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Post Reply Spirits/ghosts, angels, and demons. Do they exists?
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22 / M / Mammago Garage, Y...
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Posted 8/10/08

crunchypibb wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:
Having an overactive imagination doesn't necessarily mean you're crazy or dumb, and I also say they tend to appear to those kind of people, not that they are the only ones who "see" them. It wasn't just some random statement, it was based on my personal observations of people who claim to have had experiences with ghosts, and most of them are either insane or they can't think of any better explanation as to what happened.

Also, I don't know many people who consider God to be similar to a common ghost/soul/whatever.


Go away Cuddlebuns, before I start flaming you. Ghosts are not the same as the tooth fairy or santa claus. Go find sane people who have seen spirits, they'll give you a good explaination. Obviously this is just a one sided debate, you're too dense.


I don't see any references to santa claus of the tooth fairy in my post, and I never intended to put any in there. I don't see how this is one-sided either, you even said yourself that people who have never experienced it won't understand it, and I'm not sure if I have experienced it or not. I have experienced some "strange" encounters, I just can't be sure if it was a ghost/spirit/whatever because I've never heard anyone give a better explanation than "I think they're real." So go ahead and explain it to me, so I can become a believer.

I never meant to disrespect you in any way either, so there's no need to flame me. I'm just trying to understand the opposite point of view, but again, no one has given a good explanation.
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Posted 8/10/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:
Having an overactive imagination doesn't necessarily mean you're crazy or dumb, and I also say they tend to appear to those kind of people, not that they are the only ones who "see" them. It wasn't just some random statement, it was based on my personal observations of people who claim to have had experiences with ghosts, and most of them are either insane or they can't think of any better explanation as to what happened.

Also, I don't know many people who consider God to be similar to a common ghost/soul/whatever.


Go away Cuddlebuns, before I start flaming you. Ghosts are not the same as the tooth fairy or santa claus. Go find sane people who have seen spirits, they'll give you a good explaination. Obviously this is just a one sided debate, you're too dense.


I don't see any references to santa claus of the tooth fairy in my post, and I never intended to put any in there. I don't see how this is one-sided either, you even said yourself that people who have never experienced it won't understand it, and I'm not sure if I have experienced it or not. I have experienced some "strange" encounters, I just can't be sure if it was a ghost/spirit/whatever because I've never heard anyone give a better explanation than "I think they're real." So go ahead and explain it to me, so I can become a believer.

I never meant to disrespect you in any way either, so there's no need to flame me. I'm just trying to understand the opposite point of view, but again, no one has given a good explanation.


Good, cause I had the feeling that you were insulting me with your last post. I know you didn't make reference to santa or the tooth fairy but my point was ghosts/spirits are not made up. I believe there is good evidence out there but the evidence appears to most people as, well, out there. Ghosts/spirits are not a concrete ideas fully embraced by the public simply because their existance cannot be scientifically proven, they are an abstract idea to most people.
In general, people either believe that this world is entirely materialistic or that there are invisible things out there that also interact in this world. That is the first question you have to ask yourself.
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26 / F / Morocco
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Posted 8/10/08 , edited 8/10/08
i believe in angels,demons,i believe they are living among us,but we can't see them!
but spirits,no,i think after death,there's heaven or hell,& a spirit can't go back from heaven or hell!may be they can make a contact (during dreams for exemple),but they don't live among us anymore!
I don't have a proof,i'm a big beleiver in science & i just feel bad to think that there is no scientific proofs!!
But i think science will come someday to proove it,i mean,in 18 century,no one could imagine that a man will walk on the moon!
untill that day,I guess i learnt how to seperate my scientifcs ideas & those supernatural thoughts!!
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22 / M / Mammago Garage, Y...
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Posted 8/10/08

crunchypibb wrote:

Good, cause I had the feeling that you were insulting me with your last post. I know you didn't make reference to santa or the tooth fairy but my point was ghosts/spirits are not made up. I believe there is good evidence out there but the evidence appears to most people as, well, out there. Ghosts/spirits are not a concrete ideas fully embraced by the public simply because their existance cannot be scientifically proven, they are an abstract idea to most people.
In general, people either believe that this world is entirely materialistic or that there are invisible things out there that also interact in this world. That is the first question you have to ask yourself.


Well all gods that are worshiped by all of the various religions haven't been scientifically proven either, yet most of the world's population is certain that one or some of those deities exist, even many of the people who don't believe in ghosts. So is lack of scientific evidence really the reason why they aren't widely accepted?

I'd like to see some of this evidence if you know any resources, as long as it isn't just a bunch of pictures that are most likely photoshopped.
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24 / M / Bermuda Triangle
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Posted 8/10/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:

Good, cause I had the feeling that you were insulting me with your last post. I know you didn't make reference to santa or the tooth fairy but my point was ghosts/spirits are not made up. I believe there is good evidence out there but the evidence appears to most people as, well, out there. Ghosts/spirits are not a concrete ideas fully embraced by the public simply because their existance cannot be scientifically proven, they are an abstract idea to most people.
In general, people either believe that this world is entirely materialistic or that there are invisible things out there that also interact in this world. That is the first question you have to ask yourself.


Well all gods that are worshiped by all of the various religions haven't been scientifically proven either, yet most of the world's population is certain that one or some of those deities exist, even many of the people who don't believe in ghosts. So is lack of scientific evidence really the reason why they aren't widely accepted?

I'd like to see some of this evidence if you know any resources, as long as it isn't just a bunch of pictures that are most likely photoshopped.


Well how bout you answer the statement in bold. Which are you, a materialist or a dualist? Not all evidence in the world is scientific, science isn't a field of study that can answer questions about the unseen. Try philosophy and theology.
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19 / F / Taunton Somerset
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Posted 8/10/08
To be honest i dunno if i believe it or not, cuz i've never seen one in real life...but i dont want to see one either...
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23 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 8/10/08

crunchypibb wrote:

Well how bout you answer the statement in bold. Which are you, a materialist or a dualist? Not all evidence in the world is scientific, science isn't a field of study that can answer questions about the unseen. Try philosophy and theology.


I think you mean supernatural, but whatever.
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19 / M / virginia
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Posted 8/10/08
i defininatly think they exist because of my encounters.
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22 / M / Northwest
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Posted 8/10/08
I think they exist. My dad always sees them in his dreams lol. I think i have seen some before, but im never sure
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24 / F / Awesomeville
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Posted 8/10/08

crunchypibb wrote:


WeeBoX
Would you want me to answer on your thread or here? Meh, I'll just give it here.

The brain has both an autonomicand motor function. It does function at random (involuntarily) for most of our body's processes, but when it comes to discerning a sensorium, as in the case of a paranormal event, the individual has total control of what he or she thinks it was.



By senorium you mean epiricism right? What you say is that only our concious sense is not random and our unconcious is random and unaccountable. What about involuntary action within the body, like the heart pumping or breathing. If you always had to conciously think about breathing that would be quite inconvenient. As for having full control of what we think or feel, I disagree. Most of the time we can have control of what we think of but things like fears that pop up in our mind are uncontrollable. We can repress those fears of course but it's not like you can quite smoking cold turkey and not be bothered by it.
How this connects with the topic has to do with the relationship between the soul and the physical body. The physical body is the one that stimulates pleasures and fears in our head but the soul has the power to repress and control them.


Red: No, empiricism emphasizes the formation of ideas based on experience. Sensorium is only but a little factor in acquiring this theory in knowledge. Of course, what I have emphasized is the discerning of said involuntary action which was perceiving the stimulus presented. I had placed the word, discerning there for a reason.[see bold verb in my initial post for more details]

Blue: Haven't I already stated that most of our body's processes are autonomic? Meaning involuntary? [see underlined phrases and words in my initial post for more details]

Green:
Thinking and feeling are two different things and must never be confused with the other. Thinking requires an extensive process requiring mental faculties. Hence, totally within our control. Feeling on the other hand, is as you say an uncontrollable stimulus, as in the case of sudden fear for a phenomenon. This has something to do with the impulses sent by the neurotransmitters of the adrenal cortex.

Orange:
Of course, we can suppress our fears which would then be accounted for the increased amount of time a person spend just thinking about the event. This is where feeling and thinking are molded together to create a response appropriate for the previous experience.

Purple: Actually, the brain's limbic system is responsible for stimulation, repression and control of emotion such as fear. The soul is merely a hypothetical existence used to describe an individual's other distinct half. It could never be used in a scientific manner to explain human behavior because it is a fact that our brain, particularly the limbic system, is responsible for the faculties you have mentioned.
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Posted 8/10/08
i think there real . LOL , EVEN IF I'VE NEVER seen one
and i don't plan too - but i think they are, cause why not ? right .
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24 / M / Bermuda Triangle
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Posted 8/11/08


Hmm, seems like I first misunderstood you the first time but okay I see what you're saying now. I already knew that there were physical properties that could repress fears and such but even with scientific evidence one still has to wonder.
On the topic of science, a lot of people tend to think it can answer questions concerning the complete unknown/unseen. Science can observe such things but it can never truely explain fully. What I mean is science has observed that the lymbic system responds to the brains fears and such, thus concluding this cause and effect as the explaination to how fears are repressed. But one still has to question, does the level or rate of repression depend of geneology or the person's environment? Sure the lymbic system does it's thing but that cause and effect doesn't explain the level or rate of repression.
If the level or rate of repression does come directly and completely from geneology and environment then that would mean humans are determined creatures, we can only do as the body does and what we get from our surroundings is not influence but a command. That would go against atonomy itself, even if we were able to still think free and rationally what we think of freedom wouldn't be freedom at all.
There has to be some other factor. It's not the brain because the organ itself is a determined object, by itself a biological machine if you really think about it.
In the long and short, science doesn't answer everything. It answers how and what type of questions but not why, the why questions come from philosophy. So even with scientific evidence there is still room to wonder about the existance of the soul since science in the first place can't even extinguish the idea. Science doesn't cover the field of the unknown and unseen called Metaphysics.
So with science aside, let's try to answer this question with philosophy: Is the world in itself, in essence, a pure material world or does it has some invisible, spiritual aspects as well? (let's go ahead and leave acceleration and the such out of the question, although they are invisible.)
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21 / F / Tampa, Florida
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Posted 8/14/08
I truly believe that ghosts exist.
And They are my worst fear, in the entire world.

My worst nightmare ocurred right after I played Fatal Frame 2 for the very first time. It was AWFUL.
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Posted 8/14/08
I honestly don't know. I only have five senses after all, and its something I actually am happy about.

I have a few friends claiming they had Sixth Sense... and while I don't believe they do have those and I think its one of their many nifty ways to "seem" interesting in high school -- I can't really dismiss it beyond any reasonable doubt. However, on those days when they cant sleep because they claim to see an evil spirit looking over them - I sleep tight, because I see nothing.

Ignorance is bliss.
Its also the best cure for insomnia.
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Posted 8/14/08 , edited 8/14/08
Sure, why not.

Demons, maybe not so much.

Im wondering though, if those people who said afterlife is rubbish, if they said yes (they agree that spirits/ghost.... exist), are they contradicting themselves?
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