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What if Jesus Didn't Die
Posted 9/16/08 , edited 9/16/08

I-Killerbee-I wrote:


whatsome wrote:


I-Killerbee-I wrote:

^ there is also a theory that the way the Christians represent his crucifixion is not entirely true, because if they really nailed his hands, then that would be strange, as the join between the hand and the arm is not strong enough to take the whole weight of the body..or something like that D:

Floetry~




He also got nailed on his feet and there are some pictures or altars where there's a small base for his nailed feet to step on.
During the holy event, folks in the Philippines crucify themselves as a way to penitence for their sins. I never seen one in real life, only on TVs and newspapers.


Well, I know that his feet got nailed, too, I was just referring to the instability of the hand joint.
Yeah, I heard it, and saw it on TV, it's a little crazy if you ask me...how can one be so devoted to "Jesus" >_> They must be all on crack

Floetry~

Well, have you heard the term "putting yourself in someone else's shoe."
Besides crucifying themselves for penitence, they also doing it to experience what JC had gone through [even if it's a slim resemblance of the total outlook].
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Posted 9/16/08

I-Killerbee-I wrote:


whatsome wrote:


I-Killerbee-I wrote:

^ there is also a theory that the way the Christians represent his crucifixion is not entirely true, because if they really nailed his hands, then that would be strange, as the join between the hand and the arm is not strong enough to take the whole weight of the body..or something like that D:

Floetry~




He also got nailed on his feet and there are some pictures or altars where there's a small base for his nailed feet to step on.
During the holy event, folks in the Philippines crucify themselves as a way to penitence for their sins. I never seen one in real life, only on TVs and newspapers.


Well, I know that his feet got nailed, too, I was just referring to the instability of the hand joint.
Yeah, I heard it, and saw it on TV, it's a little crazy if you ask me...how can one be so devoted to "Jesus" >_> They must be all on crack

Floetry~


I agree.. It's just like when satanists begins to eat people(In reference on a topic here in CR) They're bringing their obsessions of their religion to a crazy level. I mean, are there even verses on the bible that mentions something about crucifying yourself(or punishing yourself) as a sure way to be forgiven? Suicide is a sin and I think hurting yourself is one too..
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Posted 9/16/08

h4x0rz wrote:

According to the late Dr. Ahmed Deedat's book "Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction?", Jesus never died from crucifixion, with quotes and stuff from the Bible. It's a good read, and probably merits a topic here, if the subject matter was a little shorter.
I think there are links to read it for free online though, not sure...


IT'S YOU AGAIN!!!
Let's put it this way. Even if written history was wrong, would that itself have changed the real events it tries to refer to?
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Posted 9/16/08
Do you think it is possible for Christianity to be like the Christianity now if no one persecuted Jesus? I think that it will be a different Christianity.
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Posted 9/16/08

crunchypibb wrote:


h4x0rz wrote:

According to the late Dr. Ahmed Deedat's book "Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction?", Jesus never died from crucifixion, with quotes and stuff from the Bible. It's a good read, and probably merits a topic here, if the subject matter was a little shorter.
I think there are links to read it for free online though, not sure...


IT'S YOU AGAIN!!!
Let's put it this way. Even if written history was wrong, would that itself have changed the real events it tries to refer to?


not just quotes from the Bible though, even scientific and medical facts are included, Give it a read if possible. I wish I could post it here, but I left my copy in my parent's place in Dubai.
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Posted 9/17/08
Jesus is Jesus, people's imaginary about jesus will still be stronger from what it really is. I think the denial will be strong enough to keep most people's faith.
We believe what we wanted to believe.
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Posted 9/17/08

(deleted account) wrote:

Why would a high school teacher, assuming that your age is really 16, even be talking about Jesus in the first place?

As much as I want to defend Christ and such, public schools, assuming there is where you go, shouldn't even be mentioning Christ, unless it involves with something with sociological evolution and such.

My answer is that Christ's death was predicted long before He was born in this world. Maybe His death was predestined or self fulfilling, but nonetheless He died on the cross, as some historical text tells us.

We don't really know what would have happened if His death was something else, nor will we ever know, so in turn, it doesn't really matter.


Yes, i'm 16 and i go to a private school (which sucks) and the teachers talk about religion. The thing is predicting a death, even in the bible, is like predicting the sun will rise. I put this topic up because I thought that it might be an interesting topic that people might have different views on.

Posted 9/17/08 , edited 9/17/08
Luke 23-

20 Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again.

21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

22 For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."

23 But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified,and their shouts prevailed.

24 So Pilate decided to grant their demand.

25 He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will

33 When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left.

34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing..."

46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

My PROOF!
Posted 9/17/08
***** Just to show I am a Christian and I do believe he died for us.
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Posted 9/21/08
i'm not saying that he didn't die for us but if or how we would romanticize his death if it wasn't by crucifixion
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Posted 9/24/08 , edited 9/24/08

ChaosUnleashed wrote:

I was in class and the teacher started talking about how we romanticize things that are often gory or humiliating, because in truth they were gory and humiliating and how we wouldn't want to remember something that's supposed to be heroic in that manner. Anyways, he eventually went to talking about the Passion and how it needed to be put in that way to put Jesus aside as something different even at death. Regular Crucifixion was humiliating as you were nailed and hung up, screaming to be taken down, while eventually dying from exposure to the elements. At this point I'm thinking "that makes sense" but the point that really got me thinking was :

What if Jesus wasn't crucified but killed in another fashion?

What if he had been hung or decapitated? Would we still romanticize it in another way such as wearing a noose around our necks rather than a cross?

Or worse yet, what if he was publicly drowned or just taken into a corner and run through?

I don't know...

What do u think?


Would we romanticize his death if he had been hung or decapitated? Next time you get a chance, stop by at a Catholic Cathedral and look around. You’re likely to see the image of a saint carrying his own head. I believe that would be Paul-but saints aren’t my specialty.

The point is that early Christians were ironically the victims of genocide. They were being gathered and executed in mass. These Christians were killed in many ways. The most graphic case I can immediately think of tells us about a young Christian woman who was arrested.

Two Roman soldiers beat her all day, trying to get her to denounce Christ. She refused. By the time the soldiers were too tired to continue she wasn’t in condition to talk. So, they stuffed her into a sack full of metal shards and broken glass. They kicked her around a bit and then tied the sack to the back of a bull. Then, they prodded the bull and threw it into a fit so that it would trample the woman to death.

This, however, was a very extreme case. Most Christians of the times were either crucified or decapitated. You see Roman law was very prejudiced in favor of its own citizens. Whenever a Roman citizen was executed he was simply decapitated. It’s a quick and relatively painless way to die.

However, illegal immigrants and part-time residence of Rome were crucified. The saint I was talking about earlier was a Roman citizen. So, when he refused to denounce Christ he was decapitated. Other Catholic saints are pictured as being crucified or martyred in other ways.

So, to get back to your question: “What if Jesus was executed by hanging or decapitation, would we romanticize that?”

Well, historically speaking we know he wasn’t hung or decapitated because he wasn’t born in Rome. He wasn’t a Roman citizen and so he would’ve been crucified or tortured to death. However, assuming that he had been hung or decapitated, yes we would’ve romanticized that.

We’ve romanticized plainer deaths. Look at Alexander the Great, who died of an illness in bed. There are so many legends surrounding his simple death that many historians are flatly boggled. Some people say that he died from too much drinking. Some say he died from being poisoned. Truth to be told, however, Alexander was in an area where common viruses were being spread and it’s almost certain that he simply died of natural illness.

Decapitation is easy to romanticize, and if you’ve ever seen a movie about the Salem Witch Trials you’ll realize that death by hanging is also easy to romanticize. Really, almost any death is. Elvis died while on the toilet.

Any time a loved public figure dies we romanticize it. This is inexorably our nature, with some exceptions under certain circumstances. (Take, for example, that most people are unaware that there were thousands of Greeks at Thermopylae, not three hundred. The Spartans were the strongest, so their fame drowned out the fame of the other warriors who also fought to their death.)

I believe Christ died for our sins. Honestly though, I think he could’ve died an old man and his legacy would be just as large as it is today.


ChaosUnleashed wrote:

i'm not saying that he didn't die for us but if or how we would romanticize his death if it wasn't by crucifixion


So, in conclusion, I don’t think it would’ve changed much anything at all. The cross wouldn’t be such a major symbol, but instead something else would. A noose, a whip, something to show that he was chastised.



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Posted 9/24/08
well in our religion (islam) Jesus wasn't killed, wasn't crucified, it's GOD who raised him to the sky.
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Posted 9/24/08
Haha jesus is the best
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Posted 9/24/08
Well if Jesus didn't die on the cross, people wouldn't really have believed he was the Messiah.

Let's not mention the fact that the symbolism behind a crucifixion has existed far before Christianity.
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Posted 9/24/08
the crucifixion of Jesus changes nothing millions of people were crucified by the romans as punishment for treason against the empire
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