

Beside DRAGOON can also be controlled by the user's spatial awareness so eventhough
the GN particle jammed it,kira still able to handle it manually...

And from pilot's point of view, coordinator is an extended human being so it still superior than
normal human (setsuna)...

Based on this I think SF will owns...

Rise STRIKE FREEDOM!!!

Btw don't be mistaken, i enjoy 00 series though...

Trans Ams limit isnt a concern for TDS,I said it quite some times already.That and its not like Trans Am-less 00-Raiser is a pushover.


I think I missed the part where Mirage Colloid had radar jamming abilities.Neutron Jammer did,but its jamming was pretty weak compared to GN and Minovsky particles.That and if SF had jamming,Kira would have problems with pulling his favorite Aimbot haxx.


Heh,even if Kira wastes time trying to reconfigure DRAGOONs for manual use,what threat would they be?Look at 00-Raiser vs Arche.

P.S Welcome Amri,now we can have a good debate unlike those crappy Youtube comments.

No resource said it has weak jamming compare to GN particle so I'll left that point... And jamming is still is jamming, no matter what it will affect your enemy's radar...

I never heard in anime or resource said TDS solving the problem of trans am... Because if it really is 00 wont out
of power when using trans am(in matter of fact,once it used the big beam saber,it ran out of power)... As far as I know it give a better power output but never really solve the problem of trans am time limitation...

It depens on the pilot how u use the funnel weapon...Since it is controlled by the user mind.... We cannot say anyone has a same way of
using it...

If I'm not misataken, the time 00 raiser destroy arche's funnel the pilot make a mistake by letting the funnel in 00 raiser's beam range ( all of them in the stright line ), this make 00 raiser able to destroy them easily.... I don't think kira will do the same mistake and let it funnels get destroyed that easily like the arche's pilot did(ali al sachez is it?). I think even rau le klueze has a better handling of the funnel than ali..

And for strike freedom, do u read bandai's explanation in the kit 1/100 mg? It said extended HiMAT is a system never shown in the anime, but the Strike Freedom possesses. It’s manifested when the HiMAT wings extend forward, revealing the gold-plated internal system, which in reality are solar energy collectors used to propel the Strike Freedom faster and faster. These systems give the Strike Freedom radical maneuverability in atmosphere and in space. Strike Freedom's golden joints is used to endure ultra-mobility beyond the limits of its design, as power is distributed across all parts, producing a luminescent effect in which light is emitted from the PS armor of the joints(gundam wiki)...

PS Btw thank you, I hope we can start a healthy debate here...

You dont need a resource to come to that conclusion.
1)Neutron Jammers' primary function is preventing Nuclear Fission,jamming of any kind is just a side-effect.
2)There has never been a situation with consistent evidence of jamming being a big problem in CE,there were a few misconviniences,but nothing like what forced Sergei to searh for Ptolemy the way he did in ep 09 S1,or how the S Field of Axis was literally blind for months due to Minovsky particles left over from the Federation assault on Axis in CDA.
3)When affecting communications,Neutron Jammers only worsened them...while GN particles simply cut them off.On top of that,NJ jamming was problem only near the places were initial carriers fell,like where Archangel was staying in ep.15-16...in other words places of their high concentration.
4)If E-Sensor can see its way through GN particle interference,Neutron Jammers wont be a problem
5)Last time I checked,SF doesnt distribute Neuton Jammers.


For the upteenth time,Trans Am depletes due to the particles stored in GN Condensers being used at once,TDS's number of particles is so big that it doesnt matter much.In episode 2,00 springs into action AFTER Trans-Am,it also seems to function well in all of it post Trans Am situations,like against Masurao,when it seemed to manuever just great.0-Raisers verniers also exhaust as much particles as they do before Tras Am...so yeah.
As for ep.17,that wasnt Trans Am,that was Trans Am Raiser,which uses all of its 300% output at once for something crazy like the that saber.


1)Why does everyone seem to call all weapons of this class Funnels?Term Remote Weapon is more valid to apply in general.
2)Actually it was having no problem shooting them down one by one,before it even went Trans Am.Meanwhile none of them could even put a dent on it.When they attacked in one formation,00-Raiser just finished the of with a big beam.Now DRAGOONs never showed to be more agile than Arche's Fangs,bot Remote Weapons seem to have quite similiar agility based on visual evidence and if something,DRAGOONs would be relatively easier to hit due to being bigger in size,that and if Fangs can work in atmosphere without limitations,it would only suggest that their thrust is higher,if it suggest anything.
3)Ali was using the same spread out formation CE characters normally use in the first half of the fight,when he was cornered he had no choice but to use the united formation.


Interesting,but its not like you have seen all of 00-Raisers either.

Hmmm... Good point you got there...

NJ indeed only limited in the short range area... It doesn't have a wide range... But what about mirage colloid... Last time I read, in terms of technology functionality minovsky, gn particle,or mirage colloid hold the same purpose which is jamming the enemy radar.... I cannot say how exactly powerful these equipment is but they' will surely give an effect into the enemy's radar.... SF indeed possess one of these equipment which is WOL... WOL is the most advance technology incorporate with the mirage colloid system... And as far as I know mirage colloid has many function similarities with minovsky particle including radar jamming function....

So we are talking only about 00 gundam here? Without riser? Then it is simple.... I dont know if my conclusion is right or not... But isn't if 00 alone going into the trans am mode the gn drive cannot hold on? It happens in the battle against graham I think... Since then 00 never do trans am without raiser supporting it.... That time graham can destroy 00 but he didn't do it... Then setsuna will loose for sure if it happen....

Ok about your second point, let me ask u something... If TDS able to provide that much of energy as u said why it can still ran out of energy when using the trans am?I think it works like this, Twin GN drive or even gn drive able to keep charging it's energy and store the energy it produce which makes it able to provide an unlimited supply of energy, IF the gundam using it in normal way... When trans am system used, it drains almost all of the energy stored which makes the gundam run out of an energy source and needed to recharge... In 00 case, since it has 2 gn drive installed it might be able to store more energy than usual, but it doesn't change the fact that it's trans am system will drain all of that energy stored and make the gundam performance decreases for that time. And I don't think it can still did that well after the trans am is finished, maybe twin GN drive able to recharge the energy faster than normal gn drive, but I think it still needs some times for the GN drive to be able to fully recharge itself and restored the energy before it can back in the best form again.. In episode 2 I think setsuna using the trans am only to stabilize the twin gn drive system since it hasn't synchronize yet till that time, he only use it for a while and going out to the battle without it, I'm not sure the trans am reach it's time limit yet... And beside when he fight against masurao isn't 00 take a supply first from the kataron's base?

DRAGOON indeed can't be used in the atmosphere fight ...Yes It can only be used in the atmospheric fight,but SF has a lot more than only the DRAGOON... And I think setsuna doesn't have that good shooting ability to be able to destroy's the funnel one by one... In the battle against fang he only able to take one down before he clean up the rest thnx to ali's decision...Kira is an extended human being to start with, he also known as an ultimate coordinator. When he goes to seed mode his decision,reflexes,ability,concentration is improving a lot, he cant be compared to ali to start with...And personally I think kira is a very great remote weapon controller he never loses even one of his DRAGOON, and he able to use it to aim and destroy many opponent without harming it's pilot including Legend in his last battle... He can use a lot of option different strategies to using SF's variety weaponry system...

We all haven't seen 00 raiser's true potential indeed, but in the matter of fact almost all of 00 raisers ability depends on it's trans am system, if it run out of time it can't shows it's true potential... But we don't know what are going to happen in last six episodes... Can't wait...

Except I dont remember Mirrage Colloid particles being used for jamming...ever.Ive seen them used in Voiture Lumiere and its derivatives,Ive seen them used for stealth clokes,Ive seen them used for nifty virus that screws up suits in a number of ways,but Ive never seen them jam anything.


No


When did it?Infact Gundams arent completely depleted post-Trans Am,their performance drops and thats it.


Trans Am Raiser does that,but not the normal one.


TDS isnt just two Drives strapped together.Its the synchronization that makes it work.You could strap 15 drives onto a Gundam,yet without synch it wont match a Gundam with TDS.


00-Raiser manuevers just fine post Trans Am,if that dodge manuever in ep.16 is of any indication.Not only that,but as I said particle output of its Thrusters dont a decrease a bit.


Lolwut?
1)First of all,Gundams dont recharge externally.Unlike every others CB Gundams recharge the ship instead of the opposite.SF is more likely to need external resupply since conventional thrusters need propellant regardless of the power source.
2)Katharon recharging 00?Are you kidding me?Not only do original Drives produce particles endlessly,but Katharon doesnt have the tech,knowledge or acces to the GN technologies.They dont have any GN suits,much less ones with original furnaces.And recharge with what?GN particles?


1)Someone needs to rewatch for he was shown to shoot down more than one.
2)His aim has improved alot since S1,even Bushido mentioned that much.


Coordinators are people with modified genes.Innovators are clone-like beings with modified genes...and nanomachines...and Quantum Brainwaves...and a link to Veda(a comuter that knows everything).Yet Setsuna overpowers them with enough tech.


Ali was said to be superhuman by Ribbons,his skills are more than enough to match any Coordinator.


Plot armor much?


So Aimbot doesnt concern DRAGOONs?


Like spamming Full Burst over and over again.

Last time i do a research i found the fact that mirage colloid can be used as radar jamming system... Try to do some research you might find it...

What I mean with ran out of energy is not powering down but more likely the gundam's performance is way decreased as well explained in season one....



Ooo Really? Then why the 00 raiser screen in episode 12 shows that it ran out of time after beating the gadessa?Isn't it using the normal trans am? Can u explain that?



I know it quite well... But it doesn't change the fact TDS in 00 or 00 raiser trans am has a time limit...



SF need an external supply? Really? U're kidding right??... In a matter of fact this is the first time I heard it... Last time I do research even an original freedom never known if it's needed any resupply or ever get resupplied in it's operational time... So... Where do u get that from? Guessing? Or u have valid source? I dont think so...



Ok even though it really didn't get any supply from kataron base, but isn't gn drive can regenerate it's power by it's own? And for how long setsuna rest in there? Isn't it enough time for TDS to be able to recharge it's power? Of course it can move well, it regains it's energy... Correct me if i'm wrong...



Hmmm... I dont know how many time I already watch this episode, but I think I can only find one fang get destroyed when setsuna try to shoot it down one by one( I have the movie).... As I said earlier the rest is wiped out in the straight line thx to ali's decision... Setsuna shooting indeed improving, I didn't say it's bad, but it isn't that good as I said in my point... You can try to watch that episode again and tell me which part I'm wrong..



Yes coordinator is a human being with the modified genes, several of them able to felt the presence of other (spatial awareness) like kira did... In 00 innovator have a link to veda, but do they have a SEED or similar thing? Do they able to improve their concentration,reflexes,accuracy, and ability during the battle? I don't think so... It's a pity innovator's suit doesn't have trans am system, if they did they will be able to match the gundams... Setsuna overpowered them because of the tech? So u mean setsuna is weaker than those innovators?



Yes, normal coordinator maybe, but not the ultimate coordinator(kira). Even normal coordinator have better reflexes, intelligence, ability than normal human.... When that coordinator possesses SEED, you cannot compare them even with a super human since they are way superior than them from the beginning.... And Kira is way superior than normal coordinator... I'll considered ali as mwu in SEED since he also a natural... But he is nowhere near kira or athrun...



It is, but as u know DRAGOON can also be controlled by users spatial awareness so it's up to kira which way he is going to use... When he destroyed the ZAFT's battle ship in SF's first launch I think he didn't use an aimbot... It needs more than an aimbot to be able to aim into the MS's main camera and weapon, it also need the pilot's accuracy since the main computer only able to lock but not aiming into the certain area... U can see in freedom's cockpit the enemy described as a white dot, all it does is lock in to the target not aim it into the certain area... It's much easier if kira aim for the lethal area all he has to do is take a shot and let the computer work alone... But he didn't do that... It proves kira accuracy is a whole different level compare to setsuna...



SF able to do way more than that... And kira prove it when he used his freedom.... Compare to freedom SF has more variety weaponry system... And Full Burst is one of the way using it... In the battle against destiny kira shows some variety way of using it...

What?Trans Am timed out but 00 was still active.Infact Trans Am never straps suits clean of power,it only decreases the performance


I never argued against it having time limit.Just that 00-Raiser isnt done in once its over.Infact,SF has its limits as well,it cant waste too much energy.


1)Thats how conventional thrusters work in real life.Thrust is created from something

2)Check out what Mark Simmons aka toysdream aka main MAHQs info supplier has to say about basics of MS propulsion:
[quote=Mark Simmons]A similar mechanism is used for propulsion. Instead of traditional chemical rockets, mobile suits are equipped with nuclear thermal rocket engines, in which propellant is heated by the reactor and then expelled to create thrust. These devices provide substantially greater fuel efficiency than chemical rocket engines (7), allowing the mobile suit to operate for longer periods and reach higher velocities in space. The same concept can be employed to create nuclear thermal jets and nuclear thermal hydrojets, which employ air and water, respectively, as propellants.


Since thermal energy from the reactor is used to generate both electrical power and rocket thrust, these two applications are competing for the same resource. In theory the allocation of this energy can be shifted back and forth depending on the needs of the moment, but in practice, mobile suits which are designed for high-speed combat often forgo the use of electricity-hungry beam weapons, or use external generators to power their weapons.

When this heat isn't being used for either purpose, it has to be disposed of via radiators or ventilation ducts to prevent the mobile suit from overheating. Since electrical generation, propulsion, and cooling all involve extracting thermal energy from the reactor and transferring it to other parts of the mobile suit's body, why not use the same mechanism for all three? The author imagines a network of thermal energy conduits running throughout the mobile suit's body, transferring reactor heat via high-pressure helium gas (8). This provides a handy explanation for the cables and tubes that decorate the exteriors of our favorite mobile suits (9).


When I mentioned Masurao,I meant that manuever that 00-Raiser did at the end of the fight along with Masurao.Both units had Trans Am down by that point.


Now that I rewatched it,he was really shown to hit one.However:
1)Thing is that in the end of the fight Ali deploys remaining Fangs,unless he called them back during the segment we were not shown,they were shot.If you insist that he called them back during the segment we werent shown,it breeds another question.Why?Only reason would be Fangs getting slaughtered and Ali saving them .
2)When Ali deployed Fangs in straight forward formation,he had no idea that 00-Raiser could fire a beam of that width.Neither wil Kira.


Um,they are better than base humans and they can sense each other(what Revive was doing to Anew for like several episodes),even control(Ribbons to Anew),their sensory range is also far greater than any pseudo-Newtype abilities any Coordinator ever showed,Ribbons overheard Tieria/Regene conversation from his moonbase for heavens sake!Quantum Brainwaves also grant them superior reflexes and concentration same way they do to Supersoldiers.All instances of Innovators being defeated so far involved Trans Am,00-Raisers haxx or both.

As for Setsuna,up until most recent episodes,pretty much.Revive pretty much would've killed him when he drew a saber through 00-Raisrs chest...but then 00-Raiser new ability of quantization kicked in.Now that his body has gone through alterings and he achieved QBW,the odds are changing.


Nope,Ali is obviously modeled after Yazan,chracter who was able to violate some of the strongest Newtypes due to his raw skill and fighting vigor.Ali has both,he is just as insane as Yazan and just as badass.Newtype powers>SEED mode,so I wouldnt jump to conclusions that fast.


Since when did Spatial Awareness become mind control?
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Btw,that reminds me of a situation where Heero fans were trying to name Heeros superhuman abilities...and they mentioned that in some manga said Heero developing sociopathy...they thought it was something related to telepathy?


They dont have to show you the console everytime it does Full Burst.


You mean attacking in conjunction with Remotes?Most pilots with Remotes do that.I dont doubt that you can get creative with SF,but Kiras own creativity took a serious dive after SEED.



P.S If any SF can beat 00-Raiser,its this.Because that color scheme suggests a certain someone as a pilot instead of Kira(not to be taken seriously).

http://wonderexcellence.sub.jp/gallery/wsfa1/wsfa1.htm




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Hey, it still active but in it's in critical time limit... As I said earlier what i meant with out of energy is not powering down, it's more like what u meant... So we are in the same channel regarding to this matter...



Hmm... Unfortunately I still cannot catch ur point that freedom needed a resupply.... I clearly didn't explain my point where it never known if during it's operational time freedom needed to resupply so dont make up a story.. . Beside, it clearly stated that it is THE BASIC OF MS PROPULSION SYSTEM... U know what that mean? Even a zaku or any other mass product suit is considered as MS... And I dont think a NUCLEAR POWERED and very advance MS like freedom or any other still using the same basic propulsion system...



Oh really? Should I watch it once again? Because as far as I remember till the end of the battle they are still using their trans am,and then they are stopped after other gundams coming to help setsuna... by that time graham said he needs to retreat because his suit almost ran out of energy because of the trans am,he barely able to dodge the attack and then retreat. So which part I am missing??..



U are also insisting that it get shot... There are may things could happen, for example... Fang is almost same with any other remote weapon, it needs to recharge... It cannot deployed all the time... And I'm not insisting, In a matter of fact I'm only tell u what I see in the anime.. And u still forcing me to believe that setsuna shot more than one even though it's proved that u are wrong... Yes kira never know that coming, but he also not stupid enough to waste his DRAGOON to attack from the same direction... He never did that and u know it...



I know they are better than normal human... I know they have better reflexes than normal human... I know they can sense each other... But That only makes them same with normal coordinator... Coordinator also has a better intelligence,reflexes,and stronger than normal human... Then what about ultimate coordinator? It's already better than normal coordinator. And add SEED possession to him, that means much greater reflexes, concentration,accuracy,and ability.... So? What do u think? Oh yeah kira also have a similar newtype ability, he can sense his enemy and danger coming... And he also able to control remote weapon using his mind thanx to it... This make him superior than innovator...

Give revive superior suit than gadessa, he would kill setsuna... Gadessa is ms specialized only on shooting an high particle beam from long distance to start with, there's no way he would able to match 00 raiser speed.... But with kira and SF it's a whole different story...



Oh please, so we are going to UC era now? Please don't make up any story again... U dont have any prove to backup it... Ali isn't even that good.... He is a great soldier and thats it... Ribon might said he is a super soldier... But please stop saying strange something like he is like yazan there's even no one pilot as good as pilot in UC era in 00 series.... UC series pilot is much better than him.... Even there are a lot of pilot in CE series which is better than him... Btw dont start any new debate here by saying newtype>SEED blablabla.... Kira also has similar newtype ability and he possess SEED... That what makes him considered as one of the elite pilot in gundam universe... So stop saying something ridiculous and get back to the topic...



Do some research and u'll find that in needs a pilot with a high spatial awareness to be able to control the remote weapon... So it's indeed related...



Yes they dont have to... But it doesnt mean that u can also make a conclusion that he is using the aimbot that time... ...
As I said it need more than the aimbot to be able to aim leg,head,hand,and weapon without harming it's pilot even in full burst mode... It needs a great accuracy of the pilot and kira able to do that...



Watch freedom first lunch in GSD u see kira did some amazing maneuver... Not only that, in the battle against destiny he shows some creativity... Against legend he did amazing maneuver to be able to dodge the attack and attack at the same time...That is creativity...



I think this is a white ZAFT strike freedom custom... the pilot still is kira but he is in ZAFT using white uniform... So it still is the same... I will choose SF anywhere anytime over 00 raiser no matter what is the color...

Dude I dunno setsuna is amazing but kira when he snaps just goes all out!!!.....
Personally Setsuna as I LOVE his gundam (even though I have kira's in my DP dont judge)
Plus Setsuna has got Trans Am plus teh twin drives.....

I appreciate anyone opinions... If u like 00 raiser better than SF it's all up to u... I wont force u to like SF better ...
And about your point about trans am and twin drive I already explained most likely everything all above...

You don't have to read it if u dont want to though...

Have a good time...