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Post Reply Spirits/ghosts, angels, and demons. Do they exists?
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23 / M / Somewhere.... per...
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Posted 8/16/12
You want to believe in something you gotta have prove that it exist...
... If there is no prove... than it is pretty lame taking about speculation as if they were real...
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Posted 8/16/12

shuyi000 wrote:

You want to believe in something you gotta have prove that it exist...
... If there is no prove... than it is pretty lame taking about speculation as if they were real...


Refer to Plato's Phaedo.

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Posted 8/16/12
Aliens and ghosts are demons. Demons will try to mimik your love ones and make yout hink they are them when they are not.
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Posted 8/18/12

popcornpuffs wrote:

Aliens and ghosts are demons. Demons will try to mimik your love ones and make yout hink they are them when they are not.


Are you high when you're typing this...?
maffoo 
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Posted 8/18/12

shuyi000 wrote:

You want to believe in something you gotta have prove that it exist...
... If there is no prove... than it is pretty lame taking about speculation as if they were real...


I disagree. If someone wants to believe in something, they don't need to have any proof. If they want to convince (or indeed force) someone else to believe in it, then it's a different story.

That said, there are certainly a lot of people who genuinely believe that they have had an encounter with ghosts/spirits/etc, and not all of the experiences can be explained away. Is it "lame" to talk and speculate about them?
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Posted 8/18/12

maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

You want to believe in something you gotta have prove that it exist...
... If there is no prove... than it is pretty lame taking about speculation as if they were real...


I disagree. If someone wants to believe in something, they don't need to have any proof. If they want to convince (or indeed force) someone else to believe in it, then it's a different story.

That said, there are certainly a lot of people who genuinely believe that they have had an encounter with ghosts/spirits/etc, and not all of the experiences can be explained away. Is it "lame" to talk and speculate about them?


Maybe I just don't understand how can one believe wholeheartedly in something without any evidence... Let alone stuff that actually had proof against their existence...!
maffoo 
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Posted 8/19/12

shuyi000 wrote:


maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

You want to believe in something you gotta have prove that it exist...
... If there is no prove... than it is pretty lame taking about speculation as if they were real...


I disagree. If someone wants to believe in something, they don't need to have any proof. If they want to convince (or indeed force) someone else to believe in it, then it's a different story.

That said, there are certainly a lot of people who genuinely believe that they have had an encounter with ghosts/spirits/etc, and not all of the experiences can be explained away. Is it "lame" to talk and speculate about them?


Maybe I just don't understand how can one believe wholeheartedly in something without any evidence... Let alone stuff that actually had proof against their existence...!


Maybe some people find it comforting to believe in spirits? If ghosts and spirits exist, it suggests that there is life after death, which a lot of people want to believe in. If it makes them feel happier and more fulfilled, and they don't try to force their belief on others, I take a "live and let live" view.

Personally, I'm not convinced about guardian angels and the like (though again I don't have a problem with people who believe in them.) I'm open to the idea of ghosts and spirits, as I said in my earlier post a lot of people have had experiences that they believe were spirits - some can probably be explained away, but not all of them, and I don't think that it's right (or even rational) to dismiss them out of hand.
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Posted 8/19/12

maffoo wrote:
Maybe some people find it comforting to believe in spirits? If ghosts and spirits exist, it suggests that there is life after death, which a lot of people want to believe in. If it makes them feel happier and more fulfilled, and they don't try to force their belief on others, I take a "live and let live" view.

Personally, I'm not convinced about guardian angels and the like (though again I don't have a problem with people who believe in them.) I'm open to the idea of ghosts and spirits, as I said in my earlier post a lot of people have had experiences that they believe were spirits - some can probably be explained away, but not all of them, and I don't think that it's right (or even rational) to dismiss them out of hand.


You can find anything comforting... but that doesn't make it true...
The parents of a murder might find it comforting to believe that their son is being framed... but that doesn't change anything...

I believe that we. collectively as a human race would do better if every single one understand the line between factual and fantasy.
maffoo 
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Posted 8/20/12

shuyi000 wrote:


maffoo wrote:
Maybe some people find it comforting to believe in spirits? If ghosts and spirits exist, it suggests that there is life after death, which a lot of people want to believe in. If it makes them feel happier and more fulfilled, and they don't try to force their belief on others, I take a "live and let live" view.

Personally, I'm not convinced about guardian angels and the like (though again I don't have a problem with people who believe in them.) I'm open to the idea of ghosts and spirits, as I said in my earlier post a lot of people have had experiences that they believe were spirits - some can probably be explained away, but not all of them, and I don't think that it's right (or even rational) to dismiss them out of hand.


You can find anything comforting... but that doesn't make it true...
The parents of a murder might find it comforting to believe that their son is being framed... but that doesn't change anything...

I believe that we. collectively as a human race would do better if every single one understand the line between factual and fantasy.


If the parents of the murderer want to believe that their son is being framed, that is their choice. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant to them, and my view would bethat they should be left to their belief unless they start to impose it on others (for example, by attacking witnesses who they blame for the "framing" of their son.)

However, can you prove that spirits etc don't exist? How do you know that they are fantasy? Is it a conclusion that you have come to from experimentation, investigation of alleged hauntings etc or are you relying on what others have told you is fact?

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Posted 8/20/12

maffoo wrote:


If the parents of the murderer want to believe that their son is being framed, that is their choice. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant to them, and my view would bethat they should be left to their belief unless they start to impose it on others (for example, by attacking witnesses who they blame for the "framing" of their son.)

However, can you prove that spirits etc don't exist? How do you know that they are fantasy? Is it a conclusion that you have come to from experimentation, investigation of alleged hauntings etc or are you relying on what others have told you is fact?



I say collectively as a human race, it would be better if everyone of us is able to differentiate facts from claims...
...
That being said, your refute about us not able to prove that "xxx" didn't exist... therefore cannot say that they don't exist...
Yes, that is true to a certain extent, it is the responsibility of the person making the claims to provide evidence for their claims... not for some other people to come up with something to disprove it....

For example, a person can claim that the spirit of his dead wife is around, and is 'living' with him...
Then, he needs to show us reasons why he believe that...
However, the way spirituality and religion works... they would tell us to STFU and just trust them, just like that...!

Ridiculous much!! Don't you think so?
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Posted 8/21/12
I like all the stories about demons and creatures and stuff because it makes things so much more exciting
maffoo 
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Posted 8/21/12

shuyi000 wrote:


maffoo wrote:


If the parents of the murderer want to believe that their son is being framed, that is their choice. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant to them, and my view would bethat they should be left to their belief unless they start to impose it on others (for example, by attacking witnesses who they blame for the "framing" of their son.)

However, can you prove that spirits etc don't exist? How do you know that they are fantasy? Is it a conclusion that you have come to from experimentation, investigation of alleged hauntings etc or are you relying on what others have told you is fact?



I say collectively as a human race, it would be better if everyone of us is able to differentiate facts from claims...
...
That being said, your refute about us not able to prove that "xxx" didn't exist... therefore cannot say that they don't exist...
Yes, that is true to a certain extent, it is the responsibility of the person making the claims to provide evidence for their claims... not for some other people to come up with something to disprove it....

For example, a person can claim that the spirit of his dead wife is around, and is 'living' with him...
Then, he needs to show us reasons why he believe that...
However, the way spirituality and religion works... they would tell us to STFU and just trust them, just like that...!

Ridiculous much!! Don't you think so?


If someone claimed that his dead wife was "living" with him, my view would be that he should be allowed to hold that belief whether there was proof or not. It would presumably help him to cope with his bereavement, and demanding proof from him would likely cause more harm than good.

As for whether people should provide proof for their claims, again, my view is that if someone states a belief they do not have to prove it until they want to convert others. Until then, I will respect their beliefs. As an example, I used to work with a guy who didn't eat meat or eggs because it was against his spiritual beliefs. I didn't follow his beliefs, but I respected him and didn't need to see proof that his beliefs were correct because he never tried to convince anyone else not to eat meat. OTOH, I tend to give a wide berth to the Christians who stand in the middle of my city with megaphones telling people to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, or their Mulsim counterparts who tell people that Islam is the "true" religion; I can't respect them because they demand that people convert based on faith alone - if they want to convert me I need to see evidence.

I agree with the principle of people being better off if they can differentiate facts from claims, but I also think that it's important to keep an open mind. Mild scepticism and critical thinking is important, but taken to its extremes it leads to dogma and closed-mindedness (which ironically is one of the things the most vocal skeptics complain about with religion!)

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Posted 8/23/12 , edited 8/23/12
Who has seen the wind?
But you feel it... sometimes the gentle breeze, sometimes the force of a dark, destructive tempest...
Everything is of the spirit...and deep down you can feel the yearnings of your soul to know what exists just out of reach, beyond that veil that cannot be lifted..

Time that runs through the hourglass, the shifting of the core, the temptations of life, the feeling that in the darkness of your room, you are not alone.

I ask again, who has seen the wind?
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Posted 8/23/12

OyOsama wrote:

I like all the stories about demons and creatures and stuff because it makes things so much more exciting


asian ghost stories are tight huh? lol
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Posted 8/23/12
i see no way that they do.
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