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Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

nathan_sexplosion wrote:

hahahahahaha i remember anticipating the last episodes so much and then i saw the last two episodes and was like
hahahahahaha. i got what they were going for. that shinji needed to love and except himself and same goes for all the others but man i was pretty mad. it was so anti climactic. but i think it's funny now


they ran out of money
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

ds0192234 wrote:


nathan_sexplosion wrote:

hahahahahaha i remember anticipating the last episodes so much and then i saw the last two episodes and was like
hahahahahaha. i got what they were going for. that shinji needed to love and except himself and same goes for all the others but man i was pretty mad. it was so anti climactic. but i think it's funny now


they ran out of money


to this date. i still haven't seen end of evangelion movie so i still don't know what happens on the outside
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

nathan_sexplosion wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:


nathan_sexplosion wrote:

hahahahahaha i remember anticipating the last episodes so much and then i saw the last two episodes and was like
hahahahahaha. i got what they were going for. that shinji needed to love and except himself and same goes for all the others but man i was pretty mad. it was so anti climactic. but i think it's funny now


they ran out of money


to this date. i still haven't seen end of evangelion movie so i still don't know what happens on the outside


um... just at that time, i guess we better wait for the movies
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

uberdan wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:


uberdan wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:


uberdan wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:

improve the quality, but really, i had no complaints about the story.


Yeah I agree.


you gotta understand, i LOVE the characters in eva (especially shinji), they were complex and deep, pathetic and imperfect.

i really could care less about the robots, i'm not interested in the technology


Ok. I understand. I am a half-way thecno-nerd and I care more about features, violence,stuff; and looks rather than characters and storyline. If I ever post an idea for sequel or improvements; unless you are a big Postal 2 and/or mouse fan, you probably won't agree much with me. I am not trying to be mean, but it is just a heads up.


it's fine... i just like posting fail pics



I kind of like them too. I thought they were funny and a great criticism. Don't worry you really can't piss me off, because I am one few people who can just laughs insults off.



ok
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

uberdan wrote:


walo009 wrote:


uberdan wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:


uberdan wrote:

If they ever made a sequel, these would be my suggestions:
1. Start with the beginning similar to Half-life 2 and Misato helps Shinji escape.
2. Shinji is 18
3. Shinji has a MP3 player and ditches the stupid tapes.
3. New pilots: One should be like Rushuna from Grenadier, one Like Mimet, and one be an android.
4. Injectable powers like in Bioshock. One for lightning, and one for invisibilitly, etc.
5. Combo attacks. Like Lightning shurikens.
6. Ninja weapons for the mechas
7. Light sabers or plasma swords.
8. Cockpit is based off your motion, not buttons and levers. The android just plugs itself in.
9. DBZ, Naruto, or Soul Calibur accidentally gets programed in to the Mechas. Super killer robot ahh!!!!!
10. Have an episode where The pilots grow really big to fight the angels. The android get reprogrammed in to a giant body.
11. Let Nerve have competition form some other organization with similar weapons.
12. Buzz saw
13. anti AT flied EMP bomb
14 Boomerang wrench that shoot lightning. ( Septerra core)
15 Assault rifle, with shotgun, grenades, napalm bomb, homing missiles, and power bomb luncher (also septerra core.)
16. Sniper crossbow. (half life 2)
17 Shrink ray. Stomp it. (Duke nukem 3D)
18. Freeze ray (Duke nukem 3D)
19.Finally Boomerang scythe ( POSTAL 2)


i didn't bother to read all of it but i assume it's made of fail...



Dude all I did was suggested some changes, if they made a sequel series. I would make those changes if owned the property rights. Also WTF do you mean it is made of fail? Did I make too many suggestions; my suggestions were stupid or both. You know; come on 2015 and no I-pod on wii remote suit. I don’t want to start any Batrachomyomachy, but I want a series that eschews obstufication and for Shinji not be some pity character like Oedipus Rex. With Asuka’s stability Shinji defiantly needs a taser or a gun that lunches prozac in her mouth. I understand that Asuka is a waif but she needs physcotherapy. They should have Asuka dies and Rei is captured by the Chinese or Americans and works for one of them. Make of the other counties pilots like the Jaws guy from the James Bond movies. Finally if you were in charge of making a sequel series to Evangelion what would you do? I am anxious to hear what you would do. Really tell me, I will read the whole and give my personal opinion in a polite way.


lol nice one hahahah i will second that
If i write a seque I'll put misato in my room haahahah lol


I like your style man. I agree with you so much. Dude do you like Postal 2 or Mouse?

Postal 2
Mouse

ive watched mouse but i didn't finish it lol
Well some just said a good plot so let praise not bash the writter cause if the schedule is tight and the budget is tight will you do a good script hahah
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08
Never, and I mean never watch this show drunk. Mine as well push yourself into a brick wall while spinning around in your desk chair. It has the same effect.
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

uberdan wrote:

The mechs so needed completion form other countries. They should do that in a sequel sires. Didn’t the Americans build or repair unit 02? I not hating on Japan or a super patriot, but still that would have been a great plot twist if the Americans just came out of nowhere and attacked the angels. If they had plans why didn’t the Americans try to make one? The Japanese government made their own.


The Americans did try to make one. It was Unit 04, the one that was lost during the test sesion in Nevada. And, I agree. America should have had a more serious effect in the show. Maybe an American Pilot... maybe another boy... maybe... ME!!!
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Posted 2/29/08 , edited 4/21/08

yusukimawini wrote:


uberdan wrote:

The mechs so needed completion form other countries. They should do that in a sequel sires. Didn’t the Americans build or repair unit 02? I not hating on Japan or a super patriot, but still that would have been a great plot twist if the Americans just came out of nowhere and attacked the angels. If they had plans why didn’t the Americans try to make one? The Japanese government made their own.


The Americans did try to make one. It was Unit 04, the one that was lost during the test sesion in Nevada. And, I agree. America should have had a more serious effect in the show. Maybe an American Pilot... maybe another boy... maybe... ME!!!


anno... anno did good. no nitpicking
duh
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08
It's hard to judge this series since it is so ambiguous. The story starts out making sense, but after awhile, the layers of stuff that get added and pulled in are too confusing. The story breaks down from a clear painting to abstract art, and a whole slew of interpretations become plausible.

Lots of psychology. Some people say the angels represent different parts of growing up. If that's the case, the whole idea of mechas and monsters is just an elaborate metaphor for losing the innocence of childhood and maturing into an adult. This interpretation is supported by the ending of the TV series, which reveals to Shinji that his life sucks because he has a childish attitude towards his situation.

There are also the references to Kabbala, which is a cult based on Judaism. Much of the corruption within Nerv is supposedly taken out of Kabbala tradition which also explains the angels' and their purpose of replacing human beings as the supreme lifeforms on Earth. Several issues are raised about the nature of humans... like the belief that we are inherently evil.

Then there's the existentialist notions of loneliness and isolation. The solution to this isolation is the Human Instrumentality Project which Gendo conducts. Oddly, he sets Shinji up with the power to create the new world after the Third Impact ends the current reality.

Anno leads Evangelion into a situation where Shinji is able to make the world however he wants. The possibilities are infinite. In the same way, our interpretations become infinite. Anno puts viewers in Shinji's place, allowing them to create a personal interpretation of the reality of the show and then apply that interpretation to real life.

What it comes to is this: Anno's designed the sci-fi world of Evangelion to become interchangeable with real life's complexities. He has made the world of Angels and Evas real.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08
Neon Genesis Evangelion...I have no other feelings other than awestruck.For an anime like this which was made in 1995,it was pure brilliance.Great graphics,very phsycological and it just never ceases to amaze me...
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08
i love this anime!!!! now if only i could watch it again....
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

ds0192234 wrote:
speilberg wanted the shark to to come out in the begining but it didn't happen. anno wanted a bigger budget and a different ending but it didn't happen.

that doesn't mean the movie and series would have been better if they got what they wanted.

it turned out great


So by this standard, the End of Evangelion was completely unnecessary and did nothing to improve the series. Considering no one fully understood the concept of the Human Instrumentalization Project, and why the last two episodes in the TV series took the convoluted turn they did before watching the movie, it's a stretch to try and compare this to whether or not the shark came out in the beginning of Jaws.

The ending of the End of Evangelion ran into the same problem. It was ambiguous, completely out of line with the rest of the series, and random. And as someone else has mentioned, anti-climactic. Before you try and argue with me, realize I'm not saying the series sucked. To the contrary, I'm saying it was pretty awesome, and it was progressing in this vein -- before the ending fucked it over. The endings to the TV series and the ending to the movie are both contrived, and both raise more questions than they answer. This directly opposes the definition of an ending.


duh wrote:
Then there's the existentialist notions of loneliness and isolation. The solution to this isolation is the Human Instrumentality Project which Gendo conducts. Oddly, he sets Shinji up with the power to create the new world after the Third Impact ends the current reality.

Anno leads Evangelion into a situation where Shinji is able to make the world however he wants. The possibilities are infinite. In the same way, our interpretations become infinite. Anno puts viewers in Shinji's place, allowing them to create a personal interpretation of the reality of the show and then apply that interpretation to real life.

What it comes to is this: Anno's designed the sci-fi world of Evangelion to become interchangeable with real life's complexities. He has made the world of Angels and Evas real.


Gendo tried to set himself up for power (Adam on his hand, etc), but Rei rejected him and went to Shinji (due to half-explained emotional attachments). Also, I don't agree that Anno did anything of the sort purposefully. The dude was clinically depressed while making this anime, and he was trying to express himself through it. You're looking for meaning in the silhouette of the Virgin Mary burnt on toast.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

duh wrote:

It's hard to judge this series since it is so ambiguous. The story starts out making sense, but after awhile, the layers of stuff that get added and pulled in are too confusing. The story breaks down from a clear painting to abstract art, and a whole slew of interpretations become plausible.

Lots of psychology. Some people say the angels represent different parts of growing up. If that's the case, the whole idea of mechas and monsters is just an elaborate metaphor for losing the innocence of childhood and maturing into an adult. This interpretation is supported by the ending of the TV series, which reveals to Shinji that his life sucks because he has a childish attitude towards his situation.

There are also the references to Kabbala, which is a cult based on Judaism. Much of the corruption within Nerv is supposedly taken out of Kabbala tradition which also explains the angels' and their purpose of replacing human beings as the supreme lifeforms on Earth. Several issues are raised about the nature of humans... like the belief that we are inherently evil.

Then there's the existentialist notions of loneliness and isolation. The solution to this isolation is the Human Instrumentality Project which Gendo conducts. Oddly, he sets Shinji up with the power to create the new world after the Third Impact ends the current reality.

Anno leads Evangelion into a situation where Shinji is able to make the world however he wants. The possibilities are infinite. In the same way, our interpretations become infinite. Anno puts viewers in Shinji's place, allowing them to create a personal interpretation of the reality of the show and then apply that interpretation to real life.

What it comes to is this: Anno's designed the sci-fi world of Evangelion to become interchangeable with real life's complexities. He has made the world of Angels and Evas real.


That was my personal problem with the whole series: murky ambigious meanings and obvious attempts to shove these meanings into your face.
Personally I applaud it as a great series because it attempted to go beyond the standard plot-based action series that many people identify with anime. It actually had underlying currents of meaning and attempts to address questions more profound than "Will our hero become Hokage???"

However, it tries to fit too much meaning into the actions of its characters. Any work of literature (books, manga, etc.) must be essentially two-faced. There is the basic plot, and then there is the underlying meaning. Sometimes they crossed over each other too much.

Second, I felt like the creator was bashing my head in with a metaphorical hammer of meaning. Everything that happened seemed to point to some great . All the characters had great emotional problems or existential worries or serious issues. There are great examples of cheesy dialogue throughout the series that are supposed to be profound. Existential undertones are supposed to be undertones, not immediately noticeable.

If Neon Genesis Evangelion is like this interpretation, then it explains my first fault. Too much c*** is attempted to be shoved into everything, and it takes away from the story as a series of continuous events.

Yet, they are only faults specific to the work. A lot of anime and manga have way bigger problems than these. On the whole, it was an admirable step forward.


duh
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

leviathan343 wrote:

That was my personal problem with the whole series: murky ambigious meanings and obvious attempts to shove these meanings into your face.
Personally I applaud it as a great series because it attempted to go beyond the standard plot-based action series that many people identify with anime. It actually had underlying currents of meaning and attempts to address questions more profound than "Will our hero become Hokage???"

However, it tries to fit too much meaning into the actions of its characters. Any work of literature (books, manga, etc.) must be essentially two-faced. There is the basic plot, and then there is the underlying meaning. Sometimes they crossed over each other too much.

Second, I felt like the creator was bashing my head in with a metaphorical hammer of meaning. Everything that happened seemed to point to some great . All the characters had great emotional problems or existential worries or serious issues. There are great examples of cheesy dialogue throughout the series that are supposed to be profound. Existential undertones are supposed to be undertones, not immediately noticeable.

If Neon Genesis Evangelion is like this interpretation, then it explains my first fault. Too much c*** is attempted to be shoved into everything, and it takes away from the story as a series of continuous events.

Yet, they are only faults specific to the work. A lot of anime and manga have way bigger problems than these. On the whole, it was an admirable step forward.


I think I agree with you that it's too murky and crammed full of stuff. However I also think it was done on purpose. That's not to say that it was a great idea, but I think this was a really personal work for the creator, a catharsis of sorts. He wasn't too concerned with producing something that qualifies as art, or that delicately handles existential undertones in a palatable way. He was trying to portray the over-wrought, over-dramatic, biochemically erratic state of mind of teenage Shinji. There are plenty of passionate people whose world is like this, while more rational people cock their head and ask "what's the big deal?" Rather than comment on that chaos, I think Evangelion simply recreates it.

I'm a Christian, so I believe Christianity is a system that brings unity to all the seemingly unrelated aspects and conflicts of life. However, to understand it takes an enormous amount of study. Many so-called Christians commit horrors due to a poor understanding of things. Evangelion is clearly not Christian, and probably subscribes to the belief that the only meaning there is in life is that which you give it. Shinji's problem is that he doesn't give his life meaning, so by default, chaos and a plethora of contrary meanings collide in his world.

All that said, it's still a matter of taste. Perhaps Eva is just too raw to be real art. Maybe it's more like "creative photojournalism" in a troubled mind. For that reason, I can only take it for what it is and I've become rather neutral. I'm not sure whether I really like it or not.

Thanks for commenting! Now this is a real forum.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

DKangN3 wrote:


ds0192234 wrote:
speilberg wanted the shark to to come out in the begining but it didn't happen. anno wanted a bigger budget and a different ending but it didn't happen.

that doesn't mean the movie and series would have been better if they got what they wanted.

it turned out great


So by this standard, the End of Evangelion was completely unnecessary and did nothing to improve the series. Considering no one fully understood the concept of the Human Instrumentalization Project, and why the last two episodes in the TV series took the convoluted turn they did before watching the movie, it's a stretch to try and compare this to whether or not the shark came out in the beginning of Jaws.

The ending of the End of Evangelion ran into the same problem. It was ambiguous, completely out of line with the rest of the series, and random. And as someone else has mentioned, anti-climactic. Before you try and argue with me, realize I'm not saying the series sucked. To the contrary, I'm saying it was pretty awesome, and it was progressing in this vein -- before the ending fucked it over. The endings to the TV series and the ending to the movie are both contrived, and both raise more questions than they answer. This directly opposes the definition of an ending.


duh wrote:
Then there's the existentialist notions of loneliness and isolation. The solution to this isolation is the Human Instrumentality Project which Gendo conducts. Oddly, he sets Shinji up with the power to create the new world after the Third Impact ends the current reality.

Anno leads Evangelion into a situation where Shinji is able to make the world however he wants. The possibilities are infinite. In the same way, our interpretations become infinite. Anno puts viewers in Shinji's place, allowing them to create a personal interpretation of the reality of the show and then apply that interpretation to real life.

What it comes to is this: Anno's designed the sci-fi world of Evangelion to become interchangeable with real life's complexities. He has made the world of Angels and Evas real.


Gendo tried to set himself up for power (Adam on his hand, etc), but Rei rejected him and went to Shinji (due to half-explained emotional attachments). Also, I don't agree that Anno did anything of the sort purposefully. The dude was clinically depressed while making this anime, and he was trying to express himself through it. You're looking for meaning in the silhouette of the Virgin Mary burnt on toast.


If it was Rei's decision, that makes more sense. I was referring to the last ep of the TV series. I haven't seen the movies.

Also, you're right about Anno simply expressing his own depression. I'm pretty sure Eva is just a catharsis for the guy. He wants to be understood even though his view of reality is quite skewed by the depression. So the natural thing to do (whether he thought so consciously or not) is recreate the chaos of his own emotions. I can't really say the endings were good or not because that's not the point. I don't think Anno's endings have any meaning on their own. Eva has no tangible message. The point is that once you've seen the series through, you have a better notion of what it is like to be depressed and now you have to come to your own conclusions, discarding some layers and interpreting others. This is the same position Shinji is in and Anno is in. It's something we all have to do: come to grips with our reality, be it a depressed one or a healthy one.

Putting a value judgment on the endings of Eva will only get so far. Yeah, it's anti-climactic, yeah it makes no sense, yeah the story isn't very artfully or skillfully wrapped up. But on the other hand, Eva is such a personal story anyway that it feels more like an experience that just happens than something authored. If you didn't like it, who cares. It was created more for Anno than for you. That's the feeling I get anyway.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

duh wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

That was my personal problem with the whole series: murky ambigious meanings and obvious attempts to shove these meanings into your face.
Personally I applaud it as a great series because it attempted to go beyond the standard plot-based action series that many people identify with anime. It actually had underlying currents of meaning and attempts to address questions more profound than "Will our hero become Hokage???"

However, it tries to fit too much meaning into the actions of its characters. Any work of literature (books, manga, etc.) must be essentially two-faced. There is the basic plot, and then there is the underlying meaning. Sometimes they crossed over each other too much.

Second, I felt like the creator was bashing my head in with a metaphorical hammer of meaning. Everything that happened seemed to point to some great . All the characters had great emotional problems or existential worries or serious issues. There are great examples of cheesy dialogue throughout the series that are supposed to be profound. Existential undertones are supposed to be undertones, not immediately noticeable.

If Neon Genesis Evangelion is like this interpretation, then it explains my first fault. Too much c*** is attempted to be shoved into everything, and it takes away from the story as a series of continuous events.

Yet, they are only faults specific to the work. A lot of anime and manga have way bigger problems than these. On the whole, it was an admirable step forward.


I think I agree with you that it's too murky and crammed full of stuff. However I also think it was done on purpose. That's not to say that it was a great idea, but I think this was a really personal work for the creator, a catharsis of sorts. He wasn't too concerned with producing something that qualifies as art, or that delicately handles existential undertones in a palatable way. He was trying to portray the over-wrought, over-dramatic, biochemically erratic state of mind of teenage Shinji. There are plenty of passionate people whose world is like this, while more rational people cock their head and ask "what's the big deal?" Rather than comment on that chaos, I think Evangelion simply recreates it.

I'm a Christian, so I believe Christianity is a system that brings unity to all the seemingly unrelated aspects and conflicts of life. However, to understand it takes an enormous amount of study. Many so-called Christians commit horrors due to a poor understanding of things. Evangelion is clearly not Christian, and probably subscribes to the belief that the only meaning there is in life is that which you give it. Shinji's problem is that he doesn't give his life meaning, so by default, chaos and a plethora of contrary meanings collide in his world.

All that said, it's still a matter of taste. Perhaps Eva is just too raw to be real art. Maybe it's more like "creative photojournalism" in a troubled mind. For that reason, I can only take it for what it is and I've become rather neutral. I'm not sure whether I really like it or not.

Thanks for commenting! Now this is a real forum.


My problem with Shinji is the position which he plays in the story and the deliberateness of his character. If NGE was based on character insight, then Shinji could be a character in it. However, he is not interesting (to me) because he is essentially a two-dimensional character. Beyond his depression and self-importance and existential faults, I couldn't find anything else that made him an individual. And that made me bored of him, especially when it was constantly being emphasized that he's all f*****-up. To be a memorable character, a reader should have to watch it twice before saying "Wow, he has some serious issues." Which would require Shinji to have some traits everyone can relate to. Worst, he's the main character; he should be interesting enough for the reader to be concerned about his well-being. Instead, I find myself wishing that he had be stomped flat in the first episode.

I have no problem with it as a personal work (for you really cannot judge that sort of thing); I have problems with it as a commercial work that other people will watch like me. I want to understand the issues that he is thinking of; but he puts too much stuff and I can't discern which meaning he wants to convey.

I disagree with the idea that Christians commit crimes because of poor understanding. They commit crimes because they always find exceptions to its creeds or they blatantly ignore its teachings. Most religious crimes do not at all parallel with the religion's core teachings; rather they are exceptions (Crusaders ex. "Christians are supposed to love their enemies, but we can hate Muslims because they're not Christians). Note the end of the example: almost all crimes in the name of religion have this "however, this situation is different" clause.

It's disputable whether being "raw" discounts it as true art. I know that Naruto or Bleach isn't great art (although I had high hopes that the series would become a classic after the Zabuza arc), even though it has been smoothed out for 10-year-old boys who want to be ninjas. Any great anime must disturb the reader on some level, and Neon Genesis Evangelion does make you think.

P.S. Thank you, I try to make forums interesting whenever I can. I think there's a guy named arx7arbalest who is a genius when he talks about anime. He's certainly not what people call a "Narutard". He's much smarter than me about this stuff.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

leviathan343 wrote:

My problem with Shinji is the position which he plays in the story and the deliberateness of his character. If NGE was based on character insight, then Shinji could be a character in it. However, he is not interesting (to me) because he is essentially a two-dimensional character. Beyond his depression and self-importance and existential faults, I couldn't find anything else that made him an individual. And that made me bored of him, especially when it was constantly being emphasized that he's all f*****-up. To be a memorable character, a reader should have to watch it twice before saying "Wow, he has some serious issues." Which would require Shinji to have some traits everyone can relate to. Worst, he's the main character; he should be interesting enough for the reader to be concerned about his well-being. Instead, I find myself wishing that he had be stomped flat in the first episode.

I have no problem with it as a personal work (for you really cannot judge that sort of thing); I have problems with it as a commercial work that other people will watch like me. I want to understand the issues that he is thinking of; but he puts too much stuff and I can't discern which meaning he wants to convey.

I disagree with the idea that Christians commit crimes because of poor understanding. They commit crimes because they always find exceptions to its creeds or they blatantly ignore its teachings. Most religious crimes do not at all parallel with the religion's core teachings; rather they are exceptions (Crusaders ex. "Christians are supposed to love their enemies, but we can hate Muslims because they're not Christians). Note the end of the example: almost all crimes in the name of religion have this "however, this situation is different" clause.

It's disputable whether being "raw" discounts it as true art. I know that Naruto or Bleach isn't great art (although I had high hopes that the series would become a classic after the Zabuza arc), even though it has been smoothed out for 10-year-old boys who want to be ninjas. Any great anime must disturb the reader on some level, and Neon Genesis Evangelion does make you think.

P.S. Thank you, I try to make forums interesting whenever I can. I think there's a guy named arx7arbalest who is a genius when he talks about anime. He's certainly not what people call a "Narutard". He's much smarter than me about this stuff.


Yeah. You're definitely right about it's shortcoming as a commercial work. Isn't it weird how popular it got in spite of that? Seeing as how I like your take on Eva, I won't say anything dissing Naruto wait... wrong emoticon
I'm sure you have some legit reasons for liking it even if they won't cut it for me.
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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

duh wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

My problem with Shinji is the position which he plays in the story and the deliberateness of his character. If NGE was based on character insight, then Shinji could be a character in it. However, he is not interesting (to me) because he is essentially a two-dimensional character. Beyond his depression and self-importance and existential faults, I couldn't find anything else that made him an individual. And that made me bored of him, especially when it was constantly being emphasized that he's all f*****-up. To be a memorable character, a reader should have to watch it twice before saying "Wow, he has some serious issues." Which would require Shinji to have some traits everyone can relate to. Worst, he's the main character; he should be interesting enough for the reader to be concerned about his well-being. Instead, I find myself wishing that he had be stomped flat in the first episode.

I have no problem with it as a personal work (for you really cannot judge that sort of thing); I have problems with it as a commercial work that other people will watch like me. I want to understand the issues that he is thinking of; but he puts too much stuff and I can't discern which meaning he wants to convey.

I disagree with the idea that Christians commit crimes because of poor understanding. They commit crimes because they always find exceptions to its creeds or they blatantly ignore its teachings. Most religious crimes do not at all parallel with the religion's core teachings; rather they are exceptions (Crusaders ex. "Christians are supposed to love their enemies, but we can hate Muslims because they're not Christians). Note the end of the example: almost all crimes in the name of religion have this "however, this situation is different" clause.

It's disputable whether being "raw" discounts it as true art. I know that Naruto or Bleach isn't great art (although I had high hopes that the series would become a classic after the Zabuza arc), even though it has been smoothed out for 10-year-old boys who want to be ninjas. Any great anime must disturb the reader on some level, and Neon Genesis Evangelion does make you think.

P.S. Thank you, I try to make forums interesting whenever I can. I think there's a guy named arx7arbalest who is a genius when he talks about anime. He's certainly not what people call a "Narutard". He's much smarter than me about this stuff.


Yeah. You're definitely right about it's shortcoming as a commercial work. Isn't it weird how popular it got in spite of that? Seeing as how I like your take on Eva, I won't say anything dissing Naruto wait... wrong emoticon
I'm sure you have some legit reasons for liking it even if they won't cut it for me.


What, Naruto or Neon Genesis Evangelion?

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Posted 3/1/08 , edited 4/21/08

duh wrote:
If it was Rei's decision, that makes more sense. I was referring to the last ep of the TV series. I haven't seen the movies.

Also, you're right about Anno simply expressing his own depression. I'm pretty sure Eva is just a catharsis for the guy. He wants to be understood even though his view of reality is quite skewed by the depression. So the natural thing to do (whether he thought so consciously or not) is recreate the chaos of his own emotions. I can't really say the endings were good or not because that's not the point. I don't think Anno's endings have any meaning on their own. Eva has no tangible message. The point is that once you've seen the series through, you have a better notion of what it is like to be depressed and now you have to come to your own conclusions, discarding some layers and interpreting others. This is the same position Shinji is in and Anno is in. It's something we all have to do: come to grips with our reality, be it a depressed one or a healthy one.

Putting a value judgment on the endings of Eva will only get so far. Yeah, it's anti-climactic, yeah it makes no sense, yeah the story isn't very artfully or skillfully wrapped up. But on the other hand, Eva is such a personal story anyway that it feels more like an experience that just happens than something authored. If you didn't like it, who cares. It was created more for Anno than for you. That's the feeling I get anyway.


Let's just say he was pretty boggled when Evangelion became as popular as it did. But I'll admit, the (female) characters are somewhat endearing. And the dialogue of the series does seem like it was taken from his diary or something. "I shouldn't give up, blah blah, 'cause the meaning of life is to blah blah, etc."

And yeah, you're probably not going to understand what the hell he was trying to do at the end of the TV series unless you watch the movie. And then he has some random ass ending in the movie too, that made me go, "... wtf?" so have fun with that.

Huge problem of Evangelion, all the characters were two-dimensional, as somebody said. They never progressed and/or developed beyond their initial presentation -- the underlying story had such potential. That's why the half-assed ambiguous endings are so sour. You expect to see them develop past their emo stage, learning how to cope, and they certainly begin the motions when suddenly, The End. If the point was to show the futility of life, or be a statement about how fragile our grip on it is, fine, I'd accept it. But I don't get the feeling that that's it.
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