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Chinese gymnast underage?
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Posted 8/25/08 , edited 8/31/08
Edit: If anyone is going to make argument about my post, you should read the whole thread before replying, since there are already a few similar conversations regarding to these issues

Original post:

Please don't just compare the looks of the Chinese team with US team

If you think they look underage, these are Japanese gymnast that played in the 2008 Olympic too, they placed 5th overall! Well done girls!

I've done some research on internet to prove that not just Chinese, Asian gymnasts DO look younger!

* Sorry Americans... *





Team Japan


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上村 美揮 Miki Uemura
• Birthdate: March 06, 1986
• Weight: 84 lbs (38 kg)
• Height: 4’10” (1.49 m)
• Current Age: 22 years

Pictures taken in 2006 Asian games, and Miki was 20 years old in the picture in the blue and white costume






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鶴見虹子Koko Tsurumi
• Birthdate: September 28, 1992
• Weight: 75 lbs (34 kg)
• Height: 4’7” (1.40 m)
• Age: 15 years
• Gender: Femal

Koko turning 16 this september



This year's Olympic



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大島 杏子Kyoko Oshima

• Birthdate: August 05, 1986
• Weight: 86 lbs (39 kg)
• Height: 4’10” (1.49 m)
• Age: 22 years
• Gender: Female

Age 19 at 2005 Artistic Gymnastics World Championships





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美浓 部ゆう (Yu Minobe)
• Birthdate: February 23, 1990
• Weight: 84 lbs (38 kg)
• Height: 4’9” (1.47 m)
• Age: 18 years
• Gender: Female

Age 18 on the right at the Olympics






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


新竹優子 (Yuko Shintake)

• Birthdate: April 20, 1991
• Weight: 84 lbs (38 kg)
• Height: 4’11” (1.50 m)
• Age: 17 years
• Gender: Female

There aren’t many pictures of Yuko performing on Google







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黑田 真由 (Mayu Kuroda)

• Birthdate: February 20, 1989
• Weight: 82 lbs (37 kg)
• Height: 4’9” (1.45 m)
• Age: 19 years
• Gender: Female

Age 17 at 2006 the 39th Artistic Gymnastics World Championships






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Team N. Korea

Picture taken on Asian Games Doha 2006



Left: Hong Su Jong, Age 20 (at 2006)
Middle: Cheng Fei (China), Age 18 (at 2006)
Right: Hong Un Jong, Age 17 (at 2006)



Sources mainly from Google and Baidu, feel free to link this page on other websites, but please leave a comment to tell me :D

P.S. I couldn't find too many pictures about North or South Korean woman team, but I will try my best later on! Juice for now! ;p
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Posted 8/25/08
You are right...Perfectly right and reasonable....See there was no problem in Asian games, the real problem started right after usa olympic gymnasts got beaten..All feelings I got from that NY Times article about chinese girls being underage is - they cant admit defeat....They just lost..Admit it... Happens all the time.
Chinese gymnasts totally beaten all countries there.Both sides - men and women.....
Yeah why no one compares Japan and Chinese gymnasts...From your pictures I think they even looks 14...To think they are same age as me... ...

And Asians always looked younger.....I remember what some japanology students from my country said about judging asains age :Think some age and then add ten more years
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Posted 8/25/08
They say they found legal documents and proved her to be 14 though. China isn't afraid to cheat, and they shouldn't get away with it
Posted 8/25/08 , edited 8/25/08
A forensic examination of the gymnasts' skeletal x-rays will prove to within a few months how old they actually are. China can clear this up right now by submitting the girls for multiple 3rd party full skeletal X-rays. Failure to do so is consciousness of guilt as far as I'm concerned.

Note that a Chinese gymnast that competed in the Sydney games has already admitted that she was 14 at the time. See http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/opinion/he-kexin-not-the-first-chinese-age-fraud-3224.html


In 2004, a Chinese gymnast confessed she was only 14 years old at the time of the 2000 Sydney Olympics. Today, the IOC seems to be facing a similar scenario.

Yang Yun, a bronze medalist in both individual and team competitions, was two years under the legal age requirement when she competed in Sydney.

She admitted this on Chinese state-run Television, CCTV four years after the fact. Yet neither the IOC nor the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG) chose to do anything--even though her Bronze Medal should have been forfeited.

In FIG’s athlete profile for Yang, her birth date is still listed as Dec. 2 1984, which would have made her 16 years old at the 2000 Olympics. The IOC never launched any formal investigation.

Not surprisingly, all video footage of the interview has since been wiped from the Internet. For example, clicking on this link to the interview (http://vodpod.com/watch/221711-yang-yun-my-olympics-documentary) yields an error message: “this video is no longer available.”

But China’s web Big Brother, a.k.a. the Chinese Communist Party’s Propaganda Department, somehow missed an extract of the transcript on the same web page.

The extract reads:
“Yang: I was only 14 at that time. So I thought that even though I fall this time, I could do better next time. I would have another chances. [sic]”

The fall refers to her falling off the beam during her routine, costing her the gold medal.

The mysterious Internet removals have also struck many documents proving age falsification of this year’s Beijing Olympics Chinese Gymnasts He Kexin, and Yang Yilin.


So forgive me if I have an easy time believing that some of the gymnasts this olympics are under the age limit since this has already happened in the last olympics.

Also please explain this:
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/sports/the-case-against-he-kexin-3212.html
Mistakes in five different documents and news stories? I think not.

Personally, unlike the Communist Party, I could care less who wins. What matters more is that people are cheating. This age violation is equivalent to taking performance-enhancing drugs. Do we want the whole olympics to turn into a pit of unenforced performance enhancement violations like this? If we're going to let these age violations go then we might as well just let all athletes use drugs from now on.

I don't know why the Communist Party thinks that looking good in moral terms is unimportant while having lots of fireworks and fancy giant LED video screens somehow is important. Sorry, but all the flashy BS for the opening and closing ceremonies isn't going to make up for the fraud such as the fake ethnic children, the lip syncing singing girl stand-in, and especially cheating in the gymnastic competition. Countries are judged by their morals not their ability to create the best firework show.

By doing these things, the Communist Party is making itself look dishonest and corrupt, and highlighting the fact that NONE of the minority ethnic groups are treated well enough that they can risk having even one child out of one of the ethnic groups in the opening ceremony. If they wanted to have one Han stand-in for, say, the Tibetian child I could imagine that, but are all 57 or whatever ethnic groups treated so poorly that any given child from any of 57 minority groups might hold up a big sign that says "FREE <whatever>"??? Could they not risk having even one single ethnic minority child in that group? Sorry, but fancy fireworks and dance routines won't wash away that stain from their honor.

China has lost serious face in this Olympics because of the Communist Party.
Posted 8/25/08

shibole wrote:

A forensic examination of the gymnasts' skeletal x-rays will prove to within a few months how old they actually are. China can clear this up right now by submitting the girls for multiple 3rd party full skeletal X-rays. Failure to do so is consciousness of guilt as far as I'm concerned.

Note that a Chinese gymnast that competed in the Sydney games has already admitted that she was 14 at the time. See http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/opinion/he-kexin-not-the-first-chinese-age-fraud-3224.html


In 2004, a Chinese gymnast confessed she was only 14 years old at the time of the 2000 Sydney Olympics. Today, the IOC seems to be facing a similar scenario.

Yang Yun, a bronze medalist in both individual and team competitions, was two years under the legal age requirement when she competed in Sydney.

She admitted this on Chinese state-run Television, CCTV four years after the fact. Yet neither the IOC nor the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG) chose to do anything--even though her Bronze Medal should have been forfeited.

In FIG’s athlete profile for Yang, her birth date is still listed as Dec. 2 1984, which would have made her 16 years old at the 2000 Olympics. The IOC never launched any formal investigation.

Not surprisingly, all video footage of the interview has since been wiped from the Internet. For example, clicking on this link to the interview (http://vodpod.com/watch/221711-yang-yun-my-olympics-documentary) yields an error message: “this video is no longer available.”

But China’s web Big Brother, a.k.a. the Chinese Communist Party’s Propaganda Department, somehow missed an extract of the transcript on the same web page.

The extract reads:
“Yang: I was only 14 at that time. So I thought that even though I fall this time, I could do better next time. I would have another chances. [sic]”

The fall refers to her falling off the beam during her routine, costing her the gold medal.

The mysterious Internet removals have also struck many documents proving age falsification of this year’s Beijing Olympics Chinese Gymnasts He Kexin, and Yang Yilin.


So forgive me if I have an easy time believing that some of the gymnasts this olympics are under the age limit since this has already happened in the last olympics.

I don't know why the Communist Party thinks that looking good in moral terms is unimportant while having lots of fireworks and fancy giant LED video screens somehow is important. Sorry, but all the flashy BS for the opening and closing ceremonies isn't going to make up for the fraud such as the fake ethnic children, the lip syncing singing girl stand-in, and especially cheating in the gymnastic competition. Countries are judged by their morals not their ability to create the best firework show.

By doing these things, the Communist Party is making itself look dishonest and corrupt, and highlighting the fact that NONE of the minority ethnic groups are treated well enough that they can risk having even one child out of one of the ethnic groups in the opening ceremony. If they wanted to have one Han stand-in for, say, the Tibetian child I could imagine that, but are all 57 or whatever ethnic groups treated so poorly that any given child from any of 57 minority groups might hold up a big sign that says "FREE <whatever>"??? Could they not risk having even one single ethnic minority child in that group? Sorry, but fancy fireworks and dance routines won't wash away that stain from their honor.

China has lost serious face in this Olympics because of the Communist Party.


Why so serious? There just games in the end of the day...

Who thinks the communist party (the only party woohoo) was good anyway? In America, we all think Communism is the devil and that the Chinese are not allowed to have more then one child, or there head will be cut off.
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Posted 8/25/08
Chinese people = alot shorter than Americans.
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Posted 8/26/08 , edited 8/26/08

shibole wrote:

A forensic examination of the gymnasts' skeletal x-rays will prove to within a few months how old they actually are. China can clear this up right now by submitting the girls for multiple 3rd party full skeletal X-rays. Failure to do so is consciousness of guilt as far as I'm concerned.

Note that a Chinese gymnast that competed in the Sydney games has already admitted that she was 14 at the time. See http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/opinion/he-kexin-not-the-first-chinese-age-fraud-3224.html


In 2004, a Chinese gymnast confessed she was only 14 years old at the time of the 2000 Sydney Olympics. Today, the IOC seems to be facing a similar scenario.

Yang Yun, a bronze medalist in both individual and team competitions, was two years under the legal age requirement when she competed in Sydney.

She admitted this on Chinese state-run Television, CCTV four years after the fact. Yet neither the IOC nor the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG) chose to do anything--even though her Bronze Medal should have been forfeited.

In FIG’s athlete profile for Yang, her birth date is still listed as Dec. 2 1984, which would have made her 16 years old at the 2000 Olympics. The IOC never launched any formal investigation.

Not surprisingly, all video footage of the interview has since been wiped from the Internet. For example, clicking on this link to the interview (http://vodpod.com/watch/221711-yang-yun-my-olympics-documentary) yields an error message: “this video is no longer available.”

But China’s web Big Brother, a.k.a. the Chinese Communist Party’s Propaganda Department, somehow missed an extract of the transcript on the same web page.

The extract reads:
“Yang: I was only 14 at that time. So I thought that even though I fall this time, I could do better next time. I would have another chances. [sic]”

The fall refers to her falling off the beam during her routine, costing her the gold medal.

The mysterious Internet removals have also struck many documents proving age falsification of this year’s Beijing Olympics Chinese Gymnasts He Kexin, and Yang Yilin.


So forgive me if I have an easy time believing that some of the gymnasts this olympics are under the age limit since this has already happened in the last olympics.

Also please explain this:
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/sports/the-case-against-he-kexin-3212.html
Mistakes in five different documents and news stories? I think not.

Personally, unlike the Communist Party, I could care less who wins. What matters more is that people are cheating. This age violation is equivalent to taking performance-enhancing drugs. Do we want the whole olympics to turn into a pit of unenforced performance enhancement violations like this? If we're going to let these age violations go then we might as well just let all athletes use drugs from now on.

I don't know why the Communist Party thinks that looking good in moral terms is unimportant while having lots of fireworks and fancy giant LED video screens somehow is important. Sorry, but all the flashy BS for the opening and closing ceremonies isn't going to make up for the fraud such as the fake ethnic children, the lip syncing singing girl stand-in, and especially cheating in the gymnastic competition. Countries are judged by their morals not their ability to create the best firework show.

By doing these things, the Communist Party is making itself look dishonest and corrupt, and highlighting the fact that NONE of the minority ethnic groups are treated well enough that they can risk having even one child out of one of the ethnic groups in the opening ceremony. If they wanted to have one Han stand-in for, say, the Tibetian child I could imagine that, but are all 57 or whatever ethnic groups treated so poorly that any given child from any of 57 minority groups might hold up a big sign that says "FREE <whatever>"??? Could they not risk having even one single ethnic minority child in that group? Sorry, but fancy fireworks and dance routines won't wash away that stain from their honor.

China has lost serious face in this Olympics because of the Communist Party.



I don't blame you for believing the US media so easily, at the end of the day, nothing and i mean NOTHING good will ever come out from US media's mouth apart from reporting how great America is

I feel sorry for those performers who worked so hard in the Olympics because all they get after is people attacking the stuff that's not even important or not related to their performance. Plus I like you to explain how china cheated? all the judges comes from all different countries, all bias judging will results in penalties, plus all cameras are stand by in every angles in every competitions, if china ever cheated, i'm sure there will be alot of 'cheating videos' floating around, but you see none so far, do you?

And you've never lived in China before, the Chinese government let the rest of ethnic minorities to have their own village and culture, that's why you don't see a lot of them in major cities. Plus not many Tibetans complains about China apart from the bloody dalai lamas, just because China free the slaves from them, they hold a grudge against the government

If we don't have birth control, you will then complain about how many Chinese are manipulating in this world and make rubbish about it, and you don't get it, do you? poor country have lots of children, and lots of children will make the country poorer, plus it's only big cities that have the birth control thing, villages that do farming as their main income can have 2 if the first one is not a boy

Once again, if the Chinese government wanted to lie about He's age, you wouldn't be able to find those 'proofs' on internet that can be easily searched on Google, I'm sure that they can afford a few hundred bucks to erase all these 'evidence' before the Olympics since we spent 40 billions on the whole event.
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Posted 8/26/08
You can't exactly determine a person's age just by their x-rays...plus...just because they're short, and they look young doesn't mean they are. I also 100% fully support the Chinese gymnast.
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Posted 8/26/08 , edited 8/26/08

dmitsuki wrote:
Why so serious? There just games in the end of the day...

Who thinks the communist party (the only party woohoo) was good anyway? In America, we all think Communism is the devil and that the Chinese are not allowed to have more then one child, or there head will be cut off.


What he said. Plus the fact that the Olympics are bloody boring behind all the hype.
It's just a bloody medal at the end of the day. Not even real gold. get over it.
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Posted 8/26/08
they fight so hard just for the olympics then if they are guilty ._.
oh man..
Posted 8/26/08

BlargTheCat wrote:

You can't exactly determine a person's age just by their x-rays...plus...just because they're short, and they look young doesn't mean they are. I also 100% fully support the Chinese gymnast.


how can you be so sure?
lies are easily made, I don't know whenever this is true or not. But I think it could be that some of these girls are under aged. In all cases, it doesn't matters because if china/ the girls want this, are okey with it(even if the girls aren't okey with this themselves) what can we do about it?

Posted 8/26/08

h4x0rz wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:
Why so serious? There just games in the end of the day...

Who thinks the communist party (the only party woohoo) was good anyway? In America, we all think Communism is the devil and that the Chinese are not allowed to have more then one child, or there head will be cut off.


What he said. Plus the fact that the Olympics are bloody boring behind all the hype.
It's just a bloody medal at the end of the day. Not even real gold. get over it.

You guys don't seem to get the point. I don't give a damn about the US winning metals, the games, or anything. What I care about is the Communist Party making China look bad. I would be speaking out against this even if the gymnasts hadn't won any metals.

The fact is that the Communist Party is making the Chinese Civilization look bad and for essentially nothing. A few stupid medals don't make up for this image of China as a bunch of cheating lying people being further reinforced by the actual government cheating and lying. Funny how the CCP is trying to crack down on corrupt officials yet they make the whole government look corrupt with a stunt like this while the whole world is looking.

As sorry, but yes you can estimate physiological age based on all kinds of things like skeletal proportions, dental growth patterns, etc: http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijba/vol1n2/radiograph.xml

As for the western media, I think the western media are incompetent and biased against China, but the evidence here was found by random hacker types and not some agents of the media. Though there is bias and incompetence in the media, there just isn't sufficient motivation to outright fabricate evidence. Maybe some Communist Party people think the medals are more important than honesty, but here we believe that honesty and reputation are much more important than stupid medals.

(You guys don't seem to realize that I have a Chinese wife who, BTW, kind of looks like she's 14-16 or something even though she's 32, so I'm literally very intimately familiar with Chinese people not looking their age. Due to the fact that I have Chinese relatives I do care how China looks to people and this does not look good.)

I wish Chinese people would stop assuming that the Communist Party actually represents China. They don't. Stop implying it all the time.
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Posted 8/26/08 , edited 8/26/08

shibole wrote:



The Communist party has always made China look bad. Nothing new there.
But I'm pretty sick of all this "Underage Gymnast" controversy. If anybody honestly cared, they'd be watching gymnastics, 100 meters running and swimming more than once in four years. The Olympics is just a patriotism extravaganza, and in my opinion, it's not worth too much of debate.
The Euro 2008 was a hell lot better anyway.

As for the western media, I think the western media are incompetent and biased against China, but the evidence here was found by random hacker types and not some agents of the media. Though there is bias and incompetence in the media, there just isn't sufficient motivation to outright fabricate evidence. Maybe some Communist Party people think the medals are more important than honesty, but here we believe that honesty and reputation are much more important than stupid medals.

(You guys don't seem to realize that I have a Chinese wife who, BTW, kind of looks like she's 14-16 or something even though she's 32, so I'm literally very intimately familiar with Chinese people not looking their age. Due to the fact that I have Chinese relatives I do care how China looks to people and this does not look good.)

I wish Chinese people would stop assuming that the Communist Party actually represents China. They don't. Stop implying it all the time.

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Posted 8/26/08 , edited 8/26/08

BlargTheCat wrote:

You can't exactly determine a person's age just by their x-rays...plus...just because they're short, and they look young doesn't mean they are. I also 100% fully support the Chinese gymnast.


Yes, actually, you can. Not by the size of the bones, but by whether or not they are capable of growing any further. While I'm not sure how this method works by finding the age of a full grown adult, it would most defenitaly work on children or persons being accused of 14 and under.


tinyd0t wrote:


I don't blame you for believing the US media so easily, at the end of the day, nothing and i mean NOTHING good will ever come out from US media's mouth apart from reporting how great America is


You're really weakening your arguement here. What's the difference from one person following the American media blindly and you following one source? There isn't, no matter what the country or political party may be. Now, I do give credit to those who actually looked further for sources to discover the competitors real ages. As far as I am concerned, you can't put 100% faith in anything you read. Like my dad always told me, "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see." So you found one source over google (which if you were being lied to, doesn't matter all that much anyway, as mainstream sites like google an wikipedia would be the first to be incorrect) and another found a document that contradicts your information- what makes you right?

~

As for my opinion on the matter, if the girls are underage and competing then it is against the rules and they should be disqualified. That's truly unfortunate, but, it does spark the debate- should there be an age limit? This in turn could open up the event for generations to come.
Posted 8/26/08

shibole wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:
Why so serious? There just games in the end of the day...

Who thinks the communist party (the only party woohoo) was good anyway? In America, we all think Communism is the devil and that the Chinese are not allowed to have more then one child, or there head will be cut off.


What he said. Plus the fact that the Olympics are bloody boring behind all the hype.
It's just a bloody medal at the end of the day. Not even real gold. get over it.

You guys don't seem to get the point. I don't give a damn about the US winning metals, the games, or anything. What I care about is the Communist Party making China look bad. I would be speaking out against this even if the gymnasts hadn't won any metals.

The fact is that the Communist Party is making the Chinese Civilization look bad and for essentially nothing. A few stupid medals don't make up for this image of China as a bunch of cheating lying people being further reinforced by the actual government cheating and lying. Funny how the CCP is trying to crack down on corrupt officials yet they make the whole government look corrupt with a stunt like this while the whole world is looking.

As sorry, but yes you can estimate physiological age based on all kinds of things like skeletal proportions, dental growth patterns, etc: http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijba/vol1n2/radiograph.xml

As for the western media, I think the western media are incompetent and biased against China, but the evidence here was found by random hacker types and not some agents of the media. Though there is bias and incompetence in the media, there just isn't sufficient motivation to outright fabricate evidence. Maybe some Communist Party people think the medals are more important than honesty, but here we believe that honesty and reputation are much more important than stupid medals.

(You guys don't seem to realize that I have a Chinese wife who, BTW, kind of looks like she's 14-16 or something even though she's 32, so I'm literally very intimately familiar with Chinese people not looking their age. Due to the fact that I have Chinese relatives I do care how China looks to people and this does not look good.)

I wish Chinese people would stop assuming that the Communist Party actually represents China. They don't. Stop implying it all the time.

Dude I thought you got it already, as long as there's COMMUNISM in China America will ALWAYS have a bias towards China. The last time a Country was a powerful communism, we spent a trillion dollars making weapons, and went to war in multiple country's including Vietnam and Korea. So yeah, as long as the word communism is there, we will look at it through narrow eyes.
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