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Posted 9/19/08

accw wrote:

anyone know HDB under who?


The Housing and Development Board is the statutory board of the Ministry of National Development responsible for public housing in Singapore.

answers your question?
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Hoy
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Posted 9/19/08
The citizens are trained to let PAP handle everything and not make any criticism about the decision they make. Its not like they listen to what we have to say anyway...

In the long term, what will happen to Singapore? Now government at least still got some economic capability, what about 20 years from now? Will the PAP still be as capable as it is now...?

I believed that the only thing that can truly ensure the long term survival of a country is real democracy together with a proper education for everyone in the country to make sure they will make the correct decision.

To me, we are actually going the opposite way of all i believed in.
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Posted 9/22/08

Hoy wrote:

The citizens are trained to let PAP handle everything and not make any criticism about the decision they make. Its not like they listen to what we have to say anyway...

In the long term, what will happen to Singapore? Now government at least still got some economic capability, what about 20 years from now? Will the PAP still be as capable as it is now...?

I believed that the only thing that can truly ensure the long term survival of a country is real democracy together with a proper education for everyone in the country to make sure they will make the correct decision.

To me, we are actually going the opposite way of all i believed in.


what is real democracy? even the US, "champion" of the ideology, doesnt practice democracy in its purest sense.

and what does proper education constitute? Are we talking in terms of voting as the correct decision?
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Posted 9/22/08
wahh sei so political sia..i don't even know who is our president when i'm in secondary school LOL
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Hoy
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Posted 9/22/08

shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:

The citizens are trained to let PAP handle everything and not make any criticism about the decision they make. Its not like they listen to what we have to say anyway...

In the long term, what will happen to Singapore? Now government at least still got some economic capability, what about 20 years from now? Will the PAP still be as capable as it is now...?

I believed that the only thing that can truly ensure the long term survival of a country is real democracy together with a proper education for everyone in the country to make sure they will make the correct decision.

To me, we are actually going the opposite way of all i believed in.


what is real democracy? even the US, "champion" of the ideology, doesnt practice democracy in its purest sense.

and what does proper education constitute? Are we talking in terms of voting as the correct decision?


I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system. I understand ideal situations of 'real' democratic society are perhaps impossible to achieve but we should work towards it. When i say real democracy, what i meant is to be able to vote freely and fairly. And what exactly is free and fair? Freedom of political expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press is essential for a fair election, a citizen must be well informed to place his vote to his best interest. Otherwise, it would be unfair for the ill-informed citizen to place his vote. And for voting to be free, citizen should be allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly.

Maybe proper is the wrong word... I am actually just trying to say that everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...

Well, I am not a political student, i am a computing student, so I could be wrong inside out, I'm just voicing my opinion, pls correct me if i am wrong.
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Posted 9/22/08 , edited 9/22/08

Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:



I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system...what exactly is free and fair ... And for voting to be free ... allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly...everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...


unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD
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Posted 9/22/08
sia la..why you guys know so much..man i got to read the news to post here then..dammit
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Posted 9/22/08

MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:



unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD


LOL.... why the statements about not being law students or just a computing student? You don't need to be a political science or law student to take an active interest in politics and government. Every one should have some degree of knowledge about the people they elect to direct their futures, both on the local and international stage. Or that's my opinion anyway, even though my knowledge is quite limited... oh no... I feel so hypocritical now.

One point, primary school is not exactly enough to guarantee a white collar job, but then, not every one can have jobs of that level. Again, I like definitions, so how do you define decent? By income level? By the degree of knowledge needed for the job? If every one had decent jobs, then who would take up the "indecent" jobs? More foreign workers?

Another thing, I do agree about subsidies... but at the same time, such financial aid does exist through other agents (e.g. self-help groups) than the government, some of them partially funded by the government. We are not a welfare state, and the government does not want to portray itself as an atm machine. It's also part of the de-politicizing of aid, so that different groups will not find themselves being treated unfairly by the government. Moreover, if it does subsidize, there should be some criteria involved, like grades or cca involvement. If not, then it'd be a waste of resources for people who would want to drop out anyway. The primary school compulsory education is to ensure that every Singaporean has a basic level of education, especially literacy. It's not so much to ensure a decent job, but to ensure that they can get a job, and be able to access some information needed for daily life.
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Posted 9/22/08

Hoy wrote:

I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system. I understand ideal situations of 'real' democratic society are perhaps impossible to achieve but we should work towards it. When i say real democracy, what i meant is to be able to vote freely and fairly. And what exactly is free and fair? Freedom of political expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press is essential for a fair election, a citizen must be well informed to place his vote to his best interest. Otherwise, it would be unfair for the ill-informed citizen to place his vote. And for voting to be free, citizen should be allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly.

Maybe proper is the wrong word... I am actually just trying to say that everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...

Well, I am not a political student, i am a computing student, so I could be wrong inside out, I'm just voicing my opinion, pls correct me if i am wrong.


I agree with you that people should have access to the information that will let them make the choice best suited to their interests. And I like your foresight to what would happen in the future if the MIW do no have people of such high caliber as now. It is quite unfair how they seem to dominate and suck in talent. Though, we do need talented people to help steer this ship. I wish meritocracy existed among the parties here.

And I also agree about the threats part. LOL... indirect threats. indeed. no upgrading for you who side with the opp! XD but then again, it really rests on what you value more. Singaporeans seem to want security and prosperity and stability more than political freedom among others. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Though, no one said you can't have both.

The system has worked in the past. But the future is a different thing isnt it. as mentioned above.
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Posted 9/23/08 , edited 9/23/08

shoushin89 wrote:


MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:


Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:




LOL.... why the statements about not being law students or just a computing student ... Again, I like definitions, so how do you define decent? By income level? By the degree of knowledge needed for the job? If every one had decent jobs, then who would take up the "indecent" jobs? More foreign workers? ... does not want to portray itself as an atm machine...there should be some criteria involved, like grades or cca involvement. If not, then it'd be a waste of resources for people who would want to drop out anyway. The primary school compulsory education is to ensure that every Singaporean has a basic level of education, especially literacy. It's not so much to ensure a decent job, but to ensure that they can get a job, and be able to access some information needed for daily life.


lol i was answering Hoy i don't think anyone here is a law student at all. otherwise we would already be bombarded with political terms XD

when i said "decent" i meant a job that can provide for the person's needs eg. food, water.. and when there is inflation and such then the pay needed by the person also increases. some people have to take multiple jobs cos' they can't live on just that one job. no job is "indecent" to me except maybe... prostitutes? o.0" for the jobs that require a lower level of education, the retired can take them to occupy their time and also to provide a little extra money to spend :D

i agree that there should be a criteria for the needy because in addition to making sure that the students truly deserve this subsidy, it may also spur them to work harder because if they dont then they risk being left out when the subsidies are given to the needy! (or is that another indirect threat?)
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Posted 9/23/08
i wonder wat EXACTLY mean Social Democracy in PAP idealogy......
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Posted 9/26/08

MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:


Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:



I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system...what exactly is free and fair ... And for voting to be free ... allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly...everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...


unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD


Well, I have nothing against the type of democracy. When I said real or true, I am not really referring to the american type of democracy, or any other type. As i mentioned above, I am referring to having a free and fair electoral system which is the very core of the word democracy. Anyway, i actually find Sg more totalitarian than social....

Well, law students not necessarily means they are political...
There are ppl who studies politics and majors in political science, i am referring to them
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Posted 9/26/08

Hoy wrote:


MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:


Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:



I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system...what exactly is free and fair ... And for voting to be free ... allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly...everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...


unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD


Well, I have nothing against the type of democracy. When I said real or true, I am not really referring to the american type of democracy, or any other type. As i mentioned above, I am referring to having a free and fair electoral system which is the very core of the word democracy. Anyway, i actually find Sg more totalitarian than social....

Well, law students not necessarily means they are political...
There are ppl who studies politics and majors in political science, i am referring to them


Totalitarian? Give me examples plz?
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Hoy
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Posted 9/26/08

azera wrote:


Hoy wrote:


MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:


Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:



I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system...what exactly is free and fair ... And for voting to be free ... allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly...everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...


unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD


Well, I have nothing against the type of democracy. When I said real or true, I am not really referring to the american type of democracy, or any other type. As i mentioned above, I am referring to having a free and fair electoral system which is the very core of the word democracy. Anyway, i actually find Sg more totalitarian than social....

Well, law students not necessarily means they are political...
There are ppl who studies politics and majors in political science, i am referring to them


Totalitarian? Give me examples plz?


Hmm... Totalitarian is a state which controls everything? Classic examples would be nazi germany or communist china? Well, we are certainly better than them in a million ways, but we can see some aspect of it in our country. Things like state controlled media, propaganda, single party rule (By suing oppositions, they make sure that there are no capable ppl on the other side so we have a choice but no choice at all), and the use of terror tactics(If you dont vote for us, No upgrading for your flats! Ok, not really terror, but the idea is there)
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Posted 9/27/08

Hoy wrote:


azera wrote:


Hoy wrote:


MUD-PIES-YUM wrote:


Hoy wrote:


shoushin89 wrote:


Hoy wrote:



I use the word real is because there are countries like *ahem* which claims to be a democratic society but I dont think they have a actual free and fair electoral system...what exactly is free and fair ... And for voting to be free ... allowed to vote for whoever they want, no threats should be placed upon them, directly or indirectly...everyone should be able to go to school and receive education to a certain level...


unfortunately, Singapore is not a country that practices "true" or "real" democracy, it practices social democracy. over the years, the system of the Singapore government has gradually swayed towards the side of the socialists/communists which means they are trying to have more power over the people. thus, they are no longer a "pure" democratic governing body and are a little socialist.

and regarding education, yes everybody has to recieve education to a certain level (primary school level) as it is one of the basic rights that a person should have in Singapore. under the law, all Singaporeans must recieve a primary level certificate since ?? year. but DUH primary school education is not enough, how can you possibly hope to obtain a decent job with nothing but a PSLE certificate? the government should make it compulsory to complete secondary school education at least and subsidise the school fees for those who cannot afford it.

i'm not a law student either :X
i'm sec 2 XD


Well, I have nothing against the type of democracy. When I said real or true, I am not really referring to the american type of democracy, or any other type. As i mentioned above, I am referring to having a free and fair electoral system which is the very core of the word democracy. Anyway, i actually find Sg more totalitarian than social....

Well, law students not necessarily means they are political...
There are ppl who studies politics and majors in political science, i am referring to them


Totalitarian? Give me examples plz?


Hmm... Totalitarian is a state which controls everything? Classic examples would be nazi germany or communist china? Well, we are certainly better than them in a million ways, but we can see some aspect of it in our country. Things like state controlled media, propaganda, single party rule (By suing oppositions, they make sure that there are no capable ppl on the other side so we have a choice but no choice at all), and the use of terror tactics(If you dont vote for us, No upgrading for your flats! Ok, not really terror, but the idea is there)


lol you said dat SG is totalitarian, I say WOW! You got guts to say dat out loud..
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