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Will you join me to walk to heaven?
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23 / F / philippines
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Posted 9/18/08
i believe in god.
it's all there is to everything...
afterall, it's me, they may walk or pass by,but no other people can live my own life...

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Andromeda
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Posted 9/19/08 , edited 9/19/08
Who can forgive sins?
The God. right?

If so, the God need not to sacrifice his son(as thou sayest) to forgive you...
There are easier ways than that
IF the God couldn't save his son (as thou sayest "he was crucified")
then will the God save you...when you just pray..

Glory to Allah(the god) (He is free) from the things you ascribe (To Him)!



Jesus will come


Yes he will , but he is no more than a Messenger; who worships the god...and called (men) to do that...

[5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

[5: 117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.



[5:75] Al-Masih, the son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

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digs 
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Posted 9/19/08

Real_ZERO wrote:

Who can forgive sins?
The God. right?

If so, the God need not to sacrifice his son(as thou sayest) to forgive you...
There are easier ways than that
IF the God couldn't save his son (as thou sayest "he was crucified")
then will the God save you...when you just pray..

Glory to Allah(the god) (He is free) from the things you ascribe (To Him)!



Jesus will come


Yes he will , but he is no more than a Messenger; who worships the god...and called (men) to do that...

[5:116] And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

[5: 117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.



[5:75] Al-Masih, the son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!



Yes, God does forgive sins. But you must understand what it means to forgive. If God merely said "it's ok to sin because I forgive you" He would be forgetting His Laws. God cannot just turn a blind eye to sin because He is Holy. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in* Christ Jesus our Lord. What the Bible means by death, is spiritual death. Spiritual death is hell. The Good News is that the Gift of God is eternal life, which is not physical immortality, but rather life itself. This verse talks about when you die, you either die (hell) or receive eternal life (heaven)

Please explain to me how there is an easier way and why God did not have to Sacrifice His Son for you and me. what I understand is that sin is a creation of man and demons. We have been given free will, and through our free will we chose to create sin. God is perfect and Holy, and because of this, He cannot have sine in His presence. If God could just be ok with sin, then He would no longer be Holy. Jesus is God. And Jesus as God chose to live among men as a man, the Messiah that has been prophesied about by the ancient Jewish prophets (Jesus did fulfill the prophecies to their very words, and not just a few, but all of them) Because the penalty of sin is death (death being hell and hell being separation from God and judgment for sins) someone had to pay that penalty. Which leads me to your third question.

"IF the God couldn't save his son (as thou sayest "he was crucified")
then will the God save you...when you just pray.."

God did save you! In fact, He save you at His own expense! Think about it, what we deserve as humans is death and eternal separation from God. We are flawed, and with our free will we willingly accept and choose to create more imperfections (sin) God as the perfect and Holy being cannot have imperfections (sin) in his presence. God Loves us so much that He provided a way out for us. Jesus is God the Son. And Jesus chose to live as a man and go through all the temptations that humans go through. Because Jesus is God, Jesus is perfect, and Jesus never sinned. Jesus is perfect and sinless, yet chose to bear our punishment on the cross. He died the death that we deserve. Please understand this, God Loves you extremely, more than we as humans can comprehend. God is perfect, and the Bible even says that "God is love" in 1John 4:8. God is perfect, and His love is perfect. Jesus has the authority to forgive sins, because he already paid the price. On the cross, Jesus willingly chose to bear all the sins of the world (past present and future) and God turned His face from Him. God the Father turned His back against Jesus Christ (who IS God the Son) Jesus experienced hell, the separation from God the Father, He was forsaken because He took upon Himself the sins of the world. Jesus paid or price, all we have to do is repent of our sins, and because Jesus has paid the price, we may be forgiven. That is how forgiveness works. And forgiveness comes through repentance before Jesus, the Son of God. Repentance is turning from our sins and acknowledging them and not doing them again. Jesus loves us, and because He loves us He pours out His Grace on us (Grace is undeserved love) This is how forgiveness and salvation work.
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Andromeda
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Posted 9/19/08 , edited 9/19/08
It's not like that...

the God merely said "it's ok to sin because I forgive you"

aslo, it will be not o.k. to sin because

Jesus willingly chose to bear all the sins of the world (past present and future)



Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in* Christ Jesus our Lord. What the Bible means by death, is spiritual death. Spiritual death is hell. The Good News is that the Gift of God is eternal life, which is not physical immortality, but rather life itself

the ways of forgiven are different amoung the religions..
4 example for Jews
[2:54] And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: so turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.


My Point is why Jesus (peace be upon him) bear your sins...

The God is The Utterly Just...and that's impossible..


Why Jesus (pease be upon him) died for your sins...
( If someone did sin. Isn't his fault...then he should bear his own burdens...and seek forgiveness from the God)
then since Jesus died for your sins...
until the end of this world... you and the next comming christians will do what they want since their sins were forgiven 'coz of Jesus.



you either die (hell) or receive eternal life (heaven)

No doubt



Please explain to me how there is an easier way and why God did not have to Sacrifice His Son for you and me.



Because the God is, who does forgive sins
an Alms, a pray, and even just Ask forgiveness from him are the ways of forgiveness
(no need 2 involve the sinless Jesus with ur sins)


what I understand is that sin is a creation of man and demons. We have been given free will, and through our free will we chose to create sin. God is perfect and Holy, and because of this, He cannot have sine in His presence. If God could just be ok with sin, then He would no longer be Holy.

agree...


Jesus is God. And Jesus as God chose to live among men as a man, the Messiah that has been prophesied about by the ancient Jewish prophets (Jesus did fulfill the prophecies to their very words, and not just a few, but all of them) Because the penalty of sin is death (death being hell and hell being separation from God and judgment for sins) someone had to pay that penalty. Which leads me to your third question.


Are you make a joke of me?
If Jesus is God,
what's that god if he's killed or died or crucified?

A god with no power...



God did save you! In fact, He save you at His own expense! Think about it, what we deserve as humans is death and eternal separation from God. We are flawed, and with our free will we willingly accept and choose to create more imperfections (sin) God as the perfect and Holy being cannot have imperfections (sin) in his presence. God Loves us so much that He provided a way out for us. Jesus is God the Son. And Jesus chose to live as a man and go through all the temptations that humans go through. Because Jesus is God, Jesus is perfect, and Jesus never sinned. Jesus is perfect and sinless, yet chose to bear our punishment on the cross. He died the death that we deserve. Please understand this, God Loves you extremely, more than we as humans can comprehend. God is perfect, and the Bible even says that "God is love" in 1John 4:8. God is perfect, and His love is perfect. Jesus has the authority to forgive sins, because he already paid the price. On the cross, Jesus willingly chose to bear all the sins of the world (past present and future) and God turned His face from Him. God the Father turned His back against Jesus Christ (who IS God the Son) Jesus experienced hell, the separation from God the Father, He was forsaken because He took upon Himself the sins of the world. Jesus paid or price, all we have to do is repent of our sins, and because Jesus has paid the price, we may be forgiven. That is how forgiveness works. And forgiveness comes through repentance before Jesus, the Son of God. Repentance is turning from our sins and acknowledging them and not doing them again. Jesus loves us, and because He loves us He pours out His Grace on us (Grace is undeserved love) This is how forgiveness and salvation work.


Mr. digs...
I know that the god is the powerful and The Preserver...
I asked you from ur view ( Jews or Whoever are crucified Jesus)...or he chose in his own to die,,

I believe that the god save him.

btw, Did you never have a small clash with your father...?


The Jesus would did if he had a father, and that may cause a confusion in both heavens and earth..if he and his father are the god.(I didn't know what I use IS or ARE )
Even a small country couldn't be ruled by king and his own son... the whole world as well

I don't understand why you are keeping involve the Holy god [Glory to him] in human system(family: father, son ) !?





Jesus willingly chose to bear all the sins of the world (past present and future)


That's unfair, impossible... and falsity,,,
That's why the massacres,wars covered the world !
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digs 
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Posted 9/19/08
What? I never said it was ok to sin. You even changed my quote. I said "If God" not "The God." It is never ok to sin, and I never said it was. Please don't miss quote me or take things out of context.

Please don't quote the Koran when talking about Jewish law... Please quote from the Torah (Or Tenak) because that is accurate and what Jews believe (I also believe in the Old Testament)

I explained why Jesus bore our sins, it's because He loves us more than you can imagine. I really don't think you comprehend what Jesus did on the cross. He is God, but He chose out of His own free will to die for our sins.

I explained in my post why Jesus needed to for our sins, forgiveness is not turning a blind eye, and God has set a punishment for sins. Jesus came to bear that punishment and atone for all of the sins of the past, present, and future. All we have to do is accept the free gift od salvation and repent before Jesus,

Yes, what happened to Jesus is unfair, but He did it for us. Jesus did all this because He loves us and wanted to offer a way out of judgment for our sins.

Jesus has power, again, He chose to be crucified. So that we may be saved (please really read my previous post, it explains why Jesus had to die for our sins)

As a Christian, I believe in the Holy Trinity. The Trinity is God the Son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. It is extremely hard to comprehend 3 in 1 with a human mind. And the human mind wants to take the Trinity as 1+1+1=3. In reality (and this is not properly explaining it, this is just an illustration) it 1x1x1=1. God the Father is not God the Son, and the Son is not the Father, nor are they the Holy Spirit. Yet they are all One, and they are all God.

I hope you don't take offense to my post, and I mean no personal attacks, I am just sharing my views.
Posted 9/19/08
REPORTED FOR BEING STUPID!!!
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Andromeda
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Posted 9/19/08

digs wrote:

What? I never said it was ok to sin. You even changed my quote. I said "If God" not "The God." It is never ok to sin, and I never said it was. Please don't miss quote me or take things out of context.

I really didn't intend that...
I used to write my post in Notpad before...alongs with ur post,,, may I miss up. sorry

What I mean


If God merely said "it's ok to sin because I forgive you" He would be forgetting His Laws

also

If God merely said "it's ok to sin because


Jesus willingly chose to bear all the sins of the world (past present and future)


" He would be forgetting His Laws

"the justice"



Please don't quote the Koran when talking about Jewish law... Please quote from the Torah (Or Tenak)


heheh

Mr. digs requested me to quote from the Torah... while I read this

[5:46]Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: "We hear and we disobey";


sorry, I can't trust them since they killed Jesus peace be upon him ....

Since Moses, Jesus and Mohammad peace be upon them...are Prophets and Messengers from the God,,
Everyone confirming the Law (which came) before him, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after him... I can use the Quran even about Jews..



[61: 6] And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said, "This is evident sorcery!"

[7:157] Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

The Quran has many narratives since Adam,, Great, better than time travel machine!
Say who could tell the unlettered Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him about previous generations' stories except the god.?


I hope you don't take offense to my post, and I mean no personal attacks, I am just sharing my views.

This is not a battle..relax

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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 9/19/08 , edited 9/19/08
All of you... shut up.

If you want to evangelize people, do it in a private group ~ otherwise, you're just going to start flame wars left and right.







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