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YOUR RESPONSE: Olympics Women's Gymnastics - China Too Under-aged?
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Posted 8/15/08
They DO look young, but innocent until proven guilty, I suppose. Even if they are below the age requirement, I think whoever's in charge of the Gymnastic Committee is just "denying" accusations coz that IS embarrassing especially since China's the host country and they're really trying to portray a good image (I'm assuming after watching the opening ceremony). I mean, yes they were good, and they definitely deserved gold (as much as I am rooting for Team USA), and even if they're young, they still worked their asses off equally.

I think that the Caryolis (sp?) were just bashing them because they got away with using 12 yr olds (IF that is true) because I really do think that if given the chance to get away with it, they would also use 12 yr olds for the benefits of being young (small/light etc) in gymnastics.

And I also agree that instead of seeing their talents, the world outside of China (because this underage news has reached a lot of other countries as well) sees that they won because they're underage. It's pretty sad actually. Poor girls.
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Posted 8/16/08

axbabe04u wrote:


Incontrovertible wrote:


axbabe04u wrote:


Incontrovertible wrote:

Red - Talent and determination is not age based so that comment is basically worthless.

About the talent before age shit. Nadal was practicing tennis by the age of 4 and he didn't turn pro until he was 18. There are still prereqs that should be met no matter how talented or great the athlete.

Asians look younger yes, but not like they're fucking 9-11. There is NO way in hell they should be that tiny. Also this fact tends to play a factor when Asians get older not when they are still trying to hit their first growth spurt.

Also girls hit puberty at like 9 or 12... I forgot the exact age when they "should" hit it.

The age factor is a big issue because it determines the athletes bodily maturity. Its a lot easier to spin and do flips when you're 10 than when you're 16-17.

Just because someone is older doesn't make it easier for them. Thats like saying when Pete Sampras was 30 he should be able to beat a 24 year old Federer because hes older.

Patrick Ryan's views are soooo on point.

Just a random question, but are you Chinese?





Um, to answer your first question...no, I'm not Chinese but Asian-American. You know what? You are fine with your opinion, good for you but respect mine, too. Without being defensive, it IS possible to be that tiny at 16. Why not?! People have different body types and it grows differently with each individuals especially those in sports such as gymnastics. I'm not questioning that...it's true fact!

First of all, the girls are not 10...they are infact between 15-20 so the comparison you made between a 10 year old to a 16-17 is not really something to argue about. As far as when puberty hits, you are definitely wrong because it's different with each individual. From experience, I hit puberty at 13 while I know people who have at 14-15 and we turned out pretty normal.

In addition, I never questioned age and whether or not their athleticism is better than the other. I agree with you, age has nothing to do with how athletic someone is! I've actually opposed that argument with a user on Youtube where his believed that the younger you are, the better of an athlete. That's biased and rather wrong because for example, swimmer Torres is 41 year old and still managed to win gold against those who were younger than her.


That made me lol a little bit, the red part that is.

Why can't they be that tiny? I believe I just stated the reasons earlier. The girls are supposedly 16. I don't know any girls who are at the tallest what? 4'7? For a 16 year old? Thats complete and utter crap EVEN if they are Asian.

Even if it was possible to have a whole team of little kids is quite unbelievable for all of them to be 16.

Blue - So the article link that was posted earlier was complete bullshit?

Athleticism and talent are two different words. I said talent has no age barriers not athleticism.

Also being younger has advantages and it normally DOES make you a better athlete, its not biased or wrong. Torres may have won at 41 years old, but how many times can she repeat that? Being younger gives you a chance to become faster and stronger while you're body is still able to keep up rather than having an aging body.

Its like comparing Chicago Bull's Michael Jordan to the Wizard's Michael Jordan.





Okay, again and not to act so defensive.

You're red remark. Is it really that 'lol'? It's true that I'm not Chinese but I am Asian-American. I don't believe it matters whether or not I give out my nationality or if it even has any importance in the first place.

Your blue remark. What article? Any of the few article links I've given out are not written by me; therefore, I'm not quite sure where you're getting at. To answer your question anyway, yes, I believe that article I gave out in the very first page is very biased, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.

Also, I definitely did not say that being older always has a better advantage over the younger athletes. Simply, what I was trying to say was being younger or being older doesn't entirely mean one is better than the other at all extent. Yes, the older athlete may not be able to compete with the younger athlete in a (swimming) relay after another relay but it IS possible. I'm not measuring it by how many golds an older athlete can accomplish against a younger athlete either since that's beside the point. Understood? And you're saying the obvious with being young gives you room to become better and stronger.

In addtion, yes, (atleast some) talent is what an athlete may need to accomplish in an event or sport so the 'two words' are related to each other and it's common sense to figure out that they are two different words with slightly different meanings. "Talent has no age barriers but athleticism does." I got it. But just because the body gets old doesn't mean they'll deteriorate right away! Other than my Torres example, what I had in mind was comparing two people only within a few (2-3) years difference.

Oh, I actually know some who are 4'10-5'1 that are between the ages of 15-24 and they could all pass being 12-18 because they are so tiny!



----------------------------------------



Okay wait, I'm actually quite confused at what you're trying to say now so I had to reread everything.

You're argument is...

Talent has no age barrier but athleticism does

"The age factor is a big issue because it determines the athletes bodily maturity. Its a lot easier to spin and do flips when you're 10 than when you're 16-17."

You're saying the younger the better talent and better athleticism but the athletism by 16 is not greater (than before) while the talent would continue to improve over the years. Of course with training builds athletism and even so, the body tends to get old anyway and that's a given but the rate may vary with each individual. For example, if an athelte continue to physically train over the years, he or she would still have the chance of being as good or better than the younger athletes--my example, Torres. So my point is that it IS possible for an athletic who IS older with the right amount of training to still beat a younger competitor.

Anyway, I am not dissagreeing with your talent has no barrier but athleticism does but I'm also trying to point out what I'm meant all along...whether it makes sense or not is up to you!



http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Sigh. Talent does not improve okay? Its either there or its not. Its the skill that improves. Talent is the natural ability to do that skill.

I'm going to give you the definitions of the words.

Talent - a special natural ability or aptitude

Athleticism - of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training.

I was saying when you're younger, you tend to be of a lighter weight and smaller build THEREFORE its easier to spin in the air. I said nothing having more skill or athleticism.

A 2-3 age difference in the 18+ really makes no difference until its past 28 or so. Its when the body is still maturing that a 2-3 year difference actually DOES matter. Any guy or girl who is generally 12-13 will be different in size and weight at 15-16.

So the smallest person you know is 4'10? Yet none of them are even that height. The closest one is what? 4'9?

Green - That is what you were saying by stating Torres as an example since Torres winning that gold was an important fact. Otherwise she would be another athlete who tried, but did not succeed.

2005 Shaun Alexander rushed for 1,880 yards Age 27-28.
2007 Shaun Alexander rushed for 716 yards Age 29-30.

I could do this shit all day. The older you get the chances are you deteriorate as an athlete, 9 out of 10 times this is the outcome.

Also I'm not being defensive and a Chinese person could be Asian-American, thats why I lol'd.
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Posted 8/16/08

axbabe04u wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

I smell jealousy!

I didnt read this thread properly (coz it was so long) so i thought was a hating thread. my apologies to OP.




There's no harm done so I deleted my reply already!

After reading another article, I think the Olympics commitee or whoever was in charge of the gymnastics age qualifications should have been more aware of the situation before misunderstandings or false accusations are made. I think they should also take responsibility for it and even there's no way but assume whether or not there is truth to these allegations, respect should be shown for the Chinese women's gymnastic team for winning the gold medal. Unfortunately, meaningless and disrespectful articles such as the one posted above are available to further cause misunderstandings! Ridiculous!!!

I just hope people realize that they won the gold fairly more than anything else!!! It'll be really sad if the Olympics committee strip them away from their well-deserved gold medals.


Agreed. And did they really take away their gold medals...? O.o
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Posted 8/16/08

ginnie123 wrote:


axbabe04u wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

I smell jealousy!

I didnt read this thread properly (coz it was so long) so i thought was a hating thread. my apologies to OP.




There's no harm done so I deleted my reply already!

After reading another article, I think the Olympics commitee or whoever was in charge of the gymnastics age qualifications should have been more aware of the situation before misunderstandings or false accusations are made. I think they should also take responsibility for it and even there's no way but assume whether or not there is truth to these allegations, respect should be shown for the Chinese women's gymnastic team for winning the gold medal. Unfortunately, meaningless and disrespectful articles such as the one posted above are available to further cause misunderstandings! Ridiculous!!!

I just hope people realize that they won the gold fairly more than anything else!!! It'll be really sad if the Olympics committee strip them away from their well-deserved gold medals.


Agreed. And did they really take away their gold medals...? O.o




Unless proven, the Olympics will not do anything of the sort so no, the medals haven't been taken away from anyone.
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Posted 8/16/08
*no comment*
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Posted 8/16/08 , edited 8/16/08

Incontrovertible wrote:


axbabe04u wrote:


Incontrovertible wrote:


axbabe04u wrote:


Incontrovertible wrote:

Red - Talent and determination is not age based so that comment is basically worthless.

About the talent before age shit. Nadal was practicing tennis by the age of 4 and he didn't turn pro until he was 18. There are still prereqs that should be met no matter how talented or great the athlete.

Asians look younger yes, but not like they're fucking 9-11. There is NO way in hell they should be that tiny. Also this fact tends to play a factor when Asians get older not when they are still trying to hit their first growth spurt.

Also girls hit puberty at like 9 or 12... I forgot the exact age when they "should" hit it.

The age factor is a big issue because it determines the athletes bodily maturity. Its a lot easier to spin and do flips when you're 10 than when you're 16-17.

Just because someone is older doesn't make it easier for them. Thats like saying when Pete Sampras was 30 he should be able to beat a 24 year old Federer because hes older.

Patrick Ryan's views are soooo on point.

Just a random question, but are you Chinese?





Um, to answer your first question...no, I'm not Chinese but Asian-American. You know what? You are fine with your opinion, good for you but respect mine, too. Without being defensive, it IS possible to be that tiny at 16. Why not?! People have different body types and it grows differently with each individuals especially those in sports such as gymnastics. I'm not questioning that...it's true fact!

First of all, the girls are not 10...they are infact between 15-20 so the comparison you made between a 10 year old to a 16-17 is not really something to argue about. As far as when puberty hits, you are definitely wrong because it's different with each individual. From experience, I hit puberty at 13 while I know people who have at 14-15 and we turned out pretty normal.

In addition, I never questioned age and whether or not their athleticism is better than the other. I agree with you, age has nothing to do with how athletic someone is! I've actually opposed that argument with a user on Youtube where his believed that the younger you are, the better of an athlete. That's biased and rather wrong because for example, swimmer Torres is 41 year old and still managed to win gold against those who were younger than her.


That made me lol a little bit, the red part that is.

Why can't they be that tiny? I believe I just stated the reasons earlier. The girls are supposedly 16. I don't know any girls who are at the tallest what? 4'7? For a 16 year old? Thats complete and utter crap EVEN if they are Asian.

Even if it was possible to have a whole team of little kids is quite unbelievable for all of them to be 16.

Blue - So the article link that was posted earlier was complete bullshit?

Athleticism and talent are two different words. I said talent has no age barriers not athleticism.

Also being younger has advantages and it normally DOES make you a better athlete, its not biased or wrong. Torres may have won at 41 years old, but how many times can she repeat that? Being younger gives you a chance to become faster and stronger while you're body is still able to keep up rather than having an aging body.

Its like comparing Chicago Bull's Michael Jordan to the Wizard's Michael Jordan.





Okay, again and not to act so defensive.

You're red remark. Is it really that 'lol'? It's true that I'm not Chinese but I am Asian-American. I don't believe it matters whether or not I give out my nationality or if it even has any importance in the first place.

Your blue remark. What article? Any of the few article links I've given out are not written by me; therefore, I'm not quite sure where you're getting at. To answer your question anyway, yes, I believe that article I gave out in the very first page is very biased, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.

Also, I definitely did not say that being older always has a better advantage over the younger athletes. Simply, what I was trying to say was being younger or being older doesn't entirely mean one is better than the other at all extent. Yes, the older athlete may not be able to compete with the younger athlete in a (swimming) relay after another relay but it IS possible. I'm not measuring it by how many golds an older athlete can accomplish against a younger athlete either since that's beside the point. Understood? And you're saying the obvious with being young gives you room to become better and stronger.

In addtion, yes, (atleast some) talent is what an athlete may need to accomplish in an event or sport so the 'two words' are related to each other and it's common sense to figure out that they are two different words with slightly different meanings. "Talent has no age barriers but athleticism does." I got it. But just because the body gets old doesn't mean they'll deteriorate right away! Other than my Torres example, what I had in mind was comparing two people only within a few (2-3) years difference.

Oh, I actually know some who are 4'10-5'1 that are between the ages of 15-24 and they could all pass being 12-18 because they are so tiny!



----------------------------------------



Okay wait, I'm actually quite confused at what you're trying to say now so I had to reread everything.

You're argument is...

Talent has no age barrier but athleticism does

"The age factor is a big issue because it determines the athletes bodily maturity. Its a lot easier to spin and do flips when you're 10 than when you're 16-17."

You're saying the younger the better talent and better athleticism but the athletism by 16 is not greater (than before) while the talent would continue to improve over the years. Of course with training builds athletism and even so, the body tends to get old anyway and that's a given but the rate may vary with each individual. For example, if an athelte continue to physically train over the years, he or she would still have the chance of being as good or better than the younger athletes--my example, Torres. So my point is that it IS possible for an athletic who IS older with the right amount of training to still beat a younger competitor.

Anyway, I am not dissagreeing with your talent has no barrier but athleticism does but I'm also trying to point out what I'm meant all along...whether it makes sense or not is up to you!



http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Sigh. Talent does not improve okay? Its either there or its not. Its the skill that improves. Talent is the natural ability to do that skill.

I'm going to give you the definitions of the words.

Talent - a special natural ability or aptitude

Athleticism - of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training.

I was saying when you're younger, you tend to be of a lighter weight and smaller build THEREFORE its easier to spin in the air. I said nothing having more skill or athleticism.

A 2-3 age difference in the 18+ really makes no difference until its past 28 or so. Its when the body is still maturing that a 2-3 year difference actually DOES matter. Any guy or girl who is generally 12-13 will be different in size and weight at 15-16.

So the smallest person you know is 4'10? Yet none of them are even that height. The closest one is what? 4'9?

Green - That is what you were saying by stating Torres as an example since Torres winning that gold was an important fact. Otherwise she would be another athlete who tried, but did not succeed.

2005 Shaun Alexander rushed for 1,880 yards Age 27-28.
2007 Shaun Alexander rushed for 716 yards Age 29-30.

I could do this shit all day. The older you get the chances are you deteriorate as an athlete, 9 out of 10 times this is the outcome.

Also I'm not being defensive and a Chinese person could be Asian-American, thats why I lol'd.







I will use experience to prove talent, skill, athleticism in my perspective.

Since the age of 7-8, I've always been fascinated by basketball and by 10, it became one of my passion. In 7th grade, I tried out for the team without any knowledge of how the game is really played (except I knew some very little basics like shooting a basket is a score) and only listened to what the coaches tell me to do. After 2 weeks of tryouts, I made the A1 team (teams consisted of A, B, C level 1 or 2) and that was quite an accomplishment for me especially since I had no clue what I was doing except to listen for instructions. When the coach told me to drive down the lane for a layup, I did it with the skill that I learned in that short amount of time. With the proper instruction, I learned the proper skill which later made me a better basketball player. It wasn't until I proved myself through practice and that first few games whether or not I have the talent to play basketball. Did I? Well, I know I tried my best and that's what counts and I continued to practice everyday for a certain amount of time especially with shooting the basket. Eventually, my skill greatly improved throughout that basketball season and summer came where, on my own, I practiced some more. When 8th grade came, the coaches saw more improvement that they acknowledged my skills and again, put me on the A1 team. The question is, when do you measure talent? Have I always been naturally talented in basketball? Or was it due to my determination and the right practice that improved my skill which eventually measured my talent?

Oh please, let's avoid trying to point exact measurements--to state the obvious, 4'9 and 4'10 are still relatively almost the same height. The fact that I do know people who are at those height and happen to be older than these Chinese team proves my point--and with age, surely these people who are 4'10 now atleast grew atleast an inch between the ages of 12 to now. In addition, my point is simply not by how many gold an athlete receive but whether or not it is possible to compete despite age. I still stand by my points--I don't disagree with you that people do get older and for most, their body do get old in the same rate/with age but you can't possibly assume that everyone's talent/athleticism/skill (whatever!) detoriate at the same rate/level.

And yes, Chinese is Asian, therefore, they may consider themselves Asian-American as well. I didn't highlight or point out my exact Asian ethnicity because I didn't believe there was any importance or am I ashamed of it but if you must really know, I'm Filipina.
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Posted 8/19/08
there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)
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Posted 8/19/08 , edited 8/19/08
If they have the ability and talent, why not let them be in the competition? :o
Lying about age is not right though...-.-
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THE FUTURE
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Posted 8/19/08
The article is just written by sore losers who can't stand the thought of little loli girls giving them an anal plunging of hell.
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Posted 8/19/08
I was actually astounded on how young they look. Of course it could just be delayed puberty because of heavy training, however there have been some people who say that at other previous gymnastic meets their ages were different.
There is a definate advantage to being younger as a gymnest that fades after puberty. Lighter bodies, lower centers of gravity, and more future potential Olympics. I think it is a serious concern that hasn't been looked into enough. Call me a hater but these games should be fair and even, and this years womans gymnastics have been anything but.
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Posted 8/19/08
Pft.

That can't be true. China isn't stupid that's all I can say.
And a lot of Asian women look younger than what their age states, especially the Oriental ones.
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Posted 8/19/08 , edited 8/19/08

colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past
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Posted 8/20/08

Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past


that China has done so much what? the fact tht they usually don't wear makeup might be the reason why the hv such baby faces it could also be genetics. and the fact that they look so small is b/c they do hv a weight requirement. they've probably been haviing a special diet since they were little so maybe thats why there hasn't been much of a growth spurt and since its not healthy doing that maybe that's why that girl lost that tooth
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Posted 8/20/08

colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past


that China has done so much what? the fact tht they usually don't wear makeup might be the reason why the hv such baby faces it could also be genetics. and the fact that they look so small is b/c they do hv a weight requirement. they've probably been haviing a special diet since they were little so maybe thats why there hasn't been much of a growth spurt and since its not healthy doing that maybe that's why that girl lost that tooth


the girls have been in competitions and the ages given were YOUNGER THEN THE OLYMPIC RULES!!!
read this article is show that in 2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
so is China did China lie then or now?
and the fact that it was not fully investigated is insane its not far to all the other Nations and especially the Chinese Girls if China did fake the passports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
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Posted 8/20/08

Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past


that China has done so much what? the fact tht they usually don't wear makeup might be the reason why the hv such baby faces it could also be genetics. and the fact that they look so small is b/c they do hv a weight requirement. they've probably been haviing a special diet since they were little so maybe thats why there hasn't been much of a growth spurt and since its not healthy doing that maybe that's why that girl lost that tooth


the girls have been in competitions and the ages given were YOUNGER THEN THE OLYMPIC RULES!!!
read this article is show that in 2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
so is China did China lie then or now?
and the fact that it was not fully investigated is insane its not far to all the other Nations and especially the Chinese Girls if China did fake the passports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


dude wait ok just calm down ok their passports were validated ppl r trying to find real proof that those girls are underage and when they do (unless of course they really are 15-16) theyll disqualify them and take away their medals...what more could you possibly ask for?

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