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Putting an end to prejudice?
Posted 4/8/07
People are naturally fearful of things which are different and unknown. Since you are usually brought up in a society which is all of your ethnicity (your family) there is little chance for children to learn that other races are no different "on the inside" from thier own. Therefore, during their most impressionable years they are not "immunised" against racism.

One way to end racism is to have children growing up in utterly multicultural social groups (in an international community basically). Being able to interact directly with other cultures allows much greater understanding and means that people are much more accepting of other "new" ethnicities when they arrive. This, at least, has been my personal experience from being put in an international school, it gave me a totally different perspective on race, having moved from a school with a total of 2 foreigners in my entire year, only one of whom wasn't white caucasian. It is also better to have children learn a foreign language, it helps greatly with integration between cultures and mutual understanding / friendship.

Unfortuanately this won't happen too quickly, there are protectionists / nationalists everywhere in the world who are intent upon having a society in which there is only one race for them to bring up their children. Until these people are shown that what they believe about others is not true we shall never have "peaceful" race relations.

On the subject of stereotypes, I see them as similar to mild phobias. People with a dog phobia won't approach any dog because it "might bite my leg off", even the little lap dogs, after having been attacked by one dog long ago. Similarly with stereotypes people extrapolate from a few individuals, maybe even a personal encounter, they then consider the entire population to be like that. It is a very effective safety measure built into humans, most people are scared of wasps slightly and rightly so, wasps are dangerous. In order to destroy stereotypes, as with racism we need more integration, in order that people learn that individuals are not the same as the whole group.

Penultimately; Jesus "even" died for the arabs... he was one!!!

And Finally; Seraph no "historical fact" means that we can't do something, it used to be a "historical fact" that people couldn't fly... look at where we are now. History does not repeat itself unless we take the attitude that it does, and let it get on with it, if we don't want to repeat historical mistakes all we have to do is try.
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Posted 4/8/07
Humans are lazy. This goes back to another human nature topic. If every individual had the chance to let another do something for them, they would. No one actually wants to expend the extra energy to work rather than enjoy life. This reminds me of Occam's razor actually. It's a principle which states that when faced with two possibilities, always take the easier and less complicated one. This situation applies everywhere so people won't think or work if the didn't have to.

A lot of people don't use their brains which is actually quite pathetic. Let's take this site for example. You probably have no idea, but about 2/3 of this site have no common sense and are, for a lack of a better word, dumbasses.
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digs 
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Posted 4/8/07

mauz15 wrote:


digs wrote:

Races are nothing more then genetics.


Race is not a scientific concept
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/082200sci-genetics-race.html


I learned something new ^_^ thanks.
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Posted 4/8/07
Personally I have to admit I have been on the receiving end of big time racism. While it is pretty crappy, I cant hate them for it because I can (and will) turn right around and dish it out. No matter what race you are, I'll even say bad things about my own race if they piss me off.
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Posted 4/8/07

Yes it is fair, as I'm including myself. I don't know about you guys, I always find I still have to work on my attitude. And it's really work to be open minded all the time. It's much easier to only have one look at a person and estimate them by that. In the second you see a person for the first time your brain takes in so much information, it's natural for you to somehow label that. I don't know if I'm expressing myself sufficiently here, because there's lots of things you have to count into that. So it's a bit of extra attention you have to keep up, and that's what I'm saying lots of people are to lazy to do. As someone pointed out in another thread, they don't, cause it's not necessary. It's extra work.


That right there just completely changed my mind. I never thought of it like that. I guess people are too lazy to use their minds. I agree now that you put it like that!


One way to end racism is to have children growing up in utterly multicultural social groups (in an international community basically). Being able to interact directly with other cultures allows much greater understanding and means that people are much more accepting of other "new" ethnicities when they arrive....
And Finally; Seraph no "historical fact" means that we can't do something, it used to be a "historical fact" that people couldn't fly... look at where we are now. History does not repeat itself unless we take the attitude that it does, and let it get on with it, if we don't want to repeat historical mistakes all we have to do is try

On the contrary, integrating a wide of races into a young child’s life may have the opposite effect of what you suggest. It is a matter of Human psychology. Children are very susceptible to an odd form of post traumatic stress disorder. Let me explain what I mean by this.

Young children often find that they strongly dislike/fear something. The longevity of this hatred varies, but at times it lasts throughout an entire lifetime. For example, I have a friend who developed an odd fear of catholic priests. When he was young his mother had the church come and anoint her house with holy oils. Although the priests didn’t do anything out of the ordinary the crowds put a strain on my friends developing mind and scared him. The phobia has remained to this day.

If a child then, while still in his developing stage, has a bad experience with someone of another race it may created a chronic feeling of xenophobia towards that race. This is because his mind will, on a subliminal level, relate his early life experience with a race to the race itself. Also, it can breed a form of jealousy. Sense most various races have white skin somebody from a race with dark brown skin may be envious because they have become a minority.

However, I do think that your suggestion is a very good, though panglossian idea. Ultimately it would help, but it wouldn’t by any stretch of the imagination put an -end- to racism.

As far as the historical fact goes, your mistaken. A historical fact is merely a fact proven by history. Here in America men have to pay more for car insurance. Why? Because in the past our sex has been in more wrecks than the female gender. So, it’s a historical fact that men get into more wrecks than women. It is similar to a statistical fact. Ultimately a historical fact is not truly a fact. You understand?


Humans are lazy. This goes back to another human nature topic. If every individual had the chance to let another do something for them, they would. No one actually wants to expend the extra energy to work rather than enjoy life. This reminds me of Occam's razor actually. It's a principle which states that when faced with two possibilities, always take the easier and less complicated one. This situation applies everywhere so people won't think or work if the didn't have to.

A lot of people don't use their brains which is actually quite pathetic. Let's take this site for example. You probably have no idea, but about 2/3 of this site have no common sense and are, for a lack of a better word, dumbasses.


Although I do respect your opinion Jam, I disagree to a degree.

There are people out there who will turn you down any time you offer to do them something. Some people feel guilty about relying on those around them, while others consider it weak. Still, others would willingly put somebody off to save their own energy.

Now you say, Occam’s razor? These may just be two terms for the same thing but do you mean Ockham’s razor? Well, I’ve not read up on this in a while, but the definition of it that I would give is not quite like yours. For one thing, when I studied that for a debate on human psychology at school, it said that people should prefer simplicity to complexity. Should. So people don't -always- choose simplicity.

Here, I’ll do my best to define it: A rule of philosophy and/or science that claims simple explanations should be preferred to more complicated ones. Also the description of new things should be based off of things that are already known and understood…

I may be thinking about a different thing. I know that Ockham’s razor is also called the law of parsimony.

Anyway, forgive me for wandering its been a quirk of mine sense I was a little lad, but the point is I strongly disagree with that whole statement. I often prefer things to be more abstract in their explanation and description. If for no other reason than to exercise my mind. (Note, I’m a lazy bum but I like abstract thinking cuz its different than normal day-to-day patterns of thought.)


Personally I have to admit I have been on the receiving end of big time racism. While it is pretty crappy, I cant hate them for it because I can (and will) turn right around and dish it out. No matter what race you are, I'll even say bad things about my own race if they piss me off.


Well, your free to be that way, but I personally think that your only encouraging further discrimination against yourself. They say it takes fire to fight with fire, but last time I check dowsing a burning building with gasoline doesn’t help.

Think of it like a two sided sword. You push it out at somebody, but in doing so you cut your own hand. Or better yet its like building blocks. They put one down. So you place another on top of it to come out on top. Then they put one on you, and you on them, and them on you, and ext. Eventually the tower is going to topple…

P.S: Forgive my double post, please!

PS: Forgiven!

PS: WTF?
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Posted 4/8/07
^ lol I edited your double post!
Posted 4/8/07
@ Seraph - yes, childhood experiences are the ones which affect us the most, and most phobias are born in childhood. However a strong positive experience in childhood, such as having a freind from another "race" would be a great positive thing. I believe that the pros of integration in childhood outweigh the cons, hey, only about 15% of the population develop phobias and only 1% of the population have severe phobias, and if they're going to get a phobia, we can "cure" them anyway! [source; IB Psychology Notes]

Also saying "most various races have white skin" is, to put it bluntly, false. There are more people in the world without white skin than there are with, together Chinese and Indians make up 1/3 of the worlds population, and I wouldn't call them "white". Implying that coloured races will feel envious towards "whites" is also a bit false, being a minority does not cause you to want to be part of the "crowd", it makes people take pride in their differences. N.b. I'm speaking from experience here, I live in a community where there are minorities, but they uphold their culture. [this isn't a personal quip, just I happen to have a different opinion]

Occam's Razor [a.k.a. Ockham's razor] does not only state that the simplest explanation should be taken. It states that the simplest adequate explanation should be taken. So, only an explanation which fulfills the facts and observations should be accepted (it is for this reason that Darwinism is upheld, it requires a much simpler mechanism than intelligent design, but still explains what is happening adequately). In that case, ensuring that stereotypes and prejudiced opinions are not "adequate" to describe the situation is the best way to go, therefore, showing people what different races are really like, therefore integration!
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Posted 4/8/07

@ Seraph - yes, childhood experiences are the ones which affect us the most, and most phobias are born in childhood. However a strong positive experience in childhood, such as having a freind from another "race" would be a great positive thing. I believe that the pros of integration in childhood outweigh the cons, hey, only about 15% of the population develop phobias and only 1% of the population have severe phobias, and if they're going to get a phobia, we can "cure" them anyway! [source; IB Psychology Notes]

Also saying "most various races have white skin" is, to put it bluntly, false. There are more people in the world without white skin than there are with, together Chinese and Indians make up 1/3 of the worlds population, and I wouldn't call them "white". Implying that coloured races will feel envious towards "whites" is also a bit false, being a minority does not cause you to want to be part of the "crowd", it makes people take pride in their differences. N.b. I'm speaking from experience here, I live in a community where there are minorities, but they uphold their culture. [this isn't a personal quip, just I happen to have a different opinion]

Occam's Razor [a.k.a. Ockham's razor] does not only state that the simplest explanation should be taken. It states that the simplest adequate explanation should be taken. So, only an explanation which fulfills the facts and observations should be accepted (it is for this reason that Darwinism is upheld, it requires a much simpler mechanism than intelligent design, but still explains what is happening adequately). In that case, ensuring that stereotypes and prejudiced opinions are not "adequate" to describe the situation is the best way to go, therefore, showing people what different races are really like, therefore integration!


Oy, I agree with all that. Never said I didn't. What I think I said was that it wouldn't end racism 100%. You misunderstood. I'm sorry. That's my fault. I should be more clear in what I'm writing. I rant so much about vaguely related topics that people often misunderstand the central message I'm trying to send. I'll try and focus more on my main theme in the future.

However, I must say that the Darwin theory is not exactly being upheld. At least not in a steadfast mannor. Due to recent advamces we've made in molecular biology, genetics, and biochemistry it has begun to slowly wane away. Or, rather to go through a stage of change. We are slowly "bending" the Darwinian theory. For example: Charles Darwin said that everything came from a singular ancestory. Now the more common theory, and most likely the more accurate, is that there were a series of organism which play the role of "father species."
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Posted 4/8/07
As long as long as Ignorance exists in human beings, Racism will continue to exist.
What trips me out is where i live my people are so quick to call a person racist, when the real problem is the can't accept change. Like interraccial dating. Alot of my family shunned be just because I dated different races. That ignorance is what's holding us back from being a community.
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Posted 4/8/07

Alot of my family shunned be just because I dated different races. That ignorance is what's holding us back from being a community


In my opinion they are not family then. Blood ties are not what make a brother your brother. Its something greater. My biological father is nothing to me, but I love my stepfather… (Sorta…) Cuz he raised me. Anyway, sorry to hear that.
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Posted 4/8/07
That's why I said that I may be using the term incorrectly for Occam's Razor or however you spell it. It is the law of parsimony and it just popped in my head so I decided to use it as a simple way to prove that people tend to be lazy. I do realize that there are a few people who enjoy using their intellect to learn, but the majority of people here could care less and depend on superiors to do any innovative work, but that's off topic..

Actually because of genomics and bioinformatics, the Darwin Theory is being held as truer regard than before in my view. What other mechanism for evolution are you proposing besides natural selection?

Edit: Actually I didn't mention that I may have been wrong. My apologies.
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Posted 4/8/07
to me i think that the way to end it is to finish what alexzander the great started which was mixing all the races and he tryed even when his men begged him to marry a mesadonian he took a asian wife
Posted 4/8/07
In todays society is has gotten a little bit better but as long as there is racism in the world now...through parent to kid contact I think it will be spread. Maybe in many years though we will forget this.
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Posted 4/8/07
No, no need to appologize. It's an understandable mistake. People round here say srry too much. Come on yall, it’s all in good nature!

In any case I am not suggesting any mechanism for evolution. Merely what I am saying is that Darwinism is mutating a bit. Just the details. I wouldn’t say it is waning completely, but that it is certainly passing through a stage of change.
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Posted 4/8/07
The best way to end prejudices is for everyone to go into interracial relationships. In a few generations we'll all be the same race and have many different ethnicities flowing through our veins. (I'm just joking btw)
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