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Is there really such a thing as good or bad?
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Posted 8/29/08

sorenku wrote:

... I'll take that as a yes.


Pretty much. I'm overly verbose.
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Posted 8/29/08 , edited 8/29/08

animallover2929 wrote:

Hey everyone,
I believe "good" and "bad" is a term used to describe our beliefs.' Work is good. Sex is bad." are all learned in our society. But, who made up these rules? And since when do we have to follow them? Why must we always follow other peoples thoughts and orders, and not our own. I do believe in god, however, i think he or she wants us to make our own desicions, live our own life, and do our own thing.. no matter how ugly and disgusting the choice might be. Making them good or bad is just how we look at it. "Situations arise, but it matters what you make of them that give them meaning" I strongly believe in that. In reality, there is no good or bad. There's only what we BELIEVE.


If "good" and "bad" were only terms used to describe you or your community's/society's beliefs, then if you were to enter a city in which the law states that killing is okay, it would be okay? We follow the rules of the state/goverment because the we believe that the gov't has the capability and the judgement to decide what is legal and what is not. If the government begins to head in a direction that we as a people believe is not fundamentally "good" or "okay", then we hold an election and the people decide, correct?

If in life, each of us lived life according to our own decisions, and did our own thing, then how are we to know whether what we is right is really correct? If our decision is "ugly and digusting" in our eyes, then it would be "bad", wouldn't it? If it is bad, then common sense tells us that we shouln't do it. If one person viewed an object as "bad", and one person viewed something as "good", then what would be the basis on determining who is right? If your own perspective was needed to deem something "good or "bad", then why do we care what other people think? Why would YOU care what we think, in starting this thread?

If I said that you were completely and totally wrong, then how would you answer? If I really believed you were wrong, then by your logic, I must be right, and you must be wrong. Morals cannot and should not be determined by humans that are prone to error and making mistakes.

Following this, why do we know what is good and what is bad? What would be the standard for considering if something was good or bad? If it helps us? Then why do we help other people? Why do we have charities? Charities are bad because they don't benefit us at all, do they? We lose money, someone we (probably) don't know recieves our money.



If I am totally incorrect, and you feel so, please, let me know. I actually find this topic rather engaging, and wouldn't mind talking about it some more.
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Posted 8/30/08 , edited 8/30/08
there is no good or bad it is all a matter of opinion, morals
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Posted 8/30/08

iEatedyou wrote:


animallover2929 wrote:

Hey everyone,
I believe "good" and "bad" is a term used to describe our beliefs.' Work is good. Sex is bad." are all learned in our society. But, who made up these rules? And since when do we have to follow them? Why must we always follow other peoples thoughts and orders, and not our own. I do believe in god, however, i think he or she wants us to make our own desicions, live our own life, and do our own thing.. no matter how ugly and disgusting the choice might be. Making them good or bad is just how we look at it. "Situations arise, but it matters what you make of them that give them meaning" I strongly believe in that. In reality, there is no good or bad. There's only what we BELIEVE.


If "good" and "bad" were only terms used to describe you or your community's/society's beliefs, then if you were to enter a city in which the law states that killing is okay, it would be okay? We follow the rules of the state/goverment because the we believe that the gov't has the capability and the judgement to decide what is legal and what is not. If the government begins to head in a direction that we as a people believe is not fundamentally "good" or "okay", then we hold an election and the people decide, correct?

If in life, each of us lived life according to our own decisions, and did our own thing, then how are we to know whether what we is right is really correct? If our decision is "ugly and digusting" in our eyes, then it would be "bad", wouldn't it? If it is bad, then common sense tells us that we shouln't do it. If one person viewed an object as "bad", and one person viewed something as "good", then what would be the basis on determining who is right? If your own perspective was needed to deem something "good or "bad", then why do we care what other people think? Why would YOU care what we think, in starting this thread?

If I said that you were completely and totally wrong, then how would you answer? If I really believed you were wrong, then by your logic, I must be right, and you must be wrong. Morals cannot and should not be determined by humans that are prone to error and making mistakes.

Following this, why do we know what is good and what is bad? What would be the standard for considering if something was good or bad? If it helps us? Then why do we help other people? Why do we have charities? Charities are bad because they don't benefit us at all, do they? We lose money, someone we (probably) don't know recieves our money.



If I am totally incorrect, and you feel so, please, let me know. I actually find this topic rather engaging, and wouldn't mind talking about it some more.


Yes, I believe in what you are saying. "Good" and "bad" are just terms on what we follow. The government and religion sets out our guidelines and keeps telling us to think what THEY think. We follow them instead of following ourselves. We should follow on what WE think. Killing, sex, money are "bad" to most people because the governemnts and religions say so. However we kill animals for entertainment. We do sex for fun. We love having and spending money. Then whats wrong with it? We LOVE doing these things on what most leaders call "shameful". Then what makes it so "bad"? We feel "good" inside when we do these "bad" things. This what causes people's self-love and confidence to lower. That's not a "good" thing at all.

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Posted 8/30/08

animallover2929 wrote:

Yes, I believe in what you are saying. "Good" and "bad" are just terms on what we follow. The government and religion sets out our guidelines and keeps telling us to think what THEY think. We follow them instead of following ourselves. We should follow on what WE think. Killing, sex, money are "bad" to most people because the governemnts and religions say so. However we kill animals for entertainment. We do sex for fun. We love having and spending money. Then whats wrong with it? We LOVE doing these things on what most leaders call "shameful". Then what makes it so "bad"? We feel "good" inside when we do these "bad" things. This what causes people's self-love and confidence to lower. That's not a "good" thing at all.



If there are no laws to guide us, then there is no way that we can all cooperate and live peacefully together, especially in a world like ours that is dominated by money and ownership of material things. Many laws are based on what humans overall consider to be good and bad. If there were no laws to punish the handful of people who don't have a problem with killing, stealing, and raping, then there would be nothing to stop them from doing all of those things to everyone. Even if killing someone only makes 1/100 people feel good, that one person is eventually going to wipe out everyone. Does that sound good to you?

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Posted 8/30/08
Eh, the terms "good" and "bad" are pretty subjective. Of course there are things that are generally accepted as either "good" or "bad".
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Posted 8/30/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


animallover2929 wrote:

Yes, I believe in what you are saying. "Good" and "bad" are just terms on what we follow. The government and religion sets out our guidelines and keeps telling us to think what THEY think. We follow them instead of following ourselves. We should follow on what WE think. Killing, sex, money are "bad" to most people because the governemnts and religions say so. However we kill animals for entertainment. We do sex for fun. We love having and spending money. Then whats wrong with it? We LOVE doing these things on what most leaders call "shameful". Then what makes it so "bad"? We feel "good" inside when we do these "bad" things. This what causes people's self-love and confidence to lower. That's not a "good" thing at all.



If there are no laws to guide us, then there is no way that we can all cooperate and live peacefully together, especially in a world like ours that is dominated by money and ownership of material things. Many laws are based on what humans overall consider to be good and bad. If there were no laws to punish the handful of people who don't have a problem with killing, stealing, and raping, then there would be nothing to stop them from doing all of those things to everyone. Even if killing someone only makes 1/100 people feel good, that one person is eventually going to wipe out everyone. Does that sound good to you?



I'm not saying we should delete all laws. I'm saying a lot of people have more views of what is "good" and "bad" then just the pansies that run our country looking for more ways to boost up their reputation so they can find meaning to their pathetic life. (I hate the government lol) But... for example.. many people saw criminal justice as "bad".. others say its "good", However in the end.. the "people" don't even matter.. its the government that says "criminal justice is good and right". So people follow. this thinking, saying, and doing is not their own. "Good" and "bad" helps define who you are. Don't let someone take away the person you are. If your a killer.. go out and kill and have a fun time in jail. If your a saint.. good for you! Be who you are. Your jugdements of "good" and "bad" are values someone like George Bush shouldn't take away. I see you think laws are good. Then keep thinking that. Keep doing what your doing. Keep defining who you are. Wow, im being a werido today 0_0
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Posted 8/30/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


animallover2929 wrote:

Yes, I believe in what you are saying. "Good" and "bad" are just terms on what we follow. The government and religion sets out our guidelines and keeps telling us to think what THEY think. We follow them instead of following ourselves. We should follow on what WE think. Killing, sex, money are "bad" to most people because the governemnts and religions say so. However we kill animals for entertainment. We do sex for fun. We love having and spending money. Then whats wrong with it? We LOVE doing these things on what most leaders call "shameful". Then what makes it so "bad"? We feel "good" inside when we do these "bad" things. This what causes people's self-love and confidence to lower. That's not a "good" thing at all.



If there are no laws to guide us, then there is no way that we can all cooperate and live peacefully together, especially in a world like ours that is dominated by money and ownership of material things. Many laws are based on what humans overall consider to be good and bad. If there were no laws to punish the handful of people who don't have a problem with killing, stealing, and raping, then there would be nothing to stop them from doing all of those things to everyone. Even if killing someone only makes 1/100 people feel good, that one person is eventually going to wipe out everyone. Does that sound good to you?



I suppose theoretically that sounds correct but you left out the fact that humans have a heart, they have inate feelings so to speak. For those who go against the human heart it seriously took years of curruption before their hearts turned. Of course the general law is do onto others as you would have others do onto you, I think it was kierkagaard (I'll figure out later) that used that law as a base for his philosophy on this kind of subject.
But if there were no laws to guide us, why do we follow such non-existant laws anyways? That's the problem with your arguement.
My simple counter arguement is that there are moral laws found in the human heart that prevent us from randomly commiting mass murders and such. Everyone is born with these general laws, emotionally but not rationally. As I said before, it takes years of corruption before the human heart changes from what it was originally.
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Posted 8/31/08
Good and bad are labels, completely subjective. Nothing is good and bad in itself, it needs to be defined as such. There is no science to it at all, nothing pragmatic, even utilitarism fails. What happiness? And if happiness is important, why not train people to be happy in odd situations instead. To feel joy in sorrow, pain, embarassement. In the end it becomes too diffuse to define. There is no good and bad without people to define it. Since the definitions vary, it is all subjective.

It is not through that we are born with a conscience. As a child I tormented ants, what was unfair was when someone was given something and I wasn't - which is just being loudly selfish. Children are almost exclusively selfish, and can be observed bullying each other in the cruelest ways, destroying property, never giving anyone any consideration. If we are born with conscience, how come we are raised to believe what we did for fun was wrong untill we belive it? There would be no need. And we always need to be threatened with sanctions throughout life.
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Posted 8/31/08 , edited 8/31/08

crunchypibb wrote:

My simple counter arguement is that there are moral laws found in the human heart that prevent us from randomly commiting mass murders and such. Everyone is born with these general laws, emotionally but not rationally. As I said before, it takes years of corruption before the human heart changes from what it was originally.


I can see how those moral laws would work if we were just like every other animal, but would those laws work in a society like ours, where money and possessions rule everything, and most people only care about getting some sort of physical pleasure? If I could go out and take all of someones stuff without any sort of negative consequences affecting me, I'd do it, and I'm sure all of us would if we were raised to think that is ok in a society without laws set by some form of government.

Even though we may all be "born" with these laws, there's still crazy people out there who enjoy hurting and killing others. So even though it's basic human instinct to not kill other humans, those few crazy people could do a lot of damage on their own if there weren't any laws to stop them.


animallover2929 wrote:

I'm not saying we should delete all laws. I'm saying a lot of people have more views of what is "good" and "bad" then just the pansies that run our country looking for more ways to boost up their reputation so they can find meaning to their pathetic life. (I hate the government lol) But... for example.. many people saw criminal justice as "bad".. others say its "good", However in the end.. the "people" don't even matter.. its the government that says "criminal justice is good and right". So people follow. this thinking, saying, and doing is not their own. "Good" and "bad" helps define who you are. Don't let someone take away the person you are. If your a killer.. go out and kill and have a fun time in jail. If your a saint.. good for you! Be who you are. Your jugdements of "good" and "bad" are values someone like George Bush shouldn't take away. I see you think laws are good. Then keep thinking that. Keep doing what your doing. Keep defining who you are. Wow, im being a werido today 0_0


Just because there is a law that tells us to do something doesn't mean that we have to agree with it. Most people go along with it because breaking it isn't worth the consequences. Many laws (aside from ones that have to do with taxes) are in place to help keep us safe, so the possible consequences are often more than just going to jail. Someone might enjoy speeding down the highway, but most likely it won't be worth the fine or the risk of serious injury and death.

You really think it's ok for someone to take another human's life just because they think it's fun? What if they killed someone you care about, would you forgive them without hesitation because they were just having fun? Would you forgive someone for punching you in the face and breaking your nose because they thought it would be funny? Would you forgive someone for burning down your house just because they were bored and had nothing else to do?
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Posted 8/31/08
I think that you're good or bad, depending on how often you do right or wrong according to what you're taught to be right or wrong. If you're good you try to follow your conscience as much as possible.
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Posted 8/31/08
There is good and there is bad and there is the place the middle - the grey area. I think that a lot of people deny the existence of the grey area but most people are shades of grey. No one is completely good or bad. Of course you are more likely to find people creeping towards the bad end of the scale than good because it is much harder to be completely good.
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Posted 8/31/08

Cuddlebuns wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:

My simple counter arguement is that there are moral laws found in the human heart that prevent us from randomly commiting mass murders and such. Everyone is born with these general laws, emotionally but not rationally. As I said before, it takes years of corruption before the human heart changes from what it was originally.


I can see how those moral laws would work if we were just like every other animal, but would those laws work in a society like ours, where money and possessions rule everything, and most people only care about getting some sort of physical pleasure? If I could go out and take all of someones stuff without any sort of negative consequences affecting me, I'd do it, and I'm sure all of us would if we were raised to think that is ok in a society without laws set by some form of government.

Even though we may all be "born" with these laws, there's still crazy people out there who enjoy hurting and killing others. So even though it's basic human instinct to not kill other humans, those few crazy people could do a lot of damage on their own if there weren't any laws to stop them.


"nothing is new under the sun" - Eccl. 1:9

Just because we invent new objects it doesn't mean our morals change all of a sudden. Maybe how we see happiness but that's it. People like to go against these laws not because they feel it's right but because they get a rush from going against the grain. Simple as that.
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Posted 9/29/08
ppl have screwed it so many times that i dont really know anymore

good and evil exist just in the mind of the people and thats why different ppl have different view on what is good and what is wrong
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Posted 9/29/08
Good and evil are absolutes in my opinion. I believe that they are defined by God and that they are absolute.
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