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Hijab: Oppression or beauty?
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Posted 5/21/09

sindba-d wrote:


Khephren wrote:

Nope im not comparing.There is nothing to compare Christianity isn't a religion. its a pick and mix of older wiser religious idears, so that simple peasants can convert to the holy god and his carpenter cult leader son

its bullshit, i respect islam more than any religion ! Who are we to judge there women ? ah right its because we have the internets and were the most perfect religion and to us its wrong so they MUST change it ^^'


I didn't start this topic neither did you. No one was forced to join the discussion. On the profile of the opener don't seem to be any hints if he is a muslim or christian.

But since you don't consider Christianity a religion I would never respect a follower of a childmolester, rapist and murderer. I've always been a fan of any movement to drive the followers of Mo out of Europe.



Good for you man, i wish you all the best of luck with that

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Posted 5/21/09 , edited 5/21/09

Khephren wrote:

Good for you man, i wish you all the best of luck with that


It will come to that sooner or later.
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Posted 5/21/09

sindba-d wrote:


Khephren wrote:

Good for you man, i wish you all the best of luck with that


It will come to that sooner or later.


a chacun sa maniere d'être instruie.
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Posted 5/21/09 , edited 5/21/09

Khephren wrote:

a chacun sa maniere d'être instruie.


Je ne parle pas français.

cependant(?)

"Everyone has his own way to lead/educate(?)"

Talking about your women or the enemys of islam? LOL!

You'll only accelerate your departure.
Posted 5/21/09

Mohamed_Husain wrote:


ShroomInferno wrote:


Mohamed_Husain wrote:
Islam states in the holy book that Hijab is compulsory for a woman to protect herself from being molested.


That's great and all, but when someone wants to molest you he'll molest you regardless of how much clothing you're wearing. Other than that, if it were true that the hijab saves one from getting molested then why are there still rape cases in those countries where the hijab is a must-have? Not even mentioning how many cases are being kept in silence because of the harsh consequences that might meet you.

Not going to forget to mention that if it were true that Muslim kids were taught the right way from small on then there would be no such thing as "molest" in those places therefore no need for hijabs. By your logic one must deduce that Muslims are by default good people and therefore why would the women there need to worry about getting molested if 99% of the surrounding men are Muslim?

Either way, I'm not criticising the existence of hijabs, I'm just referring to the flawed logic that's being used to justify the existence of hijabs; protect women from getting molested.


Dear, I think i have cleared myself well. I'll give this another try to clarify your wondering.

Evil is everywhere and has been existing for all time. And every country has black sheep. What Islam aims to is to reduce the risks of getting into evil. Let me give you an example bro:

"Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down
the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijab i.e. the complete body is
covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is
wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is
a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he
tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini?
Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an
indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an
rightly says that hijab prevents women from being molested"

Those rapes that happen in Islamic countries are only results of people not following the true Islamic guidelines. As there is a Hijab for woman, there is a Hijab for men as well. Quran has given more priority to the Men's Hijab that woman! That is to 'lower his gaze'

I ask you to neglect all the bad examples of Muslims you have seen in your life and look for the religion itself. A bad follower doesn't mean a bad religion. Imagine a latest Ferrari and it happened that a bad driver was sitting behind the wheels. He drives and hits the car to the wall. Will you say Ferrari is bad? or the driver?

Preventing Molestation is only ONE reason of wearing Hijab. There are many more.. If you wanna read about this, here is a pdf document called "Answers to Non-Muslims' Common Questions about Islam". Wish you find light no matter what religious background you are from.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/10030290/Answers-to-Non-MuslimsCommon-Questions-About-Islam-by-Dr-Zakir-Naik

PEACE


I didn't wonder. All I was doing was pointing out that the "protect from molestors" argument you've listed in your initial post to justify the hijab's existence is in fact completely void.

This example is flawed, too, because you're presuming that all guys are after nudity yet what could be more curious and interesting than seeing a woman covering her body up to such an extent where one hardly recognises whether the person behind those veils is female or male. This just doubles one's curiosity to find out what's hidden behind those clothes. And if I was put into such a situation I'd go after the woman who's covered up because when putting myself into a molester's shoes I'd have to admit that it would be a lot more entertaining to tear this hijab off of her body plus it would double the humiliation level for that girl getting forcibly molested in spite of her having bothered so much to hide her body which would be another entertaining factor.
So, again, this example of yours is completely null. And for the record, no, I'm not a molester, I was just speaking of a hypothetical situation IF I was a molester which I am not.

Other than that not just from your post but also other user's posts I noticed that those who support the Hijab, or by any means are, indeed, Muslim themselves tend to write in a fashion where the only thing that's left for me to deduce from is that every girl who's not Muslim is a cheap short-clothed whore and that women from the West get raped at every corner just because they don't cover up their body which is completely ignorant of whoever who claims such a thing or at least shows a mild tendency of thinking so.

And just to add to that, I don't care about the fact that it's a Muslim thing, like I mentioned in my previous post - I don't really care about people wearing their hijab..if they wanted to they could also wear a fur coat in the midst of the summer, I wouldn't care. And I actually never mentioned the religion itself, another thing that should be noted. All I did was playing with your words.

And, no, there's not any other reason for the Hijab's existence than the one mentioned because if we'd go explicitly after Muhammad's ideology, then the hijab was implemented to help preventing women from getting molested and just for that very reason. I've checked out the link you've provided and found it pretty amusing to see that the USA was mentioned as being one of the countries with the highest rape rates yet this website fails to mention that Europe does have a liberal out view on clothing, too, and our rape rates aren't all that high. The thing is that in the West rape cases do get reported contrarily to the cases that are happening in countries that are being ruled by Shariah laws where women rather stay quiet on such matters out of fear getting punished, too.

And no, by this I'm not insulting Islam or Muslims at all. I'm just trying to "enlighten" you about the fact that those arguments of yours are completely flawed and absolutely illogical and therefore I suggest you come up with better arguments than those you've mentioned so far because like that nobody's going to give your justifications any credit.

Anyway,

Assalamu alaikum




Khephren wrote:


sindba-d wrote:


Khephren wrote:

You head of heracy ? christians killed many people for not following the religious laws...just like "evil" islamic people

we where the same as them its just christianity is bullshit its forgotten its roots it changes with generations lol like a Fab how holy and sacred is that?

Your nuns would of been in just as much danger as the women now in afghanistan,iran etc etc if they didn't follow the code

when you look at Iran you see a glimpse of the past, that in a way is sacred i respect that.


So you would compare islam today with christianity in the middle ages? And it's not forgotten, it's several hundred years ago and not now!


Nope im not comparing.There is nothing to compare Christianity isn't a religion. its a pick and mix of older wiser religious idears, so that simple peasants can convert to the holy god and his carpenter cult leader son

its bullshit, i respect islam more than any religion ! Who are we to judge there women ? ah right its because we have the internets and were the most perfect religion and to us its wrong so they MUST change it ^^'



You can't just come and bend over definitions, denominations, and other matters to your own liking such as "christianity isn't a religion" unless you really want to sound like an ignorant fellow.

1) Christianity IS a religion

Well, now that's great and all that you respect Islam more than any other religion yet it doesn't give you the right to throw false claims around a forum where some silly kid might be reading your post and take it for real. You have to be conscious of your surrounding and respond accordingly, so I suggest you rectify your statement from "christianity isn't a religion" to "christianity is a religion".

Merci beaucoup.

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Posted 5/21/09

Khephren wrote:


sindba-d wrote:


Khephren wrote:

You head of heracy ? christians killed many people for not following the religious laws...just like "evil" islamic people

we where the same as them its just christianity is bullshit its forgotten its roots it changes with generations lol like a Fab how holy and sacred is that?

Your nuns would of been in just as much danger as the women now in afghanistan,iran etc etc if they didn't follow the code

when you look at Iran you see a glimpse of the past, that in a way is sacred i respect that.


So you would compare islam today with christianity in the middle ages? And it's not forgotten, it's several hundred years ago and not now!


Nope im not comparing.There is nothing to compare Christianity isn't a religion. its a pick and mix of older wiser religious idears, so that simple peasants can convert to the holy god and his carpenter cult leader son

its bullshit, i respect islam more than any religion ! Who are we to judge there women ? ah right its because we have the internets and were the most perfect religion and to us its wrong so they MUST change it ^^'



You can't just come and bend over definitions, denominations, and other matters to your own liking such as "christianity isn't a religion" unless you really want to sound like an ignorant fellow.

1) Christianity IS a religion

Well, now that's great and all that you respect Islam more than any other religion yet it doesn't give you the right to throw false claims around a forum where some silly kid might be reading your post and take it for real. You have to be conscious of your surrounding and respond accordingly, so I suggest you rectify your statement from "christianity isn't a religion" to "christianity is a religion".

Merci beaucoup.




So says the religious follower

No i will not change my opinion and if some kid is "silly" enough to question his religion, i doubt it will be because of my post....

if your secure enough in your faith then you shouldn't be making threats to someone that doesn't believe

false claims are in bedded in Christian culture from the start like humm i didn't know... how about a carpenter claiming he is the son of god or a virgin claiming she conceived without sex or even a guy saying a burning bush talked to him etc etc

so call my claims false if you want, maybe some day it will make in the bible if some rich guy says so because well you know how the church is with rich people

Posted 5/21/09

Khephren wrote:
So says the religious follower

No i will not change my opinion and if some kid is "silly" enough to question his religion, i doubt it will be because of my post....

if your secure enough in your faith then you shouldn't be making threats to someone that doesn't believe

false claims are in bedded in Christian culture from the start like humm i didn't know... how about a carpenter claiming he is the son of god or a virgin claiming she conceived without sex or even a guy saying a burning bush talked to him etc etc

so call my claims false if you want, maybe some day it will make in the bible if some rich guy says so because well you know how the church is with rich people



I haven't threatened you at all. This is not about opinion, Khephren. This is about facts, because if we'd go after the definition of religion then Christianity completely meets up with the definition of religion which in turn makes Christianity a religion.

Well, false claims? Who are you to judge whether those are false claims or not? The thing is that by your logic one could say that Muhammad wasn't any more credible than Jesus in this case because why should Muhammad who was talking to an angel be any more credible than Jesus claiming being the son of God.

And, sorry to disappoint you - je ne suis pas un chrétien.
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Posted 5/21/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


Khephren wrote:
So says the religious follower

No i will not change my opinion and if some kid is "silly" enough to question his religion, i doubt it will be because of my post....

if your secure enough in your faith then you shouldn't be making threats to someone that doesn't believe

false claims are in bedded in Christian culture from the start like humm i didn't know... how about a carpenter claiming he is the son of god or a virgin claiming she conceived without sex or even a guy saying a burning bush talked to him etc etc

so call my claims false if you want, maybe some day it will make in the bible if some rich guy says so because well you know how the church is with rich people



I haven't threatened you at all. This is not about opinion, Khephren. This is about facts, because if we'd go after the definition of religion then Christianity completely meets up with the definition of religion which in turn makes Christianity a religion.

Well, false claims? Who are you to judge whether those are false claims or not? The thing is that by your logic one could say that Muhammad wasn't any more credible than Jesus in this case because why should Muhammad who was talking to an angel be any more credible than Jesus claiming being the son of God.

And, sorry to disappoint you - je ne suis pas un chrétien.


Neither i'm i nor im i saying Islam is better than that so called Christian religion

i frankly don't give a shit about any religion you wont to believe in orcs and goblins thats up to your imagination

Im just saying the quran makes better followers than the "bible" i doubt any christians now days would lose his life for his religion.... they would convert to enemies religion instead

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Posted 5/21/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


Khephren wrote:

Nope im not comparing.There is nothing to compare Christianity isn't a religion. its a pick and mix of older wiser religious idears, so that simple peasants can convert to the holy god and his carpenter cult leader son

its bullshit, i respect islam more than any religion ! Who are we to judge there women ? ah right its because we have the internets and were the most perfect religion and to us its wrong so they MUST change it ^^'



You can't just come and bend over definitions, denominations, and other matters to your own liking such as "christianity isn't a religion" unless you really want to sound like an ignorant fellow.

1) Christianity IS a religion

Well, now that's great and all that you respect Islam more than any other religion yet it doesn't give you the right to throw false claims around a forum where some silly kid might be reading your post and take it for real. You have to be conscious of your surrounding and respond accordingly, so I suggest you rectify your statement from "christianity isn't a religion" to "christianity is a religion".

Merci beaucoup.


Taqiyya! Taqiyya!!

Itmust be a real danger to islam if muslims say or write what they really think and believe in....

or the translation just went wrong....

and once everyone obeys, there is no need to lie anymore!!
Posted 5/21/09

Khephren wrote:
Neither i'm i nor im i saying Islam is better than that so called Christian religion

i frankly don't give a shit about any religion you wont to believe in orcs and goblins thats up to your imagination

Im just saying the quran makes better followers than the "bible" i doubt any christians now days would lose his life for his religion.... they would convert to enemies religion instead



Well, your posts did sound a bit anti-Christian and pro-Muslim though. I would have almost thought that you're Muslim yourself, lol.

Well, that I do not know. It could be that Islam is being more sharply enforced than Christianity and therefore there could be a difference in the strength of both people's devotion for their religion. I must say though that I'm not sure that by being a better follower of your religion it makes you any better than others since in both religions there are a lot of flaws to be found and both religions get easily misinterpreted due to the old language being used in both of those Holy scripts and therefore are easy prey for personal wills and wishes.

People who die for their faith could be worth of some admiration or quite contrarily viewed as fools. But that's up to oneself how we view those people.
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Posted 5/21/09
LOOOLL!

The moment I write Taqiyya i get problems conecting to crunchyroll!!! My computer nearly burned it's CPU!! That's like in "public enemy number one"!! LOL!!

Everytime that happens I know I'm in europe, in this brave new world!!
Posted 5/21/09
It's their own choice, as long as it's not forced
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Posted 5/21/09
wot sort of fuckin religion forces u wot 2 wear!!!
Posted 5/21/09 , edited 5/21/09
I Don't Wear My Hijab Anywhere But College,
It Wasn't Really Forced On Me,
But My Parents Kept On Saying Your...
Cousins Are Wearing The Hijab Why Can't You Be More Like Them.
They Always Compare Me To Them.


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Posted 5/22/09
You seem like a person who doesn't want to get convinced and I'm not gonna check back more on this topic. Quran has proved its miracle throughout more than 1400 years. Everything that is said in it has turned out to be true. That's the miracle of God. God says we (as respect) wrote the Quran and we will be the savers of it."

As it comes to discussing this with you, I hope God enlightens you and makes you look at things from a different point of view, and I gave you all the true logic, many disagree and again many get enlightened. It's all up to them. Also it's up to you to accept or not. After all, Quran states that most of non-believers will not believe no matter how much you preach them. Tell them: "u go the way you want, and let me go the way I want, God enlightens whomever he wants"

Keep in mind, no matter how smart or wise you think you are, still God is smarter, wiser.


The holy Quran says about non-believers:
"They seek to extinguish the Light of Allah with their mouths; but Allah will complete His Light, much as the unbelievers dislike it. " Quran: 61:8


Peace to you brother
it was nice talking to ya
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