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Who is the best president to fix this mess?
Posted 9/18/08

dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:

Neither will be able to fix this mess, we are fucked either way <.<


Why?


because politicians are full of empty promises and dreams they never say what there going to do so no matter who wins we are fucked


So our nation was founded on empty promises and dreams that never changed? In that case, I'm going to go tell my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen.


And tell her to make you a sandwich!

I don't know how many politicians are full of empty promises but there are a few good politicians. I just don't know any of them that are.
Posted 9/18/08

vajmichael wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:

Neither will be able to fix this mess, we are fucked either way <.<


Why?


because politicians are full of empty promises and dreams they never say what there going to do so no matter who wins we are fucked


So our nation was founded on empty promises and dreams that never changed? In that case, I'm going to go tell my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen.


And tell her to make you a sandwich!

I don't know how many politicians are full of empty promises but there are a few good politicians. I just don't know any of them that are.


Politicians, in general, have only personal gain in mind when trying to become the president or something. Politicians, to become to politicians, must lie. Politicians, to STAY politicians, must act on some of the lies anyway. Politicians, even with negative intent in general, have a obligation to bring up there country's economy. If your country's economy sucks, explain to me how your going to stay a rich politician?
Posted 9/18/08

dmitsuki wrote:


vajmichael wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:

Neither will be able to fix this mess, we are fucked either way <.<


Why?


because politicians are full of empty promises and dreams they never say what there going to do so no matter who wins we are fucked


So our nation was founded on empty promises and dreams that never changed? In that case, I'm going to go tell my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen.


And tell her to make you a sandwich!

I don't know how many politicians are full of empty promises but there are a few good politicians. I just don't know any of them that are.


Politicians, in general, have only personal gain in mind when trying to become the president or something. Politicians, to become to politicians, must lie. Politicians, to STAY politicians, must act on some of the lies anyway. Politicians, even with negative intent in general, have a obligation to bring up there country's economy. If your country's economy sucks, explain to me how your going to stay a rich politician?


That's quite easy actually if your country economy sucks and you want to stay rich, write yourself a big check and cash it big while the poor people rot and die.
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Posted 9/18/08
Obama has nice speeches (a great facade) and a proposition to fix economy. His foreign policy sucks.
McCain's good with foreign policy but his economics is sketchy.
So what's more important, economy or foreign affairs at the moment?
I think McCain will be swell since we run on free market anyways and the market usually fixes itself in due time. If we don't finish this stupid war and just drop it instead, we'll look like pussies to the world.
Posted 9/18/08

vajmichael wrote:


That's quite easy actually if your country economy sucks and you want to stay rich, write yourself a big check and cash it big while the poor people rot and die.


Do you have no clue how a economy works? You have a bad economy, and want to stay rich. Lets assume the government did just write there selves checks, so what? The fact that no money is going back to the country, means that your just cashing LESS and LESS money every time. They would be writing worthless checks unless there economy is strong.

inb4print money go read about what happened to Germany after WW1.
Posted 9/18/08

crunchypibb wrote:

Obama has nice speeches (a great facade) and a proposition to fix economy. His foreign policy sucks.
McCain's good with foreign policy but his economics is sketchy.
So what's more important, economy or foreign affairs at the moment?
I think McCain will be swell since we run on free market anyways and the market usually fixes itself in due time. If we don't finish this stupid war and just drop it instead, we'll look like pussies to the world.


I laughed so hard. Look like pussies? That's your reason for fighting a war? You think we need to "fight a war" (the war is over, there not really "fighting" per say there now) so we can look like the country with the biggest penis? You sound like one of those stereotypical Americans all the other country's hate because all we do all day is fucking women and shoot shit.
Posted 9/18/08

dmitsuki wrote:


vajmichael wrote:


That's quite easy actually if your country economy sucks and you want to stay rich, write yourself a big check and cash it big while the poor people rot and die.


Do you have no clue how a economy works? You have a bad economy, and want to stay rich. Lets assume the government did just write there selves checks, so what? The fact that no money is going back to the country, means that your just cashing LESS and LESS money every time. They would be writing worthless checks unless there economy is strong.

inb4print money go read about what happened to Germany after WW1.


inb4print? Elaborate please.

Umm...no. Since the money will be shored up to those few who wrote themselves checks, they would be rich right? And that's the whole point of this isn't it? Since the economy sucks and will probably suck even more, you try to take as much cash as you can for yourself. So when the economy suck so much, you would have money and still be rich. Hopefully, rich enough til the economy recovers if it ever recovers. I suppose those who were late in trying to cash it big won't be that rich. And those unfortunate enough will still rot and die.

I don't know a whole lot about the economy. I know that money is recycled and makes it round. So you take out the money and and there's less money to go around. Repeat the process and there will be less and less money to go around. But I think you forgot about capitalization on interests. That's how new money is made. Correct me if I'm wrong. If there is not enough money going around, you could print more money. But that might cause a rise if inflation so you also adjust interest rates accordingly.

These days, a good economy is one the could continue to capitalize on interests. A bad economy is one where it has difficulties capitalizing interests.

Therefore, I have no idea how the economy works.
Posted 9/18/08

vajmichael wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


vajmichael wrote:


That's quite easy actually if your country economy sucks and you want to stay rich, write yourself a big check and cash it big while the poor people rot and die.


Do you have no clue how a economy works? You have a bad economy, and want to stay rich. Lets assume the government did just write there selves checks, so what? The fact that no money is going back to the country, means that your just cashing LESS and LESS money every time. They would be writing worthless checks unless there economy is strong.

inb4print money go read about what happened to Germany after WW1.


inb4print? Elaborate please.

Umm...no. Since the money will be shored up to those few who wrote themselves checks, they would be rich right? And that's the whole point of this isn't it? Since the economy sucks and will probably suck even more, you try to take as much cash as you can for yourself. So when the economy suck so much, you would have money and still be rich. Hopefully, rich enough til the economy recovers if it ever recovers. I suppose those who were late in trying to cash it big won't be that rich. And those unfortunate enough will still rot and die.

I don't know a whole lot about the economy. I know that money is recycled and makes it round. So you take out the money and and there's less money to go around. Repeat the process and there will be less and less money to go around. But I think you forgot about capitalization on interests. That's how new money is made. Correct me if I'm wrong. If there is not enough money going around, you could print more money. But that might cause a rise if inflation so you also adjust interest rates accordingly.

These days, a good economy is one the could continue to capitalize on interests. A bad economy is one where it has difficulties capitalizing interests.

Therefore, I have no idea how the economy works.

Arg, let me try to explain this. If your country economy sucks, you have a weak dollar. If you have a weak dollar, you could make yourself a bigger check. Therefore, sense your not putting money back into the economy, your dollar is getting less value. Therefore, you write a bigger check. Less money is going back into helping the economy, therefore your dollar value's weakens. Now, sense your taking all the money, people cannot buy from business's in your country and such, so your dollar gets more worthless. Eventually, you can take all your country's money, and you will still be broke. therefore, to stay rich, you must help your economy.

During WW1, Germany needed money to fund the war. Well, you would say, logically all they have to do is print more money right? Well, they agreed, so they printed more money. The war ends, and do you realize what happened? There was so much German money, it was virtually worthless, printing more money when your country is having economic troubles makes inflation, a UNDERSTATEMENT. Could you imagine paying 2 MILLION dollars for a loaf of bread? So no, you can't just print more money when you are getting broke. Politicians must, even the greedy ones who don't give a shit about people, have to protect there country's economy to stay rich. Whats the point of having a billion dollars that equals 2 cent everywhere else in the world? Yeah in your country its worth a lot, but your economy is horrible and business can't sustain, so what can you buy with it?

Also, economy's don't magically recover, ever. Economy's do not just turn to crap randomly, then heal themselves. The German economy didn't fix itself, it was because the American government paying loans to it, and WW2 that it recovered. Wars and reforms recover economies, but they don't just recover magically themselves.

"I don't know a whole lot about the economy. I know that money is recycled and makes it round. So you take out the money and and there's less money to go around. Repeat the process and there will be less and less money to go around. But I think you forgot about capitalization on interests. That's how new money is made. Correct me if I'm wrong. If there is not enough money going around, you could print more money. But that might cause a rise if inflation so you also adjust interest rates accordingly."

Money is recycled, and goes round and round. Now if the money is taken out and given to one man, the money becomes virtually worthless, because inflation, and your dollar weakens. All the business in your country can't sustain if nobody has money to buy products, so the more politicians take the worse it would become.
Posted 9/19/08

dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:

Neither will be able to fix this mess, we are fucked either way <.<


Why?


because politicians are full of empty promises and dreams they never say what there going to do so no matter who wins we are fucked


So our nation was founded on empty promises and dreams that never changed? In that case, I'm going to go tell my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen.


women should go back to the kitchen anyways btw that was then and this now politicians are so croupt and greddy it is not even funny. Palin saying that the soilders are in Iraq doing god's work got me rolling :lol:, I love how they use god and other relegious people for war, It pisses me off so much.
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Posted 9/19/08
Bush had turn America into a giant useless shit state . We need a president who can return our old image . I go for Obama!
Posted 9/19/08

Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


Laharalsan_666 wrote:

Neither will be able to fix this mess, we are fucked either way <.<


Why?


because politicians are full of empty promises and dreams they never say what there going to do so no matter who wins we are fucked


So our nation was founded on empty promises and dreams that never changed? In that case, I'm going to go tell my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen.


women should go back to the kitchen anyways btw that was then and this now politicians are so croupt and greddy it is not even funny. Palin saying that the soilders are in Iraq doing god's work got me rolling :lol:, I love how they use god and other relegious people for war, It pisses me off so much.


Posted 9/19/08

dmitsuki wrote:


Whew that was long man. Hey don't stress yourself out man. You might need to explain it a few more times. J/k.

Actually, there will always be the poor and the rich. Not everyone could be rich, and wealth will accumulate towards certain people or groups in every era. These have always been the few.

Germany shouldered the cost of WWII after the war. I think they still do. Dunno whether they have payed it all off or not.

Actually if money is taken out of the cycle, that money doesn't become worthless nor does it weaken the dollar. There is actually less money to go around but that shouldn't affect the value of the money. The value of money is dependent upon how many bills are in circulation. This goes back to the printing of money. As long as the money is still circulating, everything should still be fine.

The thing I don't get these days is how does fiat money get valued. The dollar as defined by the Constitution, correct if I'm wrong, was equated to an ounce of gold. Using an ounce of gold as the backing of the dollar, you would know how much a dollar would be worth and possible know how much gold a certain country had. Now the backing of fiat currency is by trust and faith. As long as people have faith that the fiat dollar still has value, it still is worth something.
Posted 9/19/08 , edited 9/19/08

vajmichael wrote:

.

Actually, there will always be the poor and the rich. Not everyone could be rich, and wealth will accumulate towards certain people or groups in every era. These have always been the few.

Yes, there will always be poor and rich, and wealth does accumulate.


Germany shouldered the cost of WWII after the war. I think they still do. Dunno whether they have payed it all off or not.
That German economy, and the one now, are much better then the pre WW2 one. The Germans blamed there government for there economic problems, and then a political party called the Nazi's appeared to save them.


Actually if money is taken out of the cycle, that money doesn't become worthless nor does it weaken the dollar. There is actually less money to go around but that shouldn't affect the value of the money. The value of money is dependent upon how many bills are in circulation. This goes back to the printing of money. As long as the money is still circulating, everything should still be fine.

There is a thousand dollars in a economy, and there is three businesses. The government has 50 dollars, with two politicians who have 25 dollars each, and the rest is spread through the individuals. The money goes to the business, and makes it back to the people who work for the business, also, the tax on things keeps the 50 dollars in the government, its a good economy. The government now gets greedy, and decides to take money from the people, intern, the money is now being taken away from the businesses, so the business have less incentive to have branch's in this country. The dollar weakens, and one business folds. Now, the government needs more money, because the money they have is worth less, so they take more and more and more until all business's in the country fold, all the people are poor, and they have all the thousand dollars. Do you know why that thousand bucks is useless? There is no business's in the country. There dollar therefore has no economic value, as to you can't actually buy anything with it, the exchange rate would give you chump change in a country like America or Britain because the fact there dollar is now virtually worthless. There is no investment in the country, and the government took all the money. Economy's prosper off of business, business make money off the mass, a mass who can't afford to buy business products make business's fold, and that destroys the economy. In fact, that was the whole bases for the great depression, in which Americans were to poor to buy what they were producing, which destroyed most businesses, and lead to a stock market crash, and sense America was the worlds economic crutch, it led to a global depression.


The thing I don't get these days is how does fiat money get valued. The dollar as defined by the Constitution, correct if I'm wrong, was equated to an ounce of gold. Using an ounce of gold as the backing of the dollar, you would know how much a dollar would be worth and possible know how much gold a certain country had. Now the backing of fiat currency is by trust and faith. As long as people have faith that the fiat dollar still has value, it still is worth something.

We live in a world today that is not just government's minding there own business's. It's a global economy, with international organizations and considerations. Now, if the US government says "One of our dollars is worth whatever" It means nothing on a global scale. "Faith and trust" mean nothing in a global economy, its all about economics and business. If we say that our dollar is worth 5 million euro's or yen, and Japan says that 500 yen is 5 BILLION American dollars, it does nothing for a company like Coco-Cola, who gets international profits, and needs to come up with gross incomes and such. Now the value of your currency on a global scale, is all about your economy. If you have a really good economy, your money is stronger. (5 bucks is about 500 yen in Japan, 500 yen will probably buy you the same thing 5 bucks will buy you, so there about equal, now 5 dollars is like 500 pessos which will get you 50 dollars worth of stuff, showing how weak the Mexican currency is compared to the US's currency.) Mexico, couldn't just say, "PEOPLE OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH MORE" and its worth more, they would have to better there economy, and there dollar would naturally be worth more. It's like...in a global economy, the more business that's done in your country, the more your money is worth, (developed nations) and if your a third world country, your dollar is worth almost nothing, which is why company's can so cheaply afford to stick you in a factory and pay you crap. (Bill Gates could literally fund a third world nation, due to exchange rates)


Posted 9/19/08

dmitsuki wrote:


vajmichael wrote:

.

Actually, there will always be the poor and the rich. Not everyone could be rich, and wealth will accumulate towards certain people or groups in every era. These have always been the few.

Yes, there will always be poor and rich, and wealth does accumulate.


Germany shouldered the cost of WWII after the war. I think they still do. Dunno whether they have payed it all off or not.
That German economy, and the one now, are much better then the pre WW2 one. The Germans blamed there government for there economic problems, and then a political party called the Nazi's appeared to save them.


Actually if money is taken out of the cycle, that money doesn't become worthless nor does it weaken the dollar. There is actually less money to go around but that shouldn't affect the value of the money. The value of money is dependent upon how many bills are in circulation. This goes back to the printing of money. As long as the money is still circulating, everything should still be fine.

There is a thousand dollars in a economy, and there is three businesses. The government has 50 dollars, with two politicians who have 25 dollars each, and the rest is spread through the individuals. The money goes to the business, and makes it back to the people who work for the business, also, the tax on things keeps the 50 dollars in the government, its a good economy. The government now gets greedy, and decides to take money from the people, intern, the money is now being taken away from the businesses, so the business have less incentive to have branch's in this country. The dollar weakens, and one business folds. Now, the government needs more money, because the money they have is worth less, so they take more and more and more until all business's in the country fold, all the people are poor, and they have all the thousand dollars. Do you know why that thousand bucks is useless? There is no business's in the country. There dollar therefore has no economic value, as to you can't actually buy anything with it, the exchange rate would give you chump change in a country like America or Britain because the fact there dollar is now virtually worthless. There is no investment in the country, and the government took all the money. Economy's prosper off of business, business make money off the mass, a mass who can't afford to buy business products make business's fold, and that destroys the economy. In fact, that was the whole bases for the great depression, in which Americans were to poor to buy what they were producing, which destroyed most businesses, and lead to a stock market crash, and sense America was the worlds economic crutch, it led to a global depression.


The thing I don't get these days is how does fiat money get valued. The dollar as defined by the Constitution, correct if I'm wrong, was equated to an ounce of gold. Using an ounce of gold as the backing of the dollar, you would know how much a dollar would be worth and possible know how much gold a certain country had. Now the backing of fiat currency is by trust and faith. As long as people have faith that the fiat dollar still has value, it still is worth something.

We live in a world today that is not just government's minding there own business's. It's a global economy, with international organizations and considerations. Now, if the US government says "One of our dollars is worth whatever" It means nothing on a global scale. "Faith and trust" mean nothing in a global economy, its all about economics and business. If we say that our dollar is worth 5 million euro's or yen, and Japan says that 500 yen is 5 BILLION American dollars, it does nothing for a company like Coco-Cola, who gets international profits, and needs to come up with gross incomes and such. Now the value of your currency on a global scale, is all about your economy. If you have a really good economy, your money is stronger. (5 bucks is about 500 yen in Japan, 500 yen will probably buy you the same thing 5 bucks will buy you, so there about equal, now 5 dollars is like 500 pessos which will get you 50 dollars worth of stuff, showing how weak the Mexican currency is compared to the US's currency.) Mexico, couldn't just say, "PEOPLE OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH MORE" and its worth more, they would have to better there economy, and there dollar would naturally be worth more. It's like...in a global economy, the more business that's done in your country, the more your money is worth, (developed nations) and if your a third world country, your dollar is worth almost nothing, which is why company's can so cheaply afford to stick you in a factory and pay you crap. (Bill Gates could literally fund a third world nation, due to exchange rates)




Your example is pretty simplistic. I suppose with fiat currency in use, I could see that the dollar may get weaker because the strength of the economy is measured using the GDP which is how much goods and services a country produces hence the name Gross Domestic Product. Also, if the dollar loses value to other currency, the people of the U.S. or specific country loses faith in the money and start hording.

If money is kept inside a system, the value of it should stay the same should it not? It's just that the flow of money has become less which will restrict certain activities. I suppose the economy does shrink. Of course with less money going around people become poor. On an international level, depending on which type of currency the country uses, the value might stay the same or lose value. If GDP is used to valuate a currency, of course the value drops.

Actually what caused the Great Depression wasn't the inability to buy but had to do more with investments going sour. Investments in farm land that is. Ever heard about the tulip mania? It's similar to what took place before the Great Depression and it was similar to what took place in the U.S. a couple years ago.
Posted 9/19/08

vajmichael wrote:


dmitsuki wrote:


vajmichael wrote:

.

Actually, there will always be the poor and the rich. Not everyone could be rich, and wealth will accumulate towards certain people or groups in every era. These have always been the few.

Yes, there will always be poor and rich, and wealth does accumulate.


Germany shouldered the cost of WWII after the war. I think they still do. Dunno whether they have payed it all off or not.
That German economy, and the one now, are much better then the pre WW2 one. The Germans blamed there government for there economic problems, and then a political party called the Nazi's appeared to save them.


Actually if money is taken out of the cycle, that money doesn't become worthless nor does it weaken the dollar. There is actually less money to go around but that shouldn't affect the value of the money. The value of money is dependent upon how many bills are in circulation. This goes back to the printing of money. As long as the money is still circulating, everything should still be fine.

There is a thousand dollars in a economy, and there is three businesses. The government has 50 dollars, with two politicians who have 25 dollars each, and the rest is spread through the individuals. The money goes to the business, and makes it back to the people who work for the business, also, the tax on things keeps the 50 dollars in the government, its a good economy. The government now gets greedy, and decides to take money from the people, intern, the money is now being taken away from the businesses, so the business have less incentive to have branch's in this country. The dollar weakens, and one business folds. Now, the government needs more money, because the money they have is worth less, so they take more and more and more until all business's in the country fold, all the people are poor, and they have all the thousand dollars. Do you know why that thousand bucks is useless? There is no business's in the country. There dollar therefore has no economic value, as to you can't actually buy anything with it, the exchange rate would give you chump change in a country like America or Britain because the fact there dollar is now virtually worthless. There is no investment in the country, and the government took all the money. Economy's prosper off of business, business make money off the mass, a mass who can't afford to buy business products make business's fold, and that destroys the economy. In fact, that was the whole bases for the great depression, in which Americans were to poor to buy what they were producing, which destroyed most businesses, and lead to a stock market crash, and sense America was the worlds economic crutch, it led to a global depression.


The thing I don't get these days is how does fiat money get valued. The dollar as defined by the Constitution, correct if I'm wrong, was equated to an ounce of gold. Using an ounce of gold as the backing of the dollar, you would know how much a dollar would be worth and possible know how much gold a certain country had. Now the backing of fiat currency is by trust and faith. As long as people have faith that the fiat dollar still has value, it still is worth something.

We live in a world today that is not just government's minding there own business's. It's a global economy, with international organizations and considerations. Now, if the US government says "One of our dollars is worth whatever" It means nothing on a global scale. "Faith and trust" mean nothing in a global economy, its all about economics and business. If we say that our dollar is worth 5 million euro's or yen, and Japan says that 500 yen is 5 BILLION American dollars, it does nothing for a company like Coco-Cola, who gets international profits, and needs to come up with gross incomes and such. Now the value of your currency on a global scale, is all about your economy. If you have a really good economy, your money is stronger. (5 bucks is about 500 yen in Japan, 500 yen will probably buy you the same thing 5 bucks will buy you, so there about equal, now 5 dollars is like 500 pessos which will get you 50 dollars worth of stuff, showing how weak the Mexican currency is compared to the US's currency.) Mexico, couldn't just say, "PEOPLE OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH MORE" and its worth more, they would have to better there economy, and there dollar would naturally be worth more. It's like...in a global economy, the more business that's done in your country, the more your money is worth, (developed nations) and if your a third world country, your dollar is worth almost nothing, which is why company's can so cheaply afford to stick you in a factory and pay you crap. (Bill Gates could literally fund a third world nation, due to exchange rates)




Your example is pretty simplistic. I suppose with fiat currency in use, I could see that the dollar may get weaker because the strength of the economy is measured using the GDP which is how much goods and services a country produces hence the name Gross Domestic Product. Also, if the dollar loses value to other currency, the people of the U.S. or specific country loses faith in the money and start hording.

If money is kept inside a system, the value of it should stay the same should it not? It's just that the flow of money has become less which will restrict certain activities. I suppose the economy does shrink. Of course with less money going around people become poor. On an international level, depending on which type of currency the country uses, the value might stay the same or lose value. If GDP is used to valuate a currency, of course the value drops.

Actually what caused the Great Depression wasn't the inability to buy but had to do more with investments going sour. Investments in farm land that is. Ever heard about the tulip mania? It's similar to what took place before the Great Depression and it was similar to what took place in the U.S. a couple years ago.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#The_snowball_spiral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Great_Depression

A LOT of stuff led to the Great depression, not just a single problem.
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