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YOUR RESPONSE: Olympics Women's Gymnastics - China Too Under-aged?
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28 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 8/20/08

colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past


that China has done so much what? the fact tht they usually don't wear makeup might be the reason why the hv such baby faces it could also be genetics. and the fact that they look so small is b/c they do hv a weight requirement. they've probably been haviing a special diet since they were little so maybe thats why there hasn't been much of a growth spurt and since its not healthy doing that maybe that's why that girl lost that tooth


the girls have been in competitions and the ages given were YOUNGER THEN THE OLYMPIC RULES!!!
read this article is show that in 2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
so is China did China lie then or now?
and the fact that it was not fully investigated is insane its not far to all the other Nations and especially the Chinese Girls if China did fake the passports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


dude wait ok just calm down ok their passports were validated ppl r trying to find real proof that those girls are underage and when they do (unless of course they really are 15-16) theyll disqualify them and take away their medals...what more could you possibly ask for?



the problem is they are not looking in to it. and passports can easily be faked since its issued by the government. if there was an investigation going on i would care as much but they just dropped it with out a second thought.
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21 / F / puerto rico
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Posted 8/20/08

Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


colorkou wrote:

there is an age requirement in the rules. everyone should follow them and i think everyone is following them. just b/c the girls look short, it doesn't mean that they're lying about their age, and if they were, and someone had hardcore proof about it, those medals would be off those pretty little girls' neck in less than a second so really people r just SORE LOSERS(not even the usa gymnastics team complained why should other people?)


its not just the hight but the entire appearance. plus in other events the ages given were younger so ether they lied then or are now. the fact that it wasnt investigated more is wrong given that China has done so in the past


that China has done so much what? the fact tht they usually don't wear makeup might be the reason why the hv such baby faces it could also be genetics. and the fact that they look so small is b/c they do hv a weight requirement. they've probably been haviing a special diet since they were little so maybe thats why there hasn't been much of a growth spurt and since its not healthy doing that maybe that's why that girl lost that tooth


the girls have been in competitions and the ages given were YOUNGER THEN THE OLYMPIC RULES!!!
read this article is show that in 2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
so is China did China lie then or now?
and the fact that it was not fully investigated is insane its not far to all the other Nations and especially the Chinese Girls if China did fake the passports.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


dude wait ok just calm down ok their passports were validated ppl r trying to find real proof that those girls are underage and when they do (unless of course they really are 15-16) theyll disqualify them and take away their medals...what more could you possibly ask for?



the problem is they are not looking in to it. and passports can easily be faked since its issued by the government. if there was an investigation going on i would care as much but they just dropped it with out a second thought.


everyone wil find out the truth someday honestly i dont really care anymore everyone tgalks about it so much that it makes me wanna barf now just like when sharon stone said what she said about the earthquake in china or how peopl have prejudice agaisnt puerto ricans commenting on stuf doesnt help the cause or change anything unless u got a poster and started protesting lol peace out
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28 / F / With the one I lo...
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Posted 8/20/08
cnn...tsk tsk
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21 / F / Hong Kong
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Posted 8/20/08
There's nothing wrong with their age!
The Olympic Committee thinks it's okay so there should be no problem about it.
The US is just trying to blame China for their loss.
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21 / M / OuO
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Posted 8/20/08
There is absolutely nothing wrong with their age.
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21 / F
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Posted 8/20/08
Actually, their training make them shorter.
They are probably not that underage...

But heh, who knows.

Important is, they have the talent that exceeds 16 year olds.
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25 / M / WA
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Posted 8/20/08 , edited 8/20/08

axbabe04u wrote:

If you follow the Olympic's Gymnastic, I'm sure you've heard issues regarding the age China's women's gymnastics team. If you don't the article below will give you an insight.







--------------------------------------------------------





Chinese gymnasts shine, but black cloud hovers over gold medal


BEIJING -- The night before the showdown with the Chinese, the U.S. women's gymnastics team gathered in Shawn Johnson and Nastia Liukin's room in the Olympic Village and watched the movie Miracle, which tells the story of the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team's miraculous gold medal run.

It was supposed to get them into a we-can-do-anything mode. And for a while it seemed to work. The U.S. came out Wednesday morning and took an early lead over the favored Chinese in the first apparatus of the team finals by more than half a point, with Bridget Sloan, Alicia Sacramone, and Johnson all landing good, clean vaults.

They followed that up with three good routines on the uneven bars: Chellsie Memmel starting it off with a solid 15.725, Johnson following with a steady 15.350, then Liukin reeling off a stunning 16.90. The Americans were six for six in hitting their routines, and the pressure fell squarely on the backs of the young Chinese.

And we do mean young. Their passports are issued by a Chinese government that is very, very interested in winning lots and lots of gold medals, so while they may say they're 15 or 16, five of the six team members have the appearance of pre-pubescent children. "The little babies," coach Martha Karolyi refers to the Chinese gymnasts when speaking to her team, and she does mean 'little.' Li Shanshan (16) is 4-foot-9, 79 pounds. Yilin Yang (15) is 4-foot-11, 77 pounds. He Kexin (16) is 4-foot-8, 73 pounds. Yuyuan Jiang (16) is 4-foot-7, 71 (!) pounds. But the prize goes to Deng Linlin (16), who's listed at 4-foot-6 and a strapping 68 pounds. She could take a nap in Yao Ming's sneaker. Poor thing's also missing a tooth. Please, someone send baby food.

But can they ever fly from the uneven bars! The baby-faced trio of Jiang, Yang, and He looked like little acrobats, whirling around the bars like spider monkeys, switching hand holds, spinning backwards, flipping left and right. After Jiang's 15.975, Yang put up a roof-raising 16.80 which was then trumped by He's 16.85. The resulting total of 49.625 put the Chinese ahead of the Americans by a solid 1.125 points with only two rotations left.

It didn't look good, but Cheng Fei, the one member of the Chinese team who competed four years ago in Athens, gave the U.S. hope when she fell off early in her beam routine and scored just 15.15. Li and the tiny Deng, though, followed that up with strong beam routines, leaving the Americans with no room for error.

Sacramone, 20, first up for the Americans, made short work of the suspense, falling as she tried a front pike mount off a springboard onto the beam. Afterwards Karloyi explained that Sacramone had lost her focus after twice being forced to wait by beam officials after her name had been announced.

"They put her name up with a stop sign," an animated Karolyi said. "She couldn't go once, she couldn't go twice, and in my opinion it was intentional. Alicia's a little bit too emotional. I told her, 'they tried to break your focus, and you let them do it.'"

Long delays while the judges deliberate are not uncommon in gymnastics, and in any event, the gymnasts are supposed to handled any eventuality, regardless of the situation. Liukin and Johnson, dependable as ever, followed Sacramone's 15.10 routine with two great beam performances, scoring 15.975 and 16.175, respectively, to enable the Americans to narrow the gap slightly on the Chinese. So with the floor event remaining, the U.S. trailed the host country by exactly one point.

It wasn't a good situation to be in, since the Chinese had outscored the U.S. in the floor during the preliminaries. But it certainly wasn't an impossible deficit to overcome. Sacramone, who was the team captain and the team's spiritual leader, again was first up. But she hadn't put the fall off the beam completely behind her, and again she committed a fatal gaffe, under-rotating an Arabian on her second tumbling pass and falling backwards. "I don't know what happened on floor," she said afterwards, fighting back tears. "I thought my feet were under me on that Arabian, and the next thing I knew I was on my back."

She stepped out of bounds on her final pass, but the damage had already been done. Sacramone's 14.125 on floor sealed the deal on any realistic hopes of a comeback. Liukin and Johnson also stepped out during their otherwise solid floor routines, but those small deductions only mattered in determining the final margin of the Chinese victory. Afterwards, in a touching moment, Johnson slipped her arm through Sacramone's and lay a consoling head on her shoulder. Then she said something that made Sacramone laugh, no small trick at that juncture.

"Usually it's Alicia who's keeping everyone else up," Liukin said. "So it was kind of different for us to be doing it to her this time. She kept telling us she was sorry, so sorry, but we still love her. And we still have a silver medal, which is great. China had fewer mistakes than we did. It was their day to shine."

And shine they did, the little pixies, to the delight of the 19,000-some pro-Chinese crowd that packed the National Indoor Stadium, roaring at every tumbling pass of the final three Chinese gymnasts. The final margin of victory over the U.S. was a comfortable 2.375 points, 188.90 to 186.525. The bronze went to Romania, which scored 181.525.

So the Chinese women have their first-ever Olympic team gold medal. Good for them. But their prize will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion -- prior to these Games, several publications, most notably the New York Times, found evidence that at least two of the Chinese gymnasts were only 14, two years younger than the Olympic minimum -- and to some extent the image of gymnastics has suffered a black eye. The Olympics is, above all else, based on the principles of fair competition, and the promotion of healthy bodies through sport. There is something mildly discomfiting about the sight of such tiny youngsters weighed down by the hopes of a nation, even after the gold medals are hanging around their feathery necks.


Source:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/writers/em_swift/08/13/china.us/?eref=sircrc






My Response:


Why is there issue about these Chinese women's gymnastic team and their age? Are those who seem to have a problem with it only intimidated by it? I always believed that one should be measured by their talents first despite their age. China's gymnastics is practiced when these kids were at the age of 3-4 so they are likely more than qualified by the age of 14-15.

Those girls have done a great job managing their team througout the Olympic competitions and they well-deserved the gold medal and that is despite their age! In a way, you could say that USA (from age 16-20) were beaten by a team that were atleast 2 years younger then ALL of them. Doesn't that sound worst?

Being an Olympic and a gymnastics fan, I am quite offended by this inconsiderate, disrespectful, and a bit biased article towards the Chinese womens gymnastic's team. China won the gold fairly and it was clearly USA's major mistakes that deserved them the silver, respectively!

In addition, wouldn't most of you agree that Asian's tend to look younger than the average person? Of course, this doesn't apply for everyone but generally, it is believed so. There are other articles that says they have proven that atleast 3-4 of the Chinese women's gymnastics team are underaged which contradicts with the Olympics age qualifications but the passports of these girls stated they were 16. Other than Cheng Fei (20), I instantly believed that the other girls seemed too young to be 16 but that notion dissappeared after I saw how talented and determined they were in what (one of the things) they do best, gymnastics.

Avoiding over-analyzing defining how a 16-year-old should look like or act, I watched how this Chinese team handled pressure against USA and how they managed to stay on top with such ease during the pre-eliminary rounds. Whether or not the ages in the passports were fabricated or not, Olympians should be measured by their talents and not by their age. Ultimately, the Chinese women's Olympic gymnastic team accomplished and well-deserved the gold and they did it with passion.

Many also question China's human rights towards the idea of 3-4 year old's elite training that are equivalently taught by the age of 10-12 in the US and other parts of the world. I agree at some level but it definitely paid off this Olympic year!!! Many would also agree that both the men and the women's Chinese gymnastics team should receive the respect and recognition that they deserve without biased or prejudice!




* I've responded to the writer of the article...


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Personally, I don't expect a reply from the article's writer but I surely hope he acknowledges my response to his article!



What are your thoughts? Share them!!!







Just in response. It has nothing to do with the fact that a younger person beat an older person, but more or less that they are under the legal age set by the world gymanastics organization and therefore not allowed to compete. Its so simple.

Also, there have been complaints about judges over scoring Chinese gymnasts.
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Posted 8/20/08
America fails man.
Maybe its just the way us Americans are raised.
All we know is-our way and only that.
We fail, we bitch.
We don't have it our way, we complain.
We fuck shit up, we sue.
We lose, we say we were jipped.
People are better than us, we talk shit.
People surpass us, we claim its bullshit.
People beat us, we say they cheated
People work harder than us? Most likely.
We do anything other than win first? We cry.
Why? Why do we continue to be so full of ourselves?
Can we not realize that times change? That America is falling?
Yeah we're good here and there, but we are not gods.
We lose, and that is something America has never learned.
America has never learned to lose. And thats some immature shit.

OMG WE LOST? WHY? WE GOT JIPPED. THEY CHEATED.
Yep-sounds like just about everybody to me.
Can't accept it? You know its true-It's the sad truth.
OMG SILVER? WHY? I wanted gold!
Shit be happy.
Some countries don't even get to compete. Some never win.
When America wins like anything other than gold, we cry.
We get depressed. We complain. We say it wasn't fair.
We blame. We point fingers. Thats all we can do.
Omg, the judges are biased! Omg, they're using 12 year old girls!
Umm, who gives a fuck? Lets be real.
They're better than us. Period. End of story.
And since we lose in little shit like that. We choose a scapegoat.
We search, we dig up shit, we aren't satisfied with our loss.
And we try to blame, try to accuse. we say shit like
shes 12 years old, she shouldn't be competing!
Yeah.. maybe shes just better than you-so cry more.


Its funny. Viewers complains more than the actual athletes.
Afterall, who the fuck are you? Do you even matter?
You're out here pointing fingers and talking shit?
You're not even out there and nor will you ever be. That's WSUP.
I mean, the athletes are the ones losing, not the common people.
Why are you complaining?
What are we kids? Shit, thats what it looks like.
Grow the fuck up and deal wit it. You don't always get what you want.
The least you can do is understand that life ain't fair.
It'll never be fair, and at least accept it. Or you wont get anywhere.
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Posted 8/20/08 , edited 8/20/08



Just in response. It has nothing to do with the fact that a younger person beat an older person, but more or less that they are under the legal age set by the world gymanastics organization and therefore not allowed to compete. Its so simple.

Also, there have been complaints about judges over scoring Chinese gymnasts.






It's unproven that the girls are infact 'too young' so I'll just leave it to that.

As for the judges, their judging is always subjective so there's nothing much to say. One even had to defend herself and her country recently and it's sad because when some expected a certain gymnist to come out with the gold and when that doesn't happen, they complained and blamed the judging. Another thing, some have accused the judges of not having enough experience to judge but why is that an issue now? The lady judge who was accused recently but rightfully defended herself have been affliated with gymnastics and judged for 20 years.



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28 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 8/20/08 , edited 8/20/08

axbabe04u wrote:




Just in response. It has nothing to do with the fact that a younger person beat an older person, but more or less that they are under the legal age set by the world gymanastics organization and therefore not allowed to compete. Its so simple.

Also, there have been complaints about judges over scoring Chinese gymnasts.






It's unproven that the girls are infact 'too young' so I'll just leave it to that.

As for the judges, their judging is always subjective so there's nothing much to say. One even had to defend herself and her country recently and it's sad because when some expected a certain gymnist to come out with the gold and when that doesn't happen, they complained and blamed the judging. Another thing, some have accused the judges of not having enough experience to judge but why is that an issue now? The lady judge who was accused recently but rightfully defended herself have been affliated with gymnastics and judged for 20 years.




but its that it was not properly investigated and being 2-3 years younger in in this sport is a HUGE advantage since the body naturally more flexible be for puberty. and the big problem is that in 2007 the ages given of these girls are different then what was given for the Olympics

2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

as for the judging i didnt see any real issues with it. i think that the scores were higher then they should be but thats for every one not just one nation
this is even worst for those girls since its they have dont nothing wrong then it is the other nations
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28 / F / USA
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Posted 8/20/08 , edited 8/20/08
To not be so rude, but there's previous post speculating the same thing already in this thread.

I'll remain optimistic with this situation and just enjoy the remaining Olympics.
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21 / M / Terra
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Posted 8/20/08
losers always complains.....
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20 / M / earth
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Posted 8/20/08
don't even care i think that well my mind is to complex for u guys and girls to understand my theory so i won't say the truth
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Posted 8/21/08 , edited 8/21/08

Sleepneeded127 wrote:

but its that it was not properly investigated and being 2-3 years younger in in this sport is a HUGE advantage since the body naturally more flexible be for puberty. and the big problem is that in 2007 the ages given of these girls are different then what was given for the Olympics

2007 the ages given are He Kexin 13(Jan. 1, 1994,) Yang Yilin 14(Aug. 26, 1993,) Jiang Yuyuan 14(Oct. 1, 1993)
when to compete in the games one would need to be born in 1992!!
so was China has give two different dates of birth for each of them.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


as for the judging i didnt see any real issues with it. i think that the scores were higher then they should be but thats for every one not just one nation
this is even worst for those girls since its they have dont nothing wrong then it is the other nations


Still, I don't trust those Yahoo guys anymore since they all seem to hate China... (I'm a gmail person, so I don't check yahoo that often... the two times I did this week, the first front page article was about how Yao Ming needs to leave China and the second was about how Liukin was robbed of his medal by China)...

So far, the only "evidence" is an online search by someone called Stryder...who doesn't know Chinese yet claims a Chinese article stated that she was 13. Then, I went to see the "proof," it's a screenshot of google translations that boasts of the translations of the document. Yet the screenshot doesn't show a screenshot of the document, or the search results on Baidu, which, even if it the document was removed, should've still been there. Instead, it's simply the words He Kexin, a birthdate, and a city name. Anyone could've typed that on Google Translations.

I can totally go on google translations right now, type in Shawn Johnson and a random birthday and Des Moines, Iowa, put it on Chinese translations, and put a screenshot of Google Translations in China. Soon, there'll be news all over China about how Shawn Johnson faked her age.... hopefully, the Chinese won't believe in such flimsy evidence.

Also, for the age/puberty issue... Chinese gymnasts/divers are generally a lot smaller because they have strict diets to restrict their growing. For example, Chen Ruolin (diver, 16) skipped dinner for a year to reduce the growth during puberty.
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Posted 8/22/08

artgeek707 wrote:

I was actually astounded on how young they look. Of course it could just be delayed puberty because of heavy training, however there have been some people who say that at other previous gymnastic meets their ages were different.
There is a definate advantage to being younger as a gymnest that fades after puberty. Lighter bodies, lower centers of gravity, and more future potential Olympics. I think it is a serious concern that hasn't been looked into enough. Call me a hater but these games should be fair and even, and this years womans gymnastics have been anything but.




Yes, there IS an advantage for someone being younger but who are we to judge the Chinese for being relatively smaller than their competitors? First of all, most need to consider that Asians tend to look younger and are smaller than the average person or in this case, their gymnastic competitors...mainly most non-Asian gymnists. In addition, most need to research more on past Asian gymnist and compare their body type to Asian gymnist nowadays and likely, they will notice that Asian gymnists are techinically smaller than non-Asian gymnists--I've posted an interview with 1996 Gold Medalist gymnist, Dominique Dawes stating the same perspective (Page 16). Infact, the Japanese gymnastics team this year is also as small as the Chinese but that's not an issue...maybe they needed to win a medal to be an issue. Biased for me to say? Yes, but at this point, it seems to be true.

People also need to consider the hardwork and effort that these Chinese gymnastic team had to go through to get where they are now. Yes, they ARE smaller than their competitors but that comes with their diets and training. That's nothing new for them and it's rather wrong to justify your point regarding body type. There's no body requirement, weight, or height to be an Olympic gymnist and surely, all gymnist know this fact. Because it is a fact that being lighter (therefore, slimmer) has a better advantage, it's all fair game! All countries are allowed to limit their gymnist's training so they don't bulk up, so why point fingers at the Chinese when their body type can't be helped? They don't have to bulked up like their competitors either and I'm not justifying my point by stating that being lighter and slimmer will automatically make someone a better gymnists either.

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