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Animal Experimentation
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27 / M / Jersey
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Posted 3/24/07
Right now I assume that the majority of people here are obviously against animal experimentation. The public and organizations such as PETA have overly publicized the faults in the system. So my question is do we have any legitimate alternative that we can use or are you comfortable to use animals for our own selfish needs?

The most likely answers are probably:
Humans - First of all this is an ethical issue as well and thus leads us nowhere.
Tissue Cultures - The use of cultures is highly experimental because we have yet to simulate an entire organism. Tissue cultures are unstable and do not represent the whole.
Computer Simulations - This will never happen. The human body itself is too complicated to simulate. There are too many variables.

If you're going to post please add some substance instance of one lined sentences. I'm trying to incite some debate and intelligent conversation.
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27 / M
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Posted 3/24/07
I’m not at all against it. My personal religious belief is that animals were given to man by God to do with what they please. However, to look at this secularly I don’t think there is a good or plausible alternative. Humans are too precious to be used like lab rats. In some cases it may be better to use the corpses of fallen creatures rather than living beings. Yet there are obvious flaws in this. I wont go into them because I’m pretty sure that anyone can figure out why this form of testing wont always give their necessary information.

We could try and clone something and use it, as I have recently been reading we have somehow managed to completely create a sheep… I don’t understand the details of it, but apparently they made a sheep that behaves like a normal sheep and also appears like a normal sheep. But this would be ridiculous and very inefficient as far as cost goes.

In a word my answer is no. We do not have a good alternative except to stop testing or chemical science altogether. Naturally I am very apposed to both of these paths.

What about you, Jam? If I presented you with this question, how would you answer it? I’m sincerely interested, please don’t think I’m testing you!
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27 / M / Jersey
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Posted 3/24/07
I completely agree with you, Seraph, there is no alternative. I'm just tired of all the people who constantly stick up for animal rights. I would be all for it if there was an alternative. Groups like PETA constantly appeal to a sense of guilt to many people so they automatically claim to end it. The general masses get a stereotypical image of abusive behavior toward animals. It is true that it's bad and shouldn't continue but what can we do?

The cloning issue is similar to the humans as test subjects alternative. It just raises more ethical questions. Do clones enjoy the same rights as we do? Are they considered equals? In the end, we return to where we began.

I made this topic to try to bring to light that animal experimentation is needed. Ignorance pisses me off a lot. That's why I try to learn as much as I can. There are just too many close minded people who stick to a stance they don't understand. Oh well time for sleep.
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30 / M / Sask-at-chew-an,...
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Posted 3/24/07
I agree with Seraph. He basically hit the nail on the head (minus the religiouse beleifs part) I beleive we should use animals before humans. I don't think they should be used for make up and hair care products tho. I'm going to touch up on the cloning part tho. If in the future humans could be cloned at a minimal cost would it be alright to do tests on clones?
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27 / M
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Posted 3/24/07
....Make a new thread for that one, Acer. Let's not change the topic on this one, okay?
Posted 3/24/07
It doesn't matter to me at all. Of course I'm not against it. Humans are dominant and therefore we can do anything that we want. Unless something in nature is able to dominate us, which is highly unlikely, we will remain dominant. Plus, humans have, over time, created most of the animals used in those experiments through selective breeding, they exist only because we wanted them to and because we saw benefits in doing so. Experimentation on them is one of those benefits.
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27 / M
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Posted 3/24/07
To reply to you, Jam, I dislike Ignorance too. However, I don't think it is fair to get upset over it. People can't always help being ignorant. As educated individuals it is our job to cure this plague by spreading the only medicine we can. Knowledge.

I do hate how PETA uses guilt to manipulate people. I do not like it when people look at a subject from one point of view, and ignore every other side of it. Still, they are welcome to their belief system.

I still think the clone thing should be made into its own thread, but I'll leave that to you or Acer since you're the ones who brought up the question.
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28 / M
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Posted 3/24/07
I don't see PETA people stepping up to take the place of the animals. I wouldn't mind seeing them getting tested on. those assholes used to come and throw paint on any person wearing fur here.
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28 / M / CALIFORNIA
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Posted 3/24/07
ok like in futurama if the animal is smart like a dolphin dont but i don consider a rat smart no offense!!! so go ahead if its a rat
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26 / M / Canada
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Posted 3/24/07
Well, we are playing with our creations right? So shouldn't it be right to test them ourselves despite the consequences, cause the friggin world is over populated already... So yeah, screw animals testing, go test on some humans you fukin shit ass bastards.!! Hu ya!

And selective breeding is different, it's experimenting with the animals themselves to produce the best outcome, not using products that can possibliy kill them. I mean, let's combine a fast horse and a a powerhouse horse, and viola! we have a strong and fast horse! huza!

but if cloning was possible somehow later...then yeah sure, humans ftw, other than that I say no to animal testing cause it's cruel and they are cool unlike humans which are only filled with greed and shit... :D
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27 / M
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Posted 3/24/07
OH YA! I forgot that PETA did that! GRR! That stuff used to throw me into a fit of rage, I used to fantasize about what I would do if I got my hands on them. I would’ve staked their hands and feet to the ground, slit their torso open down the center, torn open their muscle shell, and filled them with pig feed. Then I would’ve let angry hogs out so that they could be brutally eaten from inside out!

Now I am more healthy. Years of happy pills helped! :p, jk. But I do hate that. And you’re right Jorl, they should volunteer if they’ve got a problem with it. At least I think you are.

Tony, I disagree. I don’t think Futerama is a good place to be learning your values either. Not saying you did, just saying you might want to get a better example in the future or people will use that against you. Anyway, I think all animals are the same. Just because something is cute or smart doesn’t mean it is more important than something else. Anyway, Dolphins are not as important as some dumber creatures to our ecosystem so… I think we should only test on animals bred in captivity. The environment is a very delicate thing.

Farmers used to shoot this certain breed of hawk not far from here. They ended up loosing a lot of money because rodents became overly numerous and devoured their crops. They started killing the hawks because they were stealing food from their paltry. In the end they lost their crops. After that trees started dying because starving rodents began to devour their roots and basses.

It took a long time and a lot of money to fix that place back up and make it healthy again.

Also I didn't come up with that torture tactic. I read about it in a history book.

And, what's your name with the robot avatar, please have more respect for other people who might find that kind of language offensive. I disagree with your opinion, but you are welcome to it. Still, please be more prudent in how you express sit in the future. I would be much obliged.

Also, Jorl, I agree with your opinion but I do request you be a little more respectful in the future. Not ordering you or anything, but it is a personal request.
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35 / F / well at the computer
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Posted 3/24/07
I am against animal testing if it's for cosmetics, shampoos, soaps, etc. I don't like it when I see people wearing fur coats because to me, they look tacky but I'm not going to throw paint on a person for it either. Personally I would rather someone wear faux fur or synthetics just because I think animals need their fur.

Okay I am for animal testing for medical research. Life saving cancer drugs, vaccines for certain diseases, AIDS, Parkingsons , Diabetes, and certain other things that I can't remember cause it's 2 am are fine by me. I'm not going to complain about that. It's been done for years and half the people in PETA have probably benefited in some way from animal testing especially if they have a MMR vaccination.

I'm not a fan of PETA because I find it very hypocritical to push for animal rights when there are so many homeless people on the street. I think they serve the community better if they send their energy building homeless shelters, holding food drives and make clothing.

I don't think there will ever be a substitute for animal testing.
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F / Hogwarts
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Posted 3/25/07
i never liked fur coats anyway, and yeh im against animal testing.

just think about it this way, that those animals will die with honor, because they help us in research.... and animals multiply faster anyway so....
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27 / Martian / Estonia
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Posted 3/25/07
You would be surprised how few people actually are against animal research, especialy in eastern-Europe because quite frankly there are bigger concerns gripping modern day society.

How i justify animal research. If i were to explain it to PETAns i would put it in terms that they would understand, such as: Survival of the fittest, superiority among species, food-chain etc.

To be honest, i don´t get who the hell buys into that PETA propaganda, i mean they are pro-violence, they contradict themselves and even their Vice-President uses Insulin.
I mean where do they come off on a high horse?

Also if were talking animal rights, then what about animal LAW? Should we lock them up if they fornicate on the street, in public view? Should we lock them up for indecent exposure? Should we put them on the electric chair for killing other animals?

Yeah animal research isint pretty, but neighter is life, so deal with it.
( :
BTW^: Bellus your post doesent make sense.
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25 / M / Uraguay
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Posted 3/25/07
^LOL "lock em up for indecet exposure" lmfao ur funny

if we didnt have animal testing none of us would be here today we all woulda died from aids and the black plague ;)'
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