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What if Jesus Didn't Die
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Posted 9/15/08 , edited 9/15/08
I was in class and the teacher started talking about how we romanticize things that are often gory or humiliating, because in truth they were gory and humiliating and how we wouldn't want to remember something that's supposed to be heroic in that manner. Anyways, he eventually went to talking about the Passion and how it needed to be put in that way to put Jesus aside as something different even at death. Regular Crucifixion was humiliating as you were nailed and hung up, screaming to be taken down, while eventually dying from exposure to the elements. At this point I'm thinking "that makes sense" but the point that really got me thinking was :

What if Jesus wasn't crucified but killed in another fashion?

What if he had been hung or decapitated? Would we still romanticize it in another way such as wearing a noose around our necks rather than a cross?

Or worse yet, what if he was publicly drowned or just taken into a corner and run through?

I don't know...

What do u think?
Posted 9/15/08
Oh...if he would have been decapitated, people would wear necklaces with Jesus's body, and his head pending of the body, just tied to the body by a thin cord =O Actually that would look a lot cooler, than the crucifix they have now.

Floetry~
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Posted 9/15/08 , edited 9/15/08

ChaosUnleashed wrote:

I was in class and the teacher started talking about how we romanticize things that are often gory or humiliating, because in truth they were gory and humiliating and how we wouldn't want to remember something that's supposed to be heroic in that manner. Anyways, he eventually went to talking about the Passion and how it needed to be put in that way to put Jesus aside as something different even at death. Regular Crucifixion was humiliating as you were nailed and hung up, screaming to be taken down, while eventually dying from exposure to the elements. At this point I'm thinking "that makes sense" but the point that really got me thinking was :

What if Jesus wasn't crucified but killed in another fashion?

What if he had been hung or decapitated? Would we still romanticize it in another way such as wearing a noose around our necks rather than a cross?

Or worse yet, what if he was publicly drowned or just taken into a corner and run through?

I don't know...

What do u think?


People overrate things, and individuals whenever they are tied to a shocking event.

Example, Kurt Cobain. An overrated singer who committed suicide at the peak of his popularity. Now the overrated artist is even more overrated and blindly worshiped by fans. Another Example is Heart ledger, the very fact he died before Batman was released made people overrate his role as a joker and also made people say this was the best movie ever.

You can also include a lot of poets, artists, and musicians over the course of history.

The case with Jesus is different obviously. This is no overrated matter.
Martyrdom is successful with the masses because it deals with the intensity of a belief. Once the intensity reaches a certain level is very hard for them to focus on the correctness of the belief.

A martyr does not need to have any valuable talent, once that person is martyr people grab on to it.
BUT if the person is talented, wise, and influential, AND become martyr like Jesus, then you have the perfect formula.

We can only speculate what would had happen if Jesus died in a different way. Perhaps Christianity would had experienced a slower growth at the beginning but I'm sure in the long run It would not have made much difference since this belief system has a lot of elements that appeal to people.

Posted 9/15/08 , edited 9/15/08
^ Well sometimes it is better for people to die, before their career starts to crumble, for example Elvis Presley, etc.

So that they will always be remembered as great, and cool. Sometimes death is the best way to become a legend, or to stay a legend.

Ffs, makes me think of suicide, maybe I'll get famous too - the famous student who never did anything, is now worth to be remembered, as the worst student ever! *sees that on her tombstone*

Floetry~
Posted 9/15/08
I really dislike the "thinking" when artists' works worth more when they die. Not to mention, when people pays a lot of money for something that even a 4th grader can do.

Well, times changing...

Nowadays, people can even draw a tattoo of Mona Lisa on someone's skin, but it seems they're less appreciated.

Well, times changing...
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Posted 9/15/08
this is a stupid question
the point is, Jesus didn't drown or got hung or any other death way that u have just said
he died for us on the cross and that's exactly how he died
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Posted 9/15/08

I-Killerbee-I wrote:
... Well sometimes it is better for people to die, before their career starts to crumble....


This made me think, what if all of the "celebrity deaths" are based with what happened to Jesus?..

I mean, Jesus was popular at that time right? Even the Qur'an acknowledged him as a great philosopher. Even the Romans, who crucified him, used the concept he was preaching to expand their territories.

So you really need to be popular first before they cherish your works.. damn...

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Posted 9/15/08
Topic name doesn't completely match subject but whatever. To be perfectly reasonable I think crucifixion in general is a sad and terrible thing. I mean the thing is a torture device, you die slowly from keeping yourself standing up.
True true, Christians do celebrate that Christ died, which is odd when you look at it from a particular point of view. But it was not the process they celebrate but rather what happened after.
Pilot didn't even want the guy to die in the first place but he had to since the crowd made him do it.
If there were other torture methods during that time in Israel I'd be curious to know.
@ChaosUnleashed, anything and I mean ANYTHING can be romanticized. It's like rule 34 and 35 except its not about pr0n.
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Posted 9/16/08
Let's look at it this way, a plant takes 12 months to mature and 3 months to bear fruit.

Say, one day, a farmer planted 500 seedlings. Then, he would use chemical A to enhance the growth of his plants so that they matured 3 months earlier. At the end of the year, he would have 500 plants that bear fruits and only harvested once.

But what if, a farmer planted 500 seedlings. Instead of chemical A, he used chemical B which enhance the growth of his plants so that they matured 6 months earlier. At the end of the year, he would have 500 plants that bear fruits in which he had harvested twice.


From this example, we can see that if the farmer uses different chemical at the start, he would obtain different results.

Linking to the topic, if Jesus had died another way other than cruxification thingy, christians wouldn't be having crufix or having the bible change their way of explaining how he died. In order words, if he had died via hanging, most likely, christian's be seeing hanging as a divine act and ways of excution would be changed.
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Posted 9/16/08
If Jesus had been killed another way, this thread would be asking what it would have been like if he was crucified. ¦0
Posted 9/16/08

pageninetynine wrote:


I-Killerbee-I wrote:
... Well sometimes it is better for people to die, before their career starts to crumble....


This made me think, what if all of the "celebrity deaths" are based with what happened to Jesus?..

I mean, Jesus was popular at that time right? Even the Qur'an acknowledged him as a great philosopher. Even the Romans, who crucified him, used the concept he was preaching to expand their territories.

So you really need to be popular first before they cherish your works.. damn...



Meh, there are a lot of artists whose works got famous only after they died. :)

Floetry~
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Posted 9/16/08
According to the late Dr. Ahmed Deedat's book "Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction?", Jesus never died from crucifixion, with quotes and stuff from the Bible. It's a good read, and probably merits a topic here, if the subject matter was a little shorter.
I think there are links to read it for free online though, not sure...
Posted 9/16/08
^ there is also a theory that the way the Christians represent his crucifixion is not entirely true, because if they really nailed his hands, then that would be strange, as the join between the hand and the arm is not strong enough to take the whole weight of the body..or something like that D:

Floetry~


Posted 9/16/08

I-Killerbee-I wrote:

^ there is also a theory that the way the Christians represent his crucifixion is not entirely true, because if they really nailed his hands, then that would be strange, as the join between the hand and the arm is not strong enough to take the whole weight of the body..or something like that D:

Floetry~




He also got nailed on his feet and there are some pictures or altars where there's a small base for his nailed feet to step on.
During the holy event, folks in the Philippines crucify themselves as a way to penitence for their sins. I never seen one in real life, only on TVs and newspapers.
Posted 9/16/08

whatsome wrote:


I-Killerbee-I wrote:

^ there is also a theory that the way the Christians represent his crucifixion is not entirely true, because if they really nailed his hands, then that would be strange, as the join between the hand and the arm is not strong enough to take the whole weight of the body..or something like that D:

Floetry~




He also got nailed on his feet and there are some pictures or altars where there's a small base for his nailed feet to step on.
During the holy event, folks in the Philippines crucify themselves as a way to penitence for their sins. I never seen one in real life, only on TVs and newspapers.


Well, I know that his feet got nailed, too, I was just referring to the instability of the hand joint.
Yeah, I heard it, and saw it on TV, it's a little crazy if you ask me...how can one be so devoted to "Jesus" >_> They must be all on crack

Floetry~
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