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Are they two sects of the same religion?
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Posted 11/28/07 , edited 12/11/08
The original post was ignorant so I replaced it with an essay I wrote for my college class.

Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Lot, Joseph, and Moses. These seven individuals are many things. They are biblical characters for one. They are historical figures for two, and they are contributors to modern philosophy for three. What most Westerners are unaware of, however, is that they are also Qur’anic prophets.

Islam originally existed as a revolutionized sect of Christianity, and eventually evolved through exegesis and growth to become it’s own religion. Despite this there are still inexorable similarities between both religions. Both speak of a celestial hierarchy, of supernatural entities, of a blissful garden as the birth place of man, and as a deity as the supreme ruler of all existence.

While most Christians are stalwart followers of the bible and its message, Muslims believe this book is flawed. Their cannon of divinely appointed literature is what we call the Qur’an. This being said, much biblical and Qur’anic content is congruent.

One example is that the nineteenth surah of the Qur’an is called Surah-Maryam. The name was chosen in honor of Christ’s mother. This is because Mary is not only the patron saint amongst Catholics, and an honored character amongst protestants, but also a beloved individual in Islam.
A perhaps more profound and powerful example comes in none other than Christ himself.

Muslims and Christians both accept his virgin conception, both believe he lived a sinless life on earth, and both believe he lives a sinless life in heaven. However, only the former accepts his divinity (John 10:30) and the latter denies his crucifixion(Surah 4:157.)

This being said both religions also offer paths to salvation that can only be attained through staunch faith. However, in Christianity faith itself is the saving attribute, but in Islam faith is merely a prerequisite. Faith in God is necessary for submission to him, and this submission leads to morality-and THIS brings salvation.

Surah 23:102 reads: “And those whose scales are heavy [with good deeds]-it is they who are saved.” In contrast, John 3:16 (perhaps the most well memorized verse of the bible,) asserts: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

This being said, while Muslims accept Jesus Christ as a prophet with a divinely inspired message, they deny his status as the son of God. Surah 5:75 reads: “The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger…” The Qur’an further attacks the Christian belief in the “Holy Trinity,” as false, absurd, and polytheistic.

In fact, the Qur’an even says that those who believe in God as a triune entity will reside in hell. Not a page prior to the previously cited surah we find that 5:73 reads: “They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘Allah is the third of three.’”

This is further stressed in the Shahadah of Islam, which states, “La ilaha ill-Allah Muhammad-un Rasulu-llah” or “There is no God but The God, and Muhammad is his messenger.” Surah 112:1 continues, “…He is Allah [who is] one.”

The major misunderstanding Christians hold, according to Muhammad, is in the nature of God. As previously pointed out Islam does not accept the triumvirate rule of divinity, but rather sports a uncompromised monotheism in the purest of forms. However, there are other contradictions found in the varying descriptions of God.

Genesis 1:27 reads: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him…” This suggests that God relates with his creation, and that he even has a sex. However, Muslims disagree. The Qur’anic surah 112:4 reads: “Nor is there to him any equivalent.” So, Allah is immaterial, he is not tangible, and we cannot comprehend him any more than a man born blind can comprehend sight. Allah is like nothing we have ever seen.

We refer to Allah as “he,” or “him,” simply because there is a language barrier. In the Arabic tongue there are no gender neutral words. The closes we can come to saying “IT” is to use a masculine term such as “hoowa,” (he) and a feminine suffix such as “ah.” “Hoowa Allah” is a contradiction and the “ah” cancels the “hoowa.”

So, we know that as far as the nature of God goes, Christians and Muslims disagree on some seriously major issues. The question we come to is: “Are they two images of the same thing?”
Muslims certainly believe they are, but many modern evangelicals, however, have argued against this. On pages sixty-two and sixty-three of his, In Defense of Israel John Hagee argues that Muslims worship the moon. He cites the crescent seen on Muslim complexes such as the Mosque Al-Aqsa as well as their lunar calendar to prove his point.

He further supports this claim with a semantic argument over the origin of the word Allah, which is derived from the Arabic term al-Ilah. Technically al-Ilah translates to “The Deity,” or “The God,” but Hagee draws away from the strict definition and addresses cultural connotation within the roots of this modern title.

Al-Ilah was used by Pre-Islamic Arabs to reference the highest divinity in their pantheon of deities. In the Mecca of Muhammad’s time the Ka’bah, which is now Islam’s holiest sight, was the a cathedral for the polytheists.

The Black Stones within played the center of their worship toward the moon, which they praised with the title “al-Ilah,” although the Moon God's true name was Sin. When Muhammad came he adopted “al-Ilah” as the title for the One True God.

Does this mean that Hagee was right to claim the Muslims worshiped the moon? No, not at all. The Qur’an itself says: “…Prostate not to the sun and the moon, but prostate to Allah who created them.” (41:37) So, Muslims do not worship the moon any more than Christians worship the sun.

The identity of Sin and Allah can also be further separated in that Allah has no rivals with which to struggle for worship. While Sin had a wife and three kids, Allah has no need or desire for a peer or equal. He stands alone, above everything else. We can see that one God is obviously greater than the other, and thus not the same being.

However, this same line of thought can be used to argue that the Islamic God and the Christian God are not the same, even though Muslims believe they are. After all, we just showed that Sin is not Allah because sin had children and a wife. Allah didn’t have any of these, so he can’t be Sin! Yet, the Christian God quite clearly had a child!

Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was made from the dust, like Adam, a mere man, but Christians believe that he was conceived of the holy spirit. Muslims deny that their God had a child (surah 112:3), and yet Christians attest that theirs most certainly did. (Matthew 1:14)
To summaries what we’ve covered so far (where the Christian and Islamic images of God are concerned):

One God saves through faith and obedience, the other through faith alone.

One God begets, the other does not.

One God is a male (arguably,) the other is nothing of the sort.

One God is singular, the other triune.

One is similar to his creation, the other is foreign.

Does this mean that they really aren’t the same divinity? Not necessarily, it just means that there’s a certain amount of uncertainty or at least disagreement in certain aspects of the entity in question. It is actually possible for both of these entities to be the entirely the same and yet completely different.

Historians debate on the death of Alexander. One scholar may say that he was assassinated, another that he died from natural illness, and another that he perished from alcohol poisoning. They all, however, speak of the same person-there’s simply a portion of ambivalence on the person’s identity and experiences.

So, all of these historians believe different things about Alexander, but they're all thinking about the same person. Every human being is made up of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. Does that mean that we're all the same person? No, not at all, just because we're precisely the same on a genetic/elemental scale doesn’t mean that we're one thing! We all still have very separate self-awareness...es.

In short, analyzing the nature of the entity is inconclusive because there’s too much room for interpretation. So, what about the other attack? John Hagee attests that Muslims worship the Moon God, Sin. He supports this by drawing attention to the simple fact that Muslims addressed their God with the same title that pre-Islamic pagans addressed their patron with.

The error to this is that beings are not identified by their title. I could, for example, grow up and name my daughter Alexandria after Alexander the Great. That wouldn’t, however, make my daughter a warmongering imperialistic Greek man with a divinity complex. It wouldn’t make her a tactical genius, it wouldn’t make her Alexander!

Recently I heard a story about two girls who were abandoned by their mother. The twins were found and rescued, and eventually taken in by loving parents. Holly and Diana, the adoptive mothers, were both allowed to name their new children. In what they considered to be literally miraculous, both women named their daughters Mia. Yet, just because they look similar, have the same name, and an identical genetic code doesn’t mean they’re one person. They’re quite clearly two and can interact completely independently of one another.

Just because Allah share’s a title with Sin doesn’t mean he is sin. Just because Allah is the God of a monotheism and Elohim is the God of a monotheism doesn’t mean they’re the same god because they could’ve originated completely separately.

As it stands, Allah isn’t a name for the Islamic deity, and God isn’t a name for the Christian deity.

Actually, Allah is just a one amongst ninety-nine titles used by Muslims to reference specific characteristics of the Islamic God-who has no actual name. Allah simply signifies god as the being with a firm hold godhood. It’s personified as, “the one true god.”

A good analogy might be that we refer to an officer who pulls us over as “The Cop,” knowing very well that his name probably isn’t “The Cop.” We know that one attribute in his life is that he’s a police officer. He has not told us his name, and so we refer to him with terms we know we’ll be able to understand.

Contrasting with Islamic belief, Christians theology teaches that God does have a name and he did reveal it to mankind, specifically to Moses on Mt. Sinai. It is symbolized in what Peter Kreeft described as the “Sacred Tetragrammaton” on page forty-four of his Between Heaven and Hell. Sacred Tetragrammaton? That seems like a bit of a mouthful, so what exactly is it? Simply put, it’s a chain of consonants.

According to Exodus, when Moses asked God for his name God replied with a long lost Hebrew term that was purposefully designed to be spoken only in first person. In other words, you could not use (verbally or in writing) this term without referring to yourself as God. To avoid this blasphemy Moses removed the vowels and left the Tetragrammaton: YHWH.

The trial of this was that oral recitation of the scriptures has ever been a major cornerstone in Judeo/Christian worship and nobody could pronounce YHWH. To get around this boundary early manuscripts substituted it with Elohim, old English bibles replaced it with Jehovah, and most modern bibles use Yahweh.

So, the God's do not actually share a title. I’ve just destroyed Hagee’s argument, which was based on two key-principles. The first is that Allah is the name of the Islamic God. I showed it is not. The second is that deities are defined by the origin of their title. As I’ve shown, this isn’t always true. His argument is null, but I still haven’t provided an answer.

We cannot use image, characteristic, name, or even nature to know if these beings truly are one and the same. So, how do we identify them? Let us say that I have some copper and some tin, and from these I make bronze. I then take that bronze and build a statue. The statue is still the same bronze made from my supply of copper and tin. The bronze and the statue are one and the same, even if we’re identifying them separately.

So, it’s origin that we must rely on. Let us say that I used my copper and tin to make bronze and then borrowed more bronze from a companion. I then used the second supply of bronze to make my statue. Well, my work of art is obviously not the same thing as the former article of bronze.

You see, I’ve already answered the question. Are Allah and Elohim two terms for the same being! Is the Islamic God an alternate interpretation of the Christian God? By origin, yes! As I said earlier: "Islam originally existed as a revolutionized sect of Christianity,"

Allah and al-Ilah-the titles, are one and the same. The beings they reference, however, are not.

What do you think?
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Posted 11/28/07
"The quotes of the Qur’an may be out of context"

You got that right.
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Posted 11/28/07
Who knows. But the bible and quran are written by man ''inspired'' by the person up there. After many years there are bound to have same changes here and there...
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Posted 11/28/07
I guess theyre the same cause it leads back to Abraham. Well thats wgat my english teacher says
Posted 11/28/07
Sorry to say but they aren't two sects of the same religion. The muslims think that christians are pagans and christians hardly know anything on muslims. Not to mention, in Islam, God does not have a son nor has Allah ever been incarnate like in Christianity.
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Posted 11/28/07
Both religions have "beliefs" about certain culturals or skin colours being "bad" which has caused those innocent people to suffer a lot I guess overall, they give a stupid reason for "believers" to act high and mighty for no reason at all. I'm glad the time where Jewish, Blacks etc. were treated bad are in the past...

V Couldn't agree more.
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Posted 11/28/07
IMO, i see both religions being a threat to humanity, both religions have started some major conflicts, gave the ideal that the lighter you are the better you are. Jews and Africans are viewed as the lowest of the low. Those to books, which are said to be the holiest and sacred of things are nothing more than objects tainted by human ideologies and emotions, and not that of the divine.

Remember IMO
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Posted 11/28/07

Nameless4 wrote:

IMO, i see both religions being a threat to humanity, both religions have started some major conflicts, gave the ideal that the lighter you are the better you are. Jews and Africans are viewed as the lowest of the low. Those to books, which are said to be the holiest and sacred of things are nothing more than objects tainted by human ideologies and emotions, and not that of the divine.

Remember IMO



I'm sorry but this bull! Where in the Quran would you find that africans are viewed as lowest of the low? As for the jews in the quran has specified a considerable deal of its verses to talking about Jews, their personal qualities and characteristics. The qur’anic description of Jews is quite impartial; praising them in some occasions where they deserve praise and condemning them in other occasions where they practice blameworthy act, same goes for the christian and muslims.
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Posted 11/28/07
I don't think that Islam and Christianity are exactly "the same religion".

I mean, for one thing, extremist Muslims and extremist Christians basically hate eachother. Not that that means much to the subject, but the two don't even have a relative history together.

In the end, I don't have much of a response to this; besides that it's more or less, yes and no.
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Posted 11/28/07
religion is belief, in the end, all religion is the same cuz they are unified by one goal: to give hope to others and to induced moral on others. it duznt matter if you're christian, muslim or jew, u all follow the religion of religion. i suppose its kinda like how ppl tend to seperate themselves into groups or 'cliques', all those stereotypes like emo or punk, it duznt matter, we're all human, its the same with religion. whether its hinduism or confuscianism or christianity, theyre all religion, thats what humans fail to see, they focus so hard on the differences, they become blind to the similarities
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Posted 11/29/07

Rob-B-hood wrote:

yea, bur christianity tends to be for white/black, islams usually for asians


CRAP dude, 40% of all muslims are Blacks....

And by the way, Islam and Christianity are 2 diffrents things, Islam is not a sect, its a religion that has always existed, Adam was also an muslim (peace be upon him).

Islam = Monotheism, Christianity = Polytheism.

In Judaism, they aknlowedge Islam as an Monotheistic Religion, and Christianity as an False Polytheistic religion, because of the Idol (Jesus), Jesus was an Human being, and making him an God is Polytheism, no doubt about that.
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Posted 11/29/07

anime_otaku-nerd wrote:

Both religions have "beliefs" about certain culturals or skin colours being "bad" which has caused those innocent people to suffer a lot I guess overall, they give a stupid reason for "believers" to act high and mighty for no reason at all. I'm glad the time where Jewish, Blacks etc. were treated bad are in the past...

V Couldn't agree more.


That’s a load of crap. Skin color? No, neither the bible or the Qur’an say that certain people of certain skin colors are evil. Romans 2:11 in the Christian bible says, in fact, “For God does not show favoritism.” Even in the Islamic faith, it does not discriminate against people for skin or culture, but rather for religion. Which, to be fair, is true for not only every religion but every theory about divinity. Atheism, for example, says that religious people are diluted and ignorant of the truth.

Do some research before you base your opinions off of ignorant stereotypes. It just makes you look narrow minded and…well, ignorant.


Nameless4 wrote:

IMO, i see both religions being a threat to humanity, both religions have started some major conflicts, gave the ideal that the lighter you are the better you are. Jews and Africans are viewed as the lowest of the low. Those to books, which are said to be the holiest and sacred of things are nothing more than objects tainted by human ideologies and emotions, and not that of the divine.

Remember IMO


That’s some of the most ignorant crap ever. Neither of these religions even makes specific mention of Africans or skin color. You’re ignorant and wrong, period. Sure, some individuals have used religion as a crutch and tool for misdeeds but the same can be said for ant religion. Look at what atheism has done for abortion, for example-and there have been a happy plethora of serial killers who slaughter because they look at people as biological machines because they do not believe in God.

However, the truth is religion can be used in unfortunate ways. It has and will be used as a tool and a weapon. However, the same thing is true for the lack of religion. All and all, I think that at least the Christian religion (I wouldn’t know about the Muslim religion,) has done more good than harm. It’s instilled a cultural respect of the value of life and others in our (the American culture, and it also brought forth our ideals of liberty, freedom, and equality.) Christian charities spend millions upon millions on mission trips and charities, and the Christian religion-true or false-brings happiness to those who practice it. Ignoring religion, the philosophical value of Christian idealogy is undeniable.

You’re misconception of the Christian religion is childish and foolish. You’re welcome to your ignorant and factually incorrect views, but don’t expect anyone to respect any of the idiotic crap you spew from your mouth. Try cracking open the bible and studying the religion before you start taking shots at it and pretending like it’s a cult of bigots. That’s the KKK, not Christianity-and no, members of the KKK are not Christian, they just claim to be so they can make themselves for glorified and justified.


iliass wrote:


Rob-B-hood wrote:

yea, bur christianity tends to be for white/black, islams usually for asians


CRAP dude, 40% of all muslims are Blacks....

And by the way, Islam and Christianity are 2 diffrents things, Islam is not a sect, its a religion that has always existed, Adam was also an muslim (peace be upon him).

Islam = Monotheism, Christianity = Polytheism.

In Judaism, they aknlowedge Islam as an Monotheistic Religion, and Christianity as an False Polytheistic religion, because of the Idol (Jesus), Jesus was an Human being, and making him an God is Polytheism, no doubt about that.


What the crap? You ignorant little person you! The Christian religion is monotheistic. Do you even know what those words mean? The Christian religion believes in ONE god with THREE personages. The One True God ring a bell?

Anyway, by historical fact, if Adam did live as he is said to have in the Qur’an and the Bible, he was not a Muslim because the Muslim religion did not exist in that time period. It evolved from Christianity and branched off to become it’s own religion long after the crucifixion of Christ.
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Posted 11/29/07
iirc islam was based off of christianity. It's like stepping stones or something

jewish - jesus comes - christianity - muhamed comes - Islam. But islams believe one crucial moment in the bible was wrong which changed a lot of things. but I do not know a lot about the islam religion so if someone could either verify this or shoot it down I would be most appreciative.
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Posted 11/29/07

iliass wrote:


Rob-B-hood wrote:

yea, bur christianity tends to be for white/black, islams usually for asians


CRAP dude, 40% of all muslims are Blacks....

And by the way, Islam and Christianity are 2 diffrents things, Islam is not a sect, its a religion that has always existed, Adam was also an muslim (peace be upon him).

Islam = Monotheism, Christianity = Polytheism.

In Judaism, they aknlowedge Islam as an Monotheistic Religion, and Christianity as an False Polytheistic religion, because of the Idol (Jesus), Jesus was an Human being, and making him an God is Polytheism, no doubt about that.


I'm not terribly fond of christianity, but you sir are a moron.
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Posted 11/29/07
Uranus and Gaia, Allah, God, Brahma... all Gods are one. In my mind anyway. They are the "creators" and all other details are the creation of man.
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