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The Power of Prayer
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Posted 9/4/08

angelseraphim wrote:

Well our genetic structures are not the same. Some people have higher adaptability to certain conditions and different rates of recovery. Some people have weak immune systems and suffer from the common cold for longer periods. Some people recover in less then 3 days. You know those X-men movies. Lets just say some of us have inherited the X-gene and some of us have dormant X-genes. Similar concept. Its all random, natural selection.


You’re argument is kind of flawed by the concept of reduction ad absurdum and Occam’s Razor. But, you’re still right. This isn’t proof of anything. This being said, the study was repeated multiple times with the same results-hints it’s being published in a college text book.
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Posted 9/4/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


angelseraphim wrote:

Well our genetic structures are not the same. Some people have higher adaptability to certain conditions and different rates of recovery. Some people have weak immune systems and suffer from the common cold for longer periods. Some people recover in less then 3 days. You know those X-men movies. Lets just say some of us have inherited the X-gene and some of us have dormant X-genes. Similar concept. Its all random, natural selection.


You’re argument is kind of flawed by the concept of reduction ad absurdum and Occam’s Razor. But, you’re still right. This isn’t proof of anything. This being said, the study was repeated multiple times with the same results-hints it’s being published in a college text book.


Hmm. That being said the possibility of human error in that experiment is slim. But something on the generic level must be occurring. I'm very fascinated with genetics and gene therapy. Whats your theory Seraph?
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Posted 9/4/08
Prayer is something you do when you are too stupid or lazy to find an actual way of dealing with something.
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Posted 9/4/08
Yay, an athiest is considering prayer. Praise Allah (I'm christian btw)
I'll have to admit though, some people are stupid when it comes to prayer like you said, that they pray instead of going to a hospital cause they got no insurance and it's cheap. Of course the best thing is to do both really, it's that obvious. It's not like Jesus hates hospitals.
Anyways, ya prayer can actually help. But you really have to get into it. For those who haven't tried prayer including christians, it's like asking your neighbor for help. Except your neighbor is God and he will help you in the best way he can. He will answer your prayers, most of the time it will be around your best interest but if you ask something like "I wanna be a superstar in Hollywood" it's not gonna happen. In fact something like that can actually be the opposite of beneficial to you.
So next time you hear someone bitch about how God hasn't answered their prayers it's either because it's not time yet or there were better options than what you just asked. If your favorite aunt is dying and you pray for her and she dies, she's probably in heaven so don't complain.
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Posted 9/4/08

angelseraphim wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


angelseraphim wrote:

Well our genetic structures are not the same. Some people have higher adaptability to certain conditions and different rates of recovery. Some people have weak immune systems and suffer from the common cold for longer periods. Some people recover in less then 3 days. You know those X-men movies. Lets just say some of us have inherited the X-gene and some of us have dormant X-genes. Similar concept. Its all random, natural selection.


You’re argument is kind of flawed by the concept of reduction ad absurdum and Occam’s Razor. But, you’re still right. This isn’t proof of anything. This being said, the study was repeated multiple times with the same results-hints it’s being published in a college text book.


Hmm. That being said the possibility of human error in that experiment is slim. But something on the generic level must be occurring. I'm very fascinated with genetics and gene therapy. Whats your theory Seraph?


What’s my theory? Well, the easiest answer would be to accredit the difference to divine intervention, but that’s a sweeping conclusion. I don’t think that this study necessarily evidences any form of deity or spirit. Secularly speaking, it’s more likely that the people are connecting with each other.

The human consciousness is a very strange thing. Thoughts are the only immaterial thing that can interact with mater. When it comes to the brain we understand how signals are transferred through electrochemical reactions. What we don’t currently comprehend is how the neurons know what we want.

A window breaks. The vibrations hit your ear and are transferred to your brain. An electrochemical signal is shot from your brain and triggers your nerves. Your muscles pump into action. Chemical energy becomes kinetic energy. You move over to the window to see what happened. It’s all very mechanical…except, we –choose- to investigate. A thought is an imaginary concept. It’s not tangible, it’s not located anywhere specific, it doesn’t have mass, it doesn’t have energy, there’s no physical force to a thought whatsoever.

Yet, a thought it was what makes our neuron fire. A thought, an imaginary concept, is causing a very real and physical change. Eventually I’m sure we’ll find a scientific explanation for this. Until then we really don’t have a clue how a mere concept can directly interact with our genetic and biological functions.

Attacking this secularly, I’d theorize that we’re evolutionarily programmed to have some kind of a mental connection to the outside world. I mean, if our thoughts can interact with our brains then why not other physical items? Our brains are completely physical, and they interact with thought.

Hypochondriacs are so paranoid of illness that they begin to have symptoms. In an extreme case a person can literally give themselves a brain tumor simply by constantly fearing that they have one. Their mind interacts with their body. Theoretically, then, why shouldn’t it be possible to interact with somebody else’s body?

The placebo is the most powerful drug available to us right now. Yet, it’s just a sugar pill with no real benefit except the psychological. As you said earlier it makes people think they’re getting better and this increases the likely hood that they really will recover. So, if this is true, then maybe it’s also true that we can help other people recover simply by believing that they will get better.

That would actually explain a lot of things. One example is that we really do have documented events in which a Christian evangelical or preacher heals somebody of a known medical illness. There’ve been several cases where cancer victims make sudden, full, and unexplained recoveries after sending prayer requests to their churches.

There’s another case in which a Buddhist monk meditated next to a pool of water. Simply by focusing on the water he actually changed its PH level. These are all documented cases. Some people may think I’m loopy, but the evidence is very real. You may not believe me, but the government does. As a matter of fact, the US military spends 4 million dollars to study mind reading. Even since the 1950s we’ve had programs researching phenomenon of this nature.

I recently watched a show on the health channel in which a little girl was kidnapped, stabbed seven times, and thrown into a creek. It was in the middle of winter and it didn’t take long for hypothermia to set in. A worried mother set out on a search for her daughter, who was submerged in ice-cold water, freezing, unable to breathe, and bleeding beneath a bridge. The mother drove over the bridge and then stopped.

Though she had no way of knowing her daughter was down there she knew where to find the little girl. Find her she did, hours after the event. The little girl was dead. Her body had turned gray, ash gray. The mother rushed her to the hospital and called her church. The church began to pray, and by the time the girl got the hospital her color had returned. This girl is alive today. Part of this is because the doctors who operated on her, but undeniably the prayers do seem to have had some kind of effect.

It’s happened, and people consider that proof that God is acting in our lives. It’s not proof, because there are other possibilities-such as the one I just gave. Now, mind you, it still -suggests- that there –may- be a god, but it’s not proof. It is also possible that there’s a logical explanation, however unlikely it may seem.


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Posted 9/4/08

crunchypibb wrote:

Yay, an athiest is considering prayer. Praise Allah (I'm christian btw)
I'll have to admit though, some people are stupid when it comes to prayer like you said, that they pray instead of going to a hospital cause they got no insurance and it's cheap. Of course the best thing is to do both really, it's that obvious. It's not like Jesus hates hospitals.
Anyways, ya prayer can actually help. But you really have to get into it. For those who haven't tried prayer including christians, it's like asking your neighbor for help. Except your neighbor is God and he will help you in the best way he can. He will answer your prayers, most of the time it will be around your best interest but if you ask something like "I wanna be a superstar in Hollywood" it's not gonna happen. In fact something like that can actually be the opposite of beneficial to you.
So next time you hear someone bitch about how God hasn't answered their prayers it's either because it's not time yet or there were better options than what you just asked. If your favorite aunt is dying and you pray for her and she dies, she's probably in heaven so don't complain.


…Are you talking about me? You know, I’m not an atheist. I’m a Christian, and a mystic at that.
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Posted 9/4/08
prayer can help in many situations. many athletes pray before a game or fight to keep them safe,etc

its relaxing to pray before things sometimes
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Posted 9/4/08
Prayer works, it boost my physical and magical attacks.
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Posted 9/4/08

rexxar wrote:

Prayer works, it boost my physical and magical attacks.


Wow, that was absolutely hilarious. Role playing humor is awesome… *Sighs* In the role playing world I get a lot of action. In the real world I couldn’t get laid in a monkey whore house with a sack of bananas.
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What’s my theory? Well, the easiest answer would be to accredit the difference to divine intervention, but that’s a sweeping conclusion. I don’t think that this study necessarily evidences any form of deity or spirit. Secularly speaking, it’s more likely that the people are connecting with each other.

The human consciousness is a very strange thing. Thoughts are the only immaterial thing that can interact with mater. When it comes to the brain we understand how signals are transferred through electrochemical reactions. What we don’t currently comprehend is how the neurons know what we want.

A window breaks. The vibrations hit your ear and are transferred to your brain. An electrochemical signal is shot from your brain and triggers your nerves. Your muscles pump into action. Chemical energy becomes kinetic energy. You move over to the window to see what happened. It’s all very mechanical…except, we –choose- to investigate. A thought is an imaginary concept. It’s not tangible, it’s not located anywhere specific, it doesn’t have mass, it doesn’t have energy, there’s no physical force to a thought whatsoever.

Yet, a thought it was what makes our neuron fire. A thought, an imaginary concept, is causing a very real and physical change. Eventually I’m sure we’ll find a scientific explanation for this. Until then we really don’t have a clue how a mere concept can directly interact with our genetic and biological functions.

Attacking this secularly, I’d theorize that we’re evolutionarily programmed to have some kind of a mental connection to the outside world. I mean, if our thoughts can interact with our brains then why not other physical items? Our brains are completely physical, and they interact with thought.

Hypochondriacs are so paranoid of illness that they begin to have symptoms. In an extreme case a person can literally give themselves a brain tumor simply by constantly fearing that they have one. Their mind interacts with their body. Theoretically, then, why shouldn’t it be possible to interact with somebody else’s body?

The placebo is the most powerful drug available to us right now. Yet, it’s just a sugar pill with no real benefit except the psychological. As you said earlier it makes people think they’re getting better and this increases the likely hood that they really will recover. So, if this is true, then maybe it’s also true that we can help other people recover simply by believing that they will get better.

That would actually explain a lot of things. One example is that we really do have documented events in which a Christian evangelical or preacher heals somebody of a known medical illness. There’ve been several cases where cancer victims make sudden, full, and unexplained recoveries after sending prayer requests to their churches.

There’s another case in which a Buddhist monk meditated next to a pool of water. Simply by focusing on the water he actually changed its PH level. These are all documented cases. Some people may think I’m loopy, but the evidence is very real. You may not believe me, but the government does. As a matter of fact, the US military spends 4 million dollars to study mind reading. Even since the 1950s we’ve had programs researching phenomenon of this nature.

I recently watched a show on the health channel in which a little girl was kidnapped, stabbed seven times, and thrown into a creek. It was in the middle of winter and it didn’t take long for hypothermia to set in. A worried mother set out on a search for her daughter, who was submerged in ice-cold water, freezing, unable to breathe, and bleeding beneath a bridge. The mother drove over the bridge and then stopped.

Though she had no way of knowing her daughter was down there she knew where to find the little girl. Find her she did, hours after the event. The little girl was dead. Her body had turned gray, ash gray. The mother rushed her to the hospital and called her church. The church began to pray, and by the time the girl got the hospital her color had returned. This girl is alive today. Part of this is because the doctors who operated on her, but undeniably the prayers do seem to have had some kind of effect.

It’s happened, and people consider that proof that God is acting in our lives. It’s not proof, because there are other possibilities-such as the one I just gave. Now, mind you, it still -suggests- that there –may- be a god, but it’s not proof. It is also possible that there’s a logical explanation, however unlikely it may seem.




It is interesting if people have the ability to influence the environment around them through their mental strength. Well this goes to my X-men comics statement. Are our supposed mental abilities God given or developed through evolution. I prefer to believe in the latter.
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Posted 9/4/08
Sorry, I don't believe in prayers and I don't invest my time in energy in them. I remember reading a yahoo article last year (I think) and it was about California parents who decided to pray for their dying daughter (who was really young, about 12-ish, I think) instead of taking her to the hospital and she ended up dead. Then the police charged the parents for child negligence (because it's not like there was no way to at least ease the pain for the daughter).
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Posted 9/4/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:

Yay, an athiest is considering prayer. Praise Allah (I'm christian btw)
I'll have to admit though, some people are stupid when it comes to prayer like you said, that they pray instead of going to a hospital cause they got no insurance and it's cheap. Of course the best thing is to do both really, it's that obvious. It's not like Jesus hates hospitals.
Anyways, ya prayer can actually help. But you really have to get into it. For those who haven't tried prayer including christians, it's like asking your neighbor for help. Except your neighbor is God and he will help you in the best way he can. He will answer your prayers, most of the time it will be around your best interest but if you ask something like "I wanna be a superstar in Hollywood" it's not gonna happen. In fact something like that can actually be the opposite of beneficial to you.
So next time you hear someone bitch about how God hasn't answered their prayers it's either because it's not time yet or there were better options than what you just asked. If your favorite aunt is dying and you pray for her and she dies, she's probably in heaven so don't complain.


…Are you talking about me? You know, I’m not an atheist. I’m a Christian, and a mystic at that.


I wasn't refering to anyone in particular but sure you can take my words to heart, if you want. But I just know some people and say they're christian and I'm surprised cause they don't act like one.

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Posted 9/4/08

angelseraphim wrote:

What’s my theory? Well, the easiest answer would be to accredit the difference to divine intervention, but that’s a sweeping conclusion. I don’t think that this study necessarily evidences any form of deity or spirit. Secularly speaking, it’s more likely that the people are connecting with each other.

The human consciousness is a very strange thing. Thoughts are the only immaterial thing that can interact with mater. When it comes to the brain we understand how signals are transferred through electrochemical reactions. What we don’t currently comprehend is how the neurons know what we want.

A window breaks. The vibrations hit your ear and are transferred to your brain. An electrochemical signal is shot from your brain and triggers your nerves. Your muscles pump into action. Chemical energy becomes kinetic energy. You move over to the window to see what happened. It’s all very mechanical…except, we –choose- to investigate. A thought is an imaginary concept. It’s not tangible, it’s not located anywhere specific, it doesn’t have mass, it doesn’t have energy, there’s no physical force to a thought whatsoever.

Yet, a thought it was what makes our neuron fire. A thought, an imaginary concept, is causing a very real and physical change. Eventually I’m sure we’ll find a scientific explanation for this. Until then we really don’t have a clue how a mere concept can directly interact with our genetic and biological functions.

Attacking this secularly, I’d theorize that we’re evolutionarily programmed to have some kind of a mental connection to the outside world. I mean, if our thoughts can interact with our brains then why not other physical items? Our brains are completely physical, and they interact with thought.

Hypochondriacs are so paranoid of illness that they begin to have symptoms. In an extreme case a person can literally give themselves a brain tumor simply by constantly fearing that they have one. Their mind interacts with their body. Theoretically, then, why shouldn’t it be possible to interact with somebody else’s body?

The placebo is the most powerful drug available to us right now. Yet, it’s just a sugar pill with no real benefit except the psychological. As you said earlier it makes people think they’re getting better and this increases the likely hood that they really will recover. So, if this is true, then maybe it’s also true that we can help other people recover simply by believing that they will get better.

That would actually explain a lot of things. One example is that we really do have documented events in which a Christian evangelical or preacher heals somebody of a known medical illness. There’ve been several cases where cancer victims make sudden, full, and unexplained recoveries after sending prayer requests to their churches.

There’s another case in which a Buddhist monk meditated next to a pool of water. Simply by focusing on the water he actually changed its PH level. These are all documented cases. Some people may think I’m loopy, but the evidence is very real. You may not believe me, but the government does. As a matter of fact, the US military spends 4 million dollars to study mind reading. Even since the 1950s we’ve had programs researching phenomenon of this nature.

I recently watched a show on the health channel in which a little girl was kidnapped, stabbed seven times, and thrown into a creek. It was in the middle of winter and it didn’t take long for hypothermia to set in. A worried mother set out on a search for her daughter, who was submerged in ice-cold water, freezing, unable to breathe, and bleeding beneath a bridge. The mother drove over the bridge and then stopped.

Though she had no way of knowing her daughter was down there she knew where to find the little girl. Find her she did, hours after the event. The little girl was dead. Her body had turned gray, ash gray. The mother rushed her to the hospital and called her church. The church began to pray, and by the time the girl got the hospital her color had returned. This girl is alive today. Part of this is because the doctors who operated on her, but undeniably the prayers do seem to have had some kind of effect.

It’s happened, and people consider that proof that God is acting in our lives. It’s not proof, because there are other possibilities-such as the one I just gave. Now, mind you, it still -suggests- that there –may- be a god, but it’s not proof. It is also possible that there’s a logical explanation, however unlikely it may seem.




It is interesting if people have the ability to influence the environment around them through their mental strength. Well this goes to my X-men comics statement. Are our supposed mental abilities God given or developed through evolution. I prefer to believe in the latter.

Holy S*** you wrote a thesis, I took a two second glance and saw the last paragraph. So you're saying there's other ways to have our prayers answered other than through God? I agree but your last paragraph suggests that God may not be the cause. How come? And please keep the details to a minimum, for this debate if I want to know I'll ask.
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Posted 9/4/08
Here's what I think. If you pray, God gives you the opportunity to do something related to what you prayed for, even if you don't realize it.
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Posted 9/4/08

angelseraphim wrote:

It is interesting if people have the ability to influence the environment around them through their mental strength. Well this goes to my X-men comics statement. Are our supposed mental abilities God given or developed through evolution. I prefer to believe in the latter.




Why can’t it be both? Einstein believed that science, logic, and math were the brush, canvas, and colors God used to paint the universe. You know, most of the founding fathers of science weren’t secular and clinical. They were religious and passionate.

Anyway, I can’t say I understand why you’d prefer our minds to originate simply from evolution except perhaps a bias against religion. Wasn’t it Dostoyevsky that said, “Without God everything is permissible, but nothing is meaningful?

Without God we’re just biological robots. To cite my favorite Richard Dawkins’ quote: “We are survival machines-robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes.”

Weinberg wrote:
“The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless.”

Without God people are nothing more than objects. Our thoughts are no different than the AI of a computer. Our emotions are merely chemical reactions. There is no purpose, and existence is hollow.

I understand how somebody can believe this, but not why they would want it to be true.
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