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Post Reply What weapon is better?
Posted 9/27/08
Can someone please explain to me how is a Tessen made? Also, is one method of making a tessen is having the middle part made with very flexible metal and the outer side with a very hard metal?

By the way, I choose tessen because I heard it is very effective against defending against other weapons.


katana


Claymore


Chain Whip


Shuriken


I know this wasn't an option, but if you want to you can vote for this one instead by saying so in the forum.
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Posted 9/28/08


Well I'd say none are better.
They each have their own uses. I would say a shuriken and claymore might be a bit more disadvantageous against the other mentioned weapons for their own reasons.
A claymore is a fairly unbalanced weapon. It's not as heavy as it may appear to be, but it can be unwieldy and awkward. The hira-shuriken evolved from a semi-sharpened [or sometimes unsharpened] flat piece of square scrap metal. It did not often penetrate an opponent and was used by samurai as a tool of distraction not unlike the quintessential swashbuckler throwing sand in his duelist opponent's face as both a taunt and a momentary distraction. Even in it's evolutions, the penetration would not likely be sufficient to kill or end a fight for that matter. The bo-shuriken was a pointed dart which held a bit more penetrating power. It could potentially end a fight, but it still was not as effective as using a sword or another mentioned weapon. The kogatana was the quintessential samurai throwing blade often held in the tsuka itto or kozuka itself. Some were throwing blades yet others were small knives meant for cutting. They have even more stopping power. However none equal the effective stopping power of a sword.

The manriki gusari is a weapon I adore. It was held in the sleeves and thrown out. It could block, entangle, grapple, strike, and trap enemies and/or their weapons. It is a chain whip of sorts.


A tessen is either a solid iron bar that appears to be a folded fan, or the more expensive and less effective yet more convenient version of an actual folding fan with iron spines.

The latter is less effective as it is lighter, less durable, and the solid iron bar can stop a weapon with a bit more "umpf." It is more convenient as it still is effective against a weapon and it has a multi practical use of being an actual fan and having stealth capabilities being that others may assume it is made of wood and attack you.
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Posted 10/4/08
Well you need to be awfully strong to handle a Claymore.. but it's a great weapon.. yeah the weight accounts for most of the damage done, i think.


Hmm.. and you have to be really swift to use a Katana, or else you won't be able to slice as effectively..


And vision's crucial for shurikens (something i don't have too good, myopia sucks! ><)

so i'll choose Tessen too! it's a really clever defense.. plus it can be disguised, unlike the Katana/Claymore.. ahahha XD (yeah Chain Whip out of the picture, i don't like things that flail around. )
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Posted 10/4/08

jellybean101 wrote:

Well you need to be awfully strong to handle a Claymore.. but it's a great weapon.. yeah the weight accounts for most of the damage done, i think.


Hmm.. and you have to be really swift to use a Katana, or else you won't be able to slice as effectively..


And vision's crucial for shurikens (something i don't have too good, myopia sucks! ><)

so i'll choose Tessen too! it's a really clever defense.. plus it can be disguised, unlike the Katana/Claymore.. ahahha XD (yeah Chain Whip out of the picture, i don't like things that flail around. )



That's a very interesting point.

Well the claymore is actually not that heavy. It is unbalanced and unwieldy though which makes for awkward use. Weight has not much to do with damage either. A katana is very light but it can cut through an entire person. A claymore is a bit heavier, but to use a claymore to hack off a limb or a head, it would be quite hard and is not likely to happen with a single swing.

Damage comes from making a correct attack. This comes from skill which comes from practice. For example; in kenjutsu the angle of the cut and correct application are what gives maximum damage.

Basically where to hit and how to hit are what damages a person.

You don't have to be swift to use a katana. Speed and strength actually have nothing to do with the capability and skill in wielding a weapon. You just have to be sure you are not too weak to handle the weapon or too slow to make an effective strike.

In kenjutsu, initiative is important; speed is not. It does not take much to be sufficiently quick enough to cut the opponent before they can cut you if you have the initiative.

The tessen is a very clever defense and it's disguise is part of it's effectiveness too. The chain whip can be quite intimidating as with anything that flails around, I agree. However a manriki gusari is a 4 foot chain with two weights attached to either end. It can be very effective and if you can train in it's use, it would be quite difficult or rather deliberate for one to be able to hit oneself. It's a pretty easy weapon.


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Posted 10/5/08



It is unbalanced and unwieldy though which makes for awkward use.


However a manriki gusari is a 4 foot chain with two weights attached to either end.

Hmm.. so the craftsmanship of the weapon matters a lot. Especially balance. Got it!




Anyway, solid explanation you made there. It really was a great help, thanks! :)



but i have one question, concerning this block of text:


In kenjutsu, initiative is important; speed is not. It does not take much to be sufficiently quick enough to cut the opponent before they can cut you if you have the initiative.


What do you mean by initiative, if I may ask?
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Posted 10/5/08



I am honored to be of assitance.

Sorry, initiative can be a vague word.

Okay, let me explain the mindset in the midst of combat. All these little things come naturally to a practiced swordsman and are quick to pick up with diligence. They are something to ponder, but eventually mushin is applied. I will explain that in a moment.

1. As a swordsman, you sense the intent to harm you. [Psychological intuition. You sense little indications someone harbors malice towards you. It can be as small as someone avoiding eye contact and fidgeting to someone with full resolve placing his hand on his sword.]

2. You prepare your resolve instantly to kill and relieve any attachments to your own life. Mushin sets in and you both draw. You immediately spring back, accounting for maai, and secure your footing and take your stance safely out of his immediate threat range.

3. Then several things happen.
A.) Go no sen; You wait for the opponents attack, and receive it by defense and utilize a counter attack.
B.) Sen no sen; With a defensive goal, you attack at the same time as the opponent.
C.) Sensen no sen; You anticipate the attack and make your own attack first.

3. The initiative is the edge on the opponent. Whether it be a defensive initiative or an offensive initiative, you gain the upper hand by either attacking before the opponent is prepared [offensive initiative] or you receive the attack in anticipation, intercept it, and counter attack thereby gaining the defensive initiative.

There is another example for initiative though.

Say section two involves a user of iaijutsu [my preferred weapon art] and thus both opponents do not just draw swords. You sense the intent to kill, resolve yourself, and immediately step in, drawing the blade and cutting the opponent in a single strike. This is also an example of initiative.

Let me explain a few of the principles I mentioned.

Mushin is a concept of "Void Mind" in which you do not think during combat. You are fully prepared instantaneously and your resolve materializes as instant reaction. During combat, no one has sufficient time to think. When your mind stops on your opponent's sword, it gets trapped by it. You're focus is lost. With mushin, you don't think; you just react.
It is the ultimate discipline in martial arts and accompanies Fudoshin and Zanshin.

Martial artists first learn the principles of their art by oral transmission, then they practice with kata [forms by repetition] thereby committing the motions to muscle memory, not unlike learning to ride a bike; something that you don't have to think about. Then, in the case of swordsmen, they practice the application with tameshigiri or test cutting. Then after they have a feel for the resistance, understand the principles governing the techniques, and the techniques are second nature to them, they practice forgetting the techniques; or rather not thinking about them. Then they often go on a musha shugyo and test their skills gaining mushin. In present day, sparring is applicable.

Fudoshin is the immovable mind in which you cannot be swayed or perturbed. It's often cited to be a spirit of unshakable determination and serenity. Zanshin, the retaining mind, is a state of relaxed alertness. It also has link to the posture of the user and the level in which their eyes rest upon the opponent. I might also mention shoshin while we're at it. Shoshin is the student's mind. One must always retain it. It is where you remove any preconceptions from your mind and are completely open and you have much eagerness and diligence, you are totally devoted to learning something in it's purest of forms.

I picture it like this... I have the image of a painting, not one that I have ever seen in my life, but one perhaps that I have yet to paint. It's a landscape. At the top, clouds are drifting by over the top of a mountain overlooking a serene lake.
The lake is like Zanshin, always calm. You can cast stones into it, and it reacts alertly with subtle ripples yet does not stir. The mountain is like Fudoshin. It is immovable, strong, and no natural disaster can shake it's vigile guard over the rest of the scenery. The clouds are like Mushin, drifting on, never stopping.

Then there is a door at the bottom of the painting, like walking right through the door enters the world this painting is. That door is like shoshin. You can only reach it with dilligence and can only understand how to open it with an open and eager mind.

Maai is the concept that measures two things. The practical being the distance between two people measured by their immediate threat range. The range of immediate threat being measured, in the case of swordsmen, by the length of the swords. If in chuden kamae, you stand beyond the range of a strike, the opponent must move to meet you, thus giving you adequate time to gain the initiative.
The metaphysical being the measuring of the opponent's fighting spirit or kiai. In this case, kiai or fighting spirit being quite literally resolve.
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Posted 10/5/08
It's not as much the weapon as it is the user.
Ice, you covered everything else as I would've.
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Posted 10/8/08
even though i voted for the katana i actually think that i could use the miao dau better
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Posted 10/10/08
Actually, i would prefer the Black dagger because at night it is impossible for people to see the blade but it slices throats real easy.
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Posted 10/10/08

shikegulumala wrote:

Actually, i would prefer the Black dagger because at night it is impossible for people to see the blade but it slices throats real easy.


?
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Posted 10/16/08
lmao telso. that expression. . . . I say no more

I am not quiet sure of the proximity in length of the claymore, but it would have won, though , but I go with what I know most about so I picked the Katana. That may not by an appropriate justification. but If I was to further this, It would take much more research, in with I do not have adequate time because I should be doing an assignment right now. ^_^. I will postpone my vote. and through posting I will vot on my say of the Katana and further evaluate later on.
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Posted 10/22/08
personally i'll go for the tessen ...but not for its practical purpose but because of the elegance of this almost unique weapon...also the tessen is not ment for killing is more like defence ...it was know the fact that the samurai weren't allowed to have any sharp object on them while paying a vistit to a superior in rank or while playing around in the red light district....in those circumstances any kind of weapon was seen as a brutal defiance towards the unspoken rules of that period (especially during Edo period), so in order to have something in case of a sudden attack...ther created this beauty
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Posted 10/25/08

marjan007 wrote:

personally i'll go for the tessen ...but not for its practical purpose but because of the elegance of this almost unique weapon...also the tessen is not ment for killing is more like defence ...it was know the fact that the samurai weren't allowed to have any sharp object on them while paying a vistit to a superior in rank or while playing around in the red light district....in those circumstances any kind of weapon was seen as a brutal defiance towards the unspoken rules of that period (especially during Edo period), so in order to have something in case of a sudden attack...ther created this beauty


OOOOHHH.....I always liked how a fan can be used as a weapon as well. Other than the katana that i'm fascinated with, it's the Tessen that i would really like to know how to use. I agree with your vote and for the same reasons as well LOL. I never thought it was actually used and thought it was fiction :X But now that i know it's real and used...WOOAAHH O.O
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Posted 10/25/08

kokomousey wrote:


marjan007 wrote:

personally i'll go for the tessen ...but not for its practical purpose but because of the elegance of this almost unique weapon...also the tessen is not ment for killing is more like defence ...it was know the fact that the samurai weren't allowed to have any sharp object on them while paying a vistit to a superior in rank or while playing around in the red light district....in those circumstances any kind of weapon was seen as a brutal defiance towards the unspoken rules of that period (especially during Edo period), so in order to have something in case of a sudden attack...ther created this beauty


OOOOHHH.....I always liked how a fan can be used as a weapon as well. Other than the katana that i'm fascinated with, it's the Tessen that i would really like to know how to use. I agree with your vote and for the same reasons as well LOL. I never thought it was actually used and thought it was fiction :X But now that i know it's real and used...WOOAAHH O.O


WOOAAHH, also koko!
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Posted 10/29/08
Each weapon has their own secrets and weaknesses.

I'd like a Dual-sided dagger with glass on 1 side, and black on the other. The blades can hide in both light and dark. But, it's not on the list.

It doesn't matter how powerful the weapon is, just so long as it deceives the enemy, and attacks fast, with your dexterity and speed, you're an unstoppable machine.
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