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Texan ignites gun control debate
Posted 2/19/08
Unless the burglar is deliberately
trying to harm them
then I dont see the need for needing
to shoot him..

But then again you may never know their intentions..

touchy subject.
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Posted 2/19/08

hq145 wrote:

I was watching the news (a rarity for me) when I saw this bit about a Texan that saw two men breaking into his neighbor's house. He called the police to alert them to the burglary then said "I have a shot gun, do you want me to stop them?"

The police said not to leave his house or put himself in danger. The police had not yet arrived and the men were leaving the house with the items they had stolen. Then he told the police that he wasn't going to let them get away with it and ignored further instructions not to leave his house, going out and quickly shooting both men. "I had to do it, they came onto my lawn" he said. One man was in the neighbors front lawn and the other was in the street.

This man is not being charged with anything and city officials are calling him a hero. I think this is horrid, and the man obviously wanted to kill those men. But that might just be me. Here's the link to the clip I saw:

http://tinyurl.com/33q4e3 ( BBC News )
*Shortened your link because it was stretching the page =) -mauz15-

It is legal in the US to shoot intruders, as far as I know. But when it's done with such intent it undermines our right to bear arms. So what do you think? Justifiable or not?


i think its justifiable because we have a right to life, liberty and property. he was defending someone's property from thieves, i'll call him a hero too. he is a vigilante, who stopped to serve justice when it was necassary, instead of letting them get away with the crime and possibly not even getting caught later. if anything, that is why we have the right to keep and bear arms in the first place, to defend ourselves and others from clear threats such as the two burglars.

as for gun laws, its different for each state, though texas and the south are notorious for lax gun controls.
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Posted 2/19/08
I think they should just research the case more and if that guy shows any sign of racism he should be charged for murder (those burglars were black) but if hes all normal and stuff he probably did it for good
Posted 2/19/08
There are something like 2 million defensive uses of a firearm every year in the US. In the vast majority of those, something like this case does not happen. (Most of the time, the criminal just runs away.)

So, even if you think this case is horrible and unjust, well that's 1 bad defensive use of a gun, only 1,999,999 more cases you need to look at to evaluate whether guns should be banned!

Seriously, saying that guns should be banned simply for something like this is like saying that cars should be banned just because one guy drives drunk and kills someone, and that's even assuming that this incident isn't justified.
Posted 2/19/08
these men who steal from homes probley have hurt ppl well robing them and would most likely continue to
they probley deserved to be shot dead
the mans actions who shot them were to far though he only had to shot in the air or yell stop
he had no real reason for killing them
Posted 2/19/08
Actually american law states if one who should not / or is not wanted on ur property enters ur property u may shoot them if u first shoot a warning shot or they shoot first,
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Posted 2/19/08
Do they still have duels in Texas?
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Posted 2/19/08
I don't think he should have shot them, I don't think he should have a gun (I'll talk about this one below) He should have just told what they looked like, car etc. and then let the police handle it even if they came hours later. The police need to be better yeah I will agree but it's hard for them (not going to give examples or reasons). Just becasue a person is stealing doesn't mean they deserve to die that is alittle harsh. I would also disagree with him holding them there with the gun, it wouldn't have turned out well I think. Also the fact that they are of any race doesn't matter.

By one person having a gun everyone else feels like they need one but if everybody has one, what happnes if people team up on me I need a better or more guns. And the police cannot handle this at all, it's not their fault but they need to get better. Really if nobody had a gun I think less people would think they need one. Also there are other problems that are raised like,

In Canada where I live(WOOO CANADA) guns from the US come from the border (drugs too up and down though) and are in the hands of lawbreakers or gangs or crimals. And the average person can't get a gun (even a handgun, while the other people have automatci weapons) And the police can't handle it and it's not thier fault.

With guns comes an increase in crime or increase of violent crimes.
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Posted 2/19/08
Funny how people call people like him a "hero" yet if the police did the same thing and shot people that did not pose a threat they would be hassled by the media and the population for abusing their power.

I didn't know that the punishment for theft was the capital punishment? So this person surpasses the law in authority? He has the right to judge who has the right to live and who doesn't?

Guess it shows how intelligent Texans are, they don't have to waste money on useless things like judges, policemen, or the justice system. Everyone just has to carry their own guns and shoot anyone who wrongs them for whatever reason.
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Posted 2/20/08

Simplicity95 wrote:

Actually american law states if one who should not / or is not wanted on ur property enters ur property u may shoot them if u first shoot a warning shot or they shoot first,


thats is not a American law that is a Texas law here in New Jersey you can not shoot them unless u your another are in DIRECT harm at the time
Posted 2/20/08

Sleepneeded127 wrote:


Simplicity95 wrote:

Actually american law states if one who should not / or is not wanted on ur property enters ur property u may shoot them if u first shoot a warning shot or they shoot first,


thats is not a American law that is a Texas law here in New Jersey you can not shoot them unless u your another are in DIRECT harm at the time

Really cause in New hamshire it is counted as protecting property.... well i guess it changes for the state

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Posted 2/20/08

Simplicity95 wrote:


Sleepneeded127 wrote:


Simplicity95 wrote:

Actually american law states if one who should not / or is not wanted on ur property enters ur property u may shoot them if u first shoot a warning shot or they shoot first,


thats is not a American law that is a Texas law here in New Jersey you can not shoot them unless u your another are in DIRECT harm at the time

Really cause in New hamshire it is counted as protecting property.... well i guess it changes for the state



it does change with each state
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Posted 2/20/08
It would be good if we know more of the story before jumping into conclusions. What exactly happened when that neighbour went to confront those 2 robbers? Could something have endangered him that he was forced to use a weapon or did he shot the robbers without a warning shot so as to surrender and drop the stolen items?

Regarding what you think its right or wrong.I ask you this one important question, who do u prefer in peace times, the police or soldier?

PS: Police will hope to settle the matter as peacefully as possible without the assailant being hurt as well. Soldiers kill before asking questions.
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Posted 2/20/08

Northboundsnow wrote:

It would be good if we know more of the story before jumping into conclusions. What exactly happened when that neighbour went to confront those 2 robbers? Could something have endangered him that he was forced to use a weapon or did he shot the robbers without a warning shot so as to surrender and drop the stolen items?

Regarding what you think its right or wrong.I ask you this one important question, who do u prefer in peace times, the police or soldier?

PS: Police will hope to settle the matter as peacefully as possible without the assailant being hurt as well. Soldiers kill before asking questions.



(CBS) The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?
" the dispatcher responded.

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this ----."

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

"I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don’t go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

"I don’t want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

"No, I don’t want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

"I can’t see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn’t know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.

Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?
"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don'
t do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside
."

On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

Then Horn is back on the phone:

"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the --- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."


Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

Horn: "No, no, no."

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

Yelling is heard.

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."


I fail to see how his actions were necessary, especially since the police have already arrived by the time he shot the burglars. He also ignored repeated warnings from the 911 dispatcher not to leave the house and not to take action. He also seems to be enjoying himself with his use of words during the shooting.
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Posted 2/20/08

hq145 wrote:

I was watching the news (a rarity for me) when I saw this bit about a Texan that saw two men breaking into his neighbor's house. He called the police to alert them to the burglary then said "I have a shot gun, do you want me to stop them?"

The police said not to leave his house or put himself in danger. The police had not yet arrived and the men were leaving the house with the items they had stolen. Then he told the police that he wasn't going to let them get away with it and ignored further instructions not to leave his house, going out and quickly shooting both men. "I had to do it, they came onto my lawn" he said. One man was in the neighbors front lawn and the other was in the street.

This man is not being charged with anything and city officials are calling him a hero. I think this is horrid, and the man obviously wanted to kill those men. But that might just be me. Here's the link to the clip I saw:

http://tinyurl.com/33q4e3 ( BBC News )
*Shortened your link because it was stretching the page =) -mauz15-

It is legal in the US to shoot intruders, as far as I know. But when it's done with such intent it undermines our right to bear arms. So what do you think? Justifiable or not?


I still chuckle when I read this.
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