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Post Reply What weapon is better?
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Posted 1/9/09
Thanks. Sorry for not answering the questions, I'm not online often. Also, i apologize for flipping back and forth, it's a bit hard for me to even make it clear to myself. Thanks for the recommendations, i found Wu-tzu in between my father's books. Anyway, psychiatry involves knowing a person's emotions, so, using the emotions to your advantage will mean that psychiatry really can assist in battles. Example, if a mindless brute tries to knock you down from your face, you can enrage him to let him waste a lot of strength while you spare a few for yourself. Assassins might use Nodachi to knock someone unconcious. An imitation of the sentry kill for an assassin that hates killing with bare hands. Also, I noticed that adding a thin aluminium wire and attach it to a shuriken, you can create a projectile that can be used repeatedly. If the wire is thin enough, it may also cut. Yes, shikaku usually just run up to the enemy and kill. One good example of this is from the movie Azumi. But i was considering more of those assassins that camp on trees and wait for the right moment to move.
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Posted 1/10/09

shikegulumala wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for not answering the questions, I'm not online often. Also, i apologize for flipping back and forth, it's a bit hard for me to even make it clear to myself. Thanks for the recommendations, i found Wu-tzu in between my father's books. Anyway, psychiatry involves knowing a person's emotions, so, using the emotions to your advantage will mean that psychiatry really can assist in battles. Example, if a mindless brute tries to knock you down from your face, you can enrage him to let him waste a lot of strength while you spare a few for yourself. Assassins might use Nodachi to knock someone unconcious. An imitation of the sentry kill for an assassin that hates killing with bare hands. Also, I noticed that adding a thin aluminium wire and attach it to a shuriken, you can create a projectile that can be used repeatedly. If the wire is thin enough, it may also cut. Yes, shikaku usually just run up to the enemy and kill. One good example of this is from the movie Azumi. But i was considering more of those assassins that camp on trees and wait for the right moment to move.


Psychiatry is a medical practice of treating neurological, emotional, and behavioral disorders and abnormalities.
It doesn't have anything to do with using emotions to 'your advantage' or reading emotions. And no it cannot assist you in battle.

When do you have time to think about all of that in a fight? Have you been in a real fight before?

Why would an assassin use a nodachi? That was one of my previous questions left unanswered.
Do you know what a nodachi is?

A shuriken was not even a weapon. It was originally a flat peice of scrap metal to be thrown at someone and cause a monetary distraction and adding wire to it will render it completely useless.

The movie Azumi is fiction, you really should get a grip on the difference between fiction and reality. I do not mean to offend by saying this, but I have yet to see a movie that does justice to martial arts or historical accuracy. Movies are meant to entertain; if they were realistic, much of the mindless masses would not be entertained and thus movies would never make any money.

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Posted 1/10/09
If you put it that way, i have no comments about the movie part, maybe i was being imaginative. Nodachi... Horseback blade. Used often to knock soldiers off their horses. After being knocked off, they usually get trampled by their previously-mounted horses or be killed by other soldiers, unless he can defend himself properly. In a real fight, things get very exciting, and you have to act and think quickly. What's around me? What can i use? Dip my sword in oil then ignite it? Swing down the bamboo as a trap? Look for his weakness? Oh, he has not much tolerance towards dishonour, i should dishonour him and let him waste most of his energy, then knock him out when he's tired. Dishonouring him is a bit hard, he's trying to crush me with his bare hands.I should tire him instead. Shoot, i left my hidden blade at home. I should get a bit of distance and try to throw my needles at him. At least until the poison takes effect, i should keep dodging.

That's most probably what a shikaku thinks. This should be what an assassin thinks.

Hmm, he should walk by this road any minute... I got it clear. When he passes by, i will use a swingover used for decapitation to knock him off the horse. Then, when i reach the other tree, i will throw half of all my needles at once. He can block a few, but 350 would be just too much for him to even block. Then, let the poison take effect. If any medics come forth, decapitate them.
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Posted 1/10/09

shikegulumala wrote:

If you put it that way, i have no comments about the movie part, maybe i was being imaginative. Nodachi... Horseback blade. Used often to knock soldiers off their horses. After being knocked off, they usually get trampled by their previously-mounted horses or be killed by other soldiers, unless he can defend himself properly. In a real fight, things get very exciting, and you have to act and think quickly. What's around me? What can i use? Dip my sword in oil then ignite it? Swing down the bamboo as a trap? Look for his weakness? Oh, he has not much tolerance towards dishonour, i should dishonour him and let him waste most of his energy, then knock him out when he's tired. Dishonouring him is a bit hard, he's trying to crush me with his bare hands.I should tire him instead. Shoot, i left my hidden blade at home. I should get a bit of distance and try to throw my needles at him. At least until the poison takes effect, i should keep dodging.

That's most probably what a shikaku thinks. This should be what an assassin thinks.

Hmm, he should walk by this road any minute... I got it clear. When he passes by, i will use a swingover used for decapitation to knock him off the horse. Then, when i reach the other tree, i will throw half of all my needles at once. He can block a few, but 350 would be just too much for him to even block. Then, let the poison take effect. If any medics come forth, decapitate them.


In a real fight you never have time to think. I grew up in Kansas City, a city notorious for it's violent crime, and I learnt the fact about thinking the hard way.

Dip your sword in oil? I don't mean to offend, but that is ridiculous.
A shikaku doesn't think. They run at their target and try and deliver a fatal blow before dying. I really do think you've been watching too much anime or something.

But still, why would an assassin use an unwieldy and cumbersome weapon such as a nodachi?


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Posted 1/11/09
Oh my, you must have been living a life of terror and/or excitement... Try blocking instead of fighting back. Like my grandpa said, the weak attack, the strong counter.

Yeah, the sword in oil part is a bit ridiculous. it can coat the sword in fire, but a clumsy idiot will hurt himself.. Thanks for reminding me. A shikaku doesn't think... Interesting. He might die if he doesn't think at all. If the VIP is surrounded by 200 people, i think thinking should still be a necessity anyway. Trying to kill the target before the target and the target's guards kill you, that is really quite interesting. I'm taking on a new interest in shikaku suddenly.

Sometimes, an assassin has to kill his target when the target is not asleep. Usually, the assassin can use the nodachi to knock down his bodyguards, followed by poison needles searing into the target to finish the job. The nodachi may be used as a defensive weapon, a distraction weapon and a weapon that shut down security. He may use the nodachi to knock the bodyguards unconscious, then kill the target; He may use the nodachi to knock the target down, and then kill him; He can throw the useless nodachi to another space nearby, and then kill the target without anyone noticing. You said that the nodachi was useless, so, might as well use it for a distraction weapon.
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Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/12/09

shikegulumala wrote:

Oh my, you must have been living a life of terror and/or excitement... Try blocking instead of fighting back. Like my grandpa said, the weak attack, the strong counter.

Yeah, the sword in oil part is a bit ridiculous. it can coat the sword in fire, but a clumsy idiot will hurt himself.. Thanks for reminding me. A shikaku doesn't think... Interesting. He might die if he doesn't think at all. If the VIP is surrounded by 200 people, i think thinking should still be a necessity anyway. Trying to kill the target before the target and the target's guards kill you, that is really quite interesting. I'm taking on a new interest in shikaku suddenly.

Sometimes, an assassin has to kill his target when the target is not asleep. Usually, the assassin can use the nodachi to knock down his bodyguards, followed by poison needles searing into the target to finish the job. The nodachi may be used as a defensive weapon, a distraction weapon and a weapon that shut down security. He may use the nodachi to knock the bodyguards unconscious, then kill the target; He may use the nodachi to knock the target down, and then kill him; He can throw the useless nodachi to another space nearby, and then kill the target without anyone noticing. You said that the nodachi was useless, so, might as well use it for a distraction weapon.


Try blocking? You really haven't been in a real fight, have you? That's pretty arrogant and kinda rude of you 'schooling' me on fighting when you know nothing of my situation.
A shikaku was often a completely untrained commoner who was given a crude short sword and told that their family would be taken care of if they killed a person.

You still haven't told me why on earth an assassin would choose to use a nodachi. It's a completely ludicrous notion along with these 'poison needles' and stuff.

Why use a heavy, unwieldy and cumbersome weapon as a distraction when you can use mundane objects like rocks and sticks?

I can definitely see why Ryujins_Warrior got so frustrated with you. You expound on concepts you do not fully understand. If you're sincere about learning anything I suggest that you learn some humility and stop thinking everything you see on anime, movies, and cartoons is true.

Again, I don't say anything to offend. Please understand that if I didn't like you I wouldn't say anything and let you relish in your misconceptions.
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Posted 1/14/09 , edited 1/14/09
Well, Shike, you do realize that dealing with poisoned needles, and larger heavier swords is even more dangerous for the clumsy and untrained? Clean cuts are easier to treat and heal faster than blunt trauma or poisoning (provided that the victim survives). Plus, I read your posts about lead and metallurgy. Even if a substance is very hard, (diamond for instance) it can still be shattered. Maybe not scratched, but shattered.

Excessive hardness in metal weapons often causes them to become more brittle and more susceptible to damage by shock. Katanas are unique in that the hardness of the metal in the cutting edge and the metal in the rest of the blade are of different degrees of hardness, allowing for a sharp as well as durable blade. The curve of the katana also gives it additional structure and allows it to better resist shock. If any ordinarily-designed blade was forged from an excessively hard metal, it would be able to be sharpened to the extreme, but it would have a good chance of shattering or snapping when striking something. It would also chip and dull quite easily.

And isn't this topic is about the weapons listed? 0_o

About hand to hand combat: Being purely defensive gets you nowhere and does not stop the enemy from attacking you again and again until you're debilitated. Blocking should only be used if you have no other option (can't counterattack in time, and you are not in a position to dodge or 'check' the opponent's strike). Remember, when you block, you still can be injured, and having a blocking arm or hand (or God forbid....a leg) damaged in a fight is VERY bad. FYI, I've done a lot of bone conditioning and I still hate blocking kicks or other attacks outright because a serious attack still kinda hurts. Conditioning just helps me prevent injuries that could happen to me and adds a little more umph to my punches and kicks.

It would be better to attack quickly and take down the foe rather than wait and let him swing at you. The faster he goes, the less tired you get and the less likely you will be harmed.The earlier you take him down, the less time he has to hit you, and this reduces the number of attacks he can even launch. This isn't to say that good reaction time and blocking are not important, however. Knowing how to block helps prevent unexpected things from slipping through and provides a 'cushion' of safety (It's better for you to break a wrist than have that surprise kick land in your face). However, when you are in a fight, it's ALWAYS good to end it fast, especially if the other guy is wielding a weapon. You don't have to kill him or anything (you probably shouldn't), just make it so he can't hurt you or make him lose the will to fight you.

Of course, avoiding the fight completely would be the best thing. Running should be the first thing that comes to mind when faced with a possible serious physical confrontation. The goal in a confrontation should always be to neutralize the threat while preventing as much damage to yourself as possible, if you cannot run. For the sake of furthering these talks, I'll just assume you cannot run.
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Posted 1/14/09


Very well said.
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And about the sword: The nodachi is much larger than the katana. The weight of the metal should also be taken into account when forging a blade. Even if a lead blade could be sharpened, tempered and crafted into a fine blade, it would be heavier than a steel blade, and considering the size of most nodachis, this would make it extra unwieldy. It is designed to be an anti-cavalry weapon, so it probably already weighs considerably more than standard katanas. For stealth killings, you're better off with daggers and short swords that can be easily concealed and sharpened more than battle blades since you aren't aiming to block anything with them in the first place. Assassins should not carry an anti-cavalry weapon, they should use something small and inconspicuous. Wielding a long weapon in confined spaces would be difficult and would compromise your stealth.

Needles: Poisoned needles are effective weapons, but flinging needles is not easy. Just try flinging them. I practice with larger needles (about 4.5 inches, with around the same diameter as the thickness of a nickel. Even just flinging three or four with enough force to penetrate over a distance is VERY difficult (the farthest I can throw these with enough force to puncture plastic 2-liter bottles is only around 12 feet), so I wouldn't be surprised if throwing 350 of them over a longer distance was near-impossible. Acupuncture needles are much too light to be thrown like that, and the less you handle a poisoned weapon, the less risk you will be taking. So why not load a poison dart into a blowgun and just use that? Throwing is pretty much unnecessary in this case.
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Posted 2/10/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


shikegulumala wrote:

Oh my, you must have been living a life of terror and/or excitement... Try blocking instead of fighting back. Like my grandpa said, the weak attack, the strong counter.

Yeah, the sword in oil part is a bit ridiculous. it can coat the sword in fire, but a clumsy idiot will hurt himself.. Thanks for reminding me. A shikaku doesn't think... Interesting. He might die if he doesn't think at all. If the VIP is surrounded by 200 people, i think thinking should still be a necessity anyway. Trying to kill the target before the target and the target's guards kill you, that is really quite interesting. I'm taking on a new interest in shikaku suddenly.

Sometimes, an assassin has to kill his target when the target is not asleep. Usually, the assassin can use the nodachi to knock down his bodyguards, followed by poison needles searing into the target to finish the job. The nodachi may be used as a defensive weapon, a distraction weapon and a weapon that shut down security. He may use the nodachi to knock the bodyguards unconscious, then kill the target; He may use the nodachi to knock the target down, and then kill him; He can throw the useless nodachi to another space nearby, and then kill the target without anyone noticing. You said that the nodachi was useless, so, might as well use it for a distraction weapon.


Try blocking? You really haven't been in a real fight, have you? That's pretty arrogant and kinda rude of you 'schooling' me on fighting when you know nothing of my situation.
A shikaku was often a completely untrained commoner who was given a crude short sword and told that their family would be taken care of if they killed a person.

You still haven't told me why on earth an assassin would choose to use a nodachi. It's a completely ludicrous notion along with these 'poison needles' and stuff.

Why use a heavy, unwieldy and cumbersome weapon as a distraction when you can use mundane objects like rocks and sticks?

I can definitely see why Ryujins_Warrior got so frustrated with you. You expound on concepts you do not fully understand. If you're sincere about learning anything I suggest that you learn some humility and stop thinking everything you see on anime, movies, and cartoons is true.

Again, I don't say anything to offend. Please understand that if I didn't like you I wouldn't say anything and let you relish in your misconceptions.


Thanks for teaching. You brought out my flaw so quickly. You are right. I should be humiliated. Rocks and sticks may be useful, but that time, i was already wondering, throwing these things only gives the impression of a foot movement. If a cumbersome knife was used instead, it would sound like someone dropped his weapon, giving impressions that the assassin is clumsy. Maybe that was why i thought of that in the first place. Now I'm reading a chinese book, but it is really hard to understand because it's written in a form dad calls "Jia Gu Wen". He says that it's the very first chinese characters...

Yeah, i read about that in Wikipedia... Shikaku were usually untrained villagers.
If Ryujins_Warrior comes, help me apologize to him, please.
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Posted 2/12/09

shikegulumala wrote:
Thanks for teaching. You brought out my flaw so quickly. You are right. I should be humiliated. Rocks and sticks may be useful, but that time, i was already wondering, throwing these things only gives the impression of a foot movement. If a cumbersome knife was used instead, it would sound like someone dropped his weapon, giving impressions that the assassin is clumsy. Maybe that was why i thought of that in the first place. Now I'm reading a chinese book, but it is really hard to understand because it's written in a form dad calls "Jia Gu Wen". He says that it's the very first chinese characters...

Yeah, i read about that in Wikipedia... Shikaku were usually untrained villagers.
If Ryujins_Warrior comes, help me apologize to him, please.


The only shame that exists in being wrong is the one that comes from making the same mistake twice.
You shouldn't be humiliated. There is no flaw in ignorance, only in not overcoming it.
A wise man gracefully accepts criticism [when constructive] and always strives to better himself from learning from his mistakes. Because without making mistakes no one could ever learn or grow.

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Posted 2/27/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:



Well I'd say none are better.
They each have their own uses. I would say a shuriken and claymore might be a bit more disadvantageous against the other mentioned weapons for their own reasons.
A claymore is a fairly unbalanced weapon. It's not as heavy as it may appear to be, but it can be unwieldy and awkward. The hira-shuriken evolved from a semi-sharpened [or sometimes unsharpened] flat piece of square scrap metal. It did not often penetrate an opponent and was used by samurai as a tool of distraction not unlike the quintessential swashbuckler throwing sand in his duelist opponent's face as both a taunt and a momentary distraction. Even in it's evolutions, the penetration would not likely be sufficient to kill or end a fight for that matter. The bo-shuriken was a pointed dart which held a bit more penetrating power. It could potentially end a fight, but it still was not as effective as using a sword or another mentioned weapon. The kogatana was the quintessential samurai throwing blade often held in the tsuka itto or kozuka itself. Some were throwing blades yet others were small knives meant for cutting. They have even more stopping power. However none equal the effective stopping power of a sword.

The manriki gusari is a weapon I adore. It was held in the sleeves and thrown out. It could block, entangle, grapple, strike, and trap enemies and/or their weapons. It is a chain whip of sorts.


A tessen is either a solid iron bar that appears to be a folded fan, or the more expensive and less effective yet more convenient version of an actual folding fan with iron spines.

The latter is less effective as it is lighter, less durable, and the solid iron bar can stop a weapon with a bit more "umpf." It is more convenient as it still is effective against a weapon and it has a multi practical use of being an actual fan and having stealth capabilities being that others may assume it is made of wood and attack you.


Completely agrees
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Well, i woldn't choose a calymore since its not a very eficient weapon. Big swords,like claymores, have several disanvantages. They can be too heavy, but thats not always the case, and also much less balanced than other types of swords. They're size can also make swinging them akward and causes the one weilding them to lose speed wich can cause one his life.
I also wouldn't choose a Miao Dao because of the same reasons writen above. It's far larger the most chinese swords and are ment to kill horsemen along with its horse. It's good for it's intended use, but not very practical otherwise.
A tessen is a generals(or an aristocrats and even a scholras) weapon. It's meant for defense and not offense, in other words for someone that doesn't see battle very often.
Shurikens are good for assasinations, but you're in trouble if you run out of them, so its not the most efective ninja weapon for a head on battle.
The chain whip is a good, but very dificult weapon. Someone training in martial arts is most likely to hust themselvs with a chain wiph, a rope dart or a meteor hammer. It's one of the most dificult weapons to master but also has many advantages to match. The're lenght can keep the enemy at a safe distance(for you that is) and the style in wich they are used can confuse the openent and make it hard for him to block. They can also be hidden more easelly then other weapons so you also have the element of surprise.
My chooice is the katana. besides the fact there made from japanese steel(the purest in the world) japanese swordsmiths are very carefull and precise so the swords are(if made traditionaly) very durable and well balanced. The katana is light but it can cut a man in half in one swing, so you have the double advantage of speed and power.
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Posted 2/27/09

Costin wrote:

Well, i woldn't choose a calymore since its not a very eficient weapon. Big swords,like claymores, have several disanvantages. They can be too heavy, but thats not always the case, and also much less balanced than other types of swords. They're size can also make swinging them akward and causes the one weilding them to lose speed wich can cause one his life.
I also wouldn't choose a Miao Dao because of the same reasons writen above. It's far larger the most chinese swords and are ment to kill horsemen along with its horse. It's good for it's intended use, but not very practical otherwise.
A tessen is a generals(or an aristocrats and even a scholras) weapon. It's meant for defense and not offense, in other words for someone that doesn't see battle very often.
Shurikens are good for assasinations, but you're in trouble if you run out of them, so its not the most efective ninja weapon for a head on battle.
The chain whip is a good, but very dificult weapon. Someone training in martial arts is most likely to hust themselvs with a chain wiph, a rope dart or a meteor hammer. It's one of the most dificult weapons to master but also has many advantages to match. The're lenght can keep the enemy at a safe distance(for you that is) and the style in wich they are used can confuse the openent and make it hard for him to block. They can also be hidden more easelly then other weapons so you also have the element of surprise.
My chooice is the katana. besides the fact there made from japanese steel(the purest in the world) japanese swordsmiths are very carefull and precise so the swords are(if made traditionaly) very durable and well balanced. The katana is light but it can cut a man in half in one swing, so you have the double advantage of speed and power.


Welcome to the group. I agree with the claymore and miao dao, but a Tessen was actually quite popular among the entire bushi class. I have been taught some tessenjutsu and several mutodori techniques utilizing tessen and I must say that it is quite capable of offense. Most techniques involve defense and offense in the fashion of blocking and counter-attacking. But you are right, it is not a weapon prudent for battle. However during the edo period when most battles were not war but rather skirmishes on the streets, it is a very efficient weapon. Never be caught of guard.

Shuriken are actually not used for assassinations at all. There are no real 'ninja' weapons as ninja were spies and spies alone. Shikaku were assassins and their technique was extremely crude as they had no military training and did not use specialized equipment like the ninja are fabled to have used. Shuriken started out as flat dull pieces of scrap metal that were thrown as a method of distraction so that a warrior could gain the initiative. The equivalent of throwing sand in the face of an enemy. They ultimately became throwing knives, but very rarely made a killing blow. The most popular were not multi-pointed shaken [which were for the most part decorative] but rather darts or kozuka blades called "kogatana."

A chain whip is a difficult weapon. That's why we train with rope first and then progress to the actual chains.
You're dead on about the Katana. It would be my weapon of choice dependent upon the battle.

I look forward to seeing more of your input in the forums and I hope you enjoy the group!
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Posted 2/27/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


Costin wrote:

Well, i woldn't choose a calymore since its not a very eficient weapon. Big swords,like claymores, have several disanvantages. They can be too heavy, but thats not always the case, and also much less balanced than other types of swords. They're size can also make swinging them akward and causes the one weilding them to lose speed wich can cause one his life.
I also wouldn't choose a Miao Dao because of the same reasons writen above. It's far larger the most chinese swords and are ment to kill horsemen along with its horse. It's good for it's intended use, but not very practical otherwise.
A tessen is a generals(or an aristocrats and even a scholras) weapon. It's meant for defense and not offense, in other words for someone that doesn't see battle very often.
Shurikens are good for assasinations, but you're in trouble if you run out of them, so its not the most efective ninja weapon for a head on battle.
The chain whip is a good, but very dificult weapon. Someone training in martial arts is most likely to hust themselvs with a chain wiph, a rope dart or a meteor hammer. It's one of the most dificult weapons to master but also has many advantages to match. The're lenght can keep the enemy at a safe distance(for you that is) and the style in wich they are used can confuse the openent and make it hard for him to block. They can also be hidden more easelly then other weapons so you also have the element of surprise.
My chooice is the katana. besides the fact there made from japanese steel(the purest in the world) japanese swordsmiths are very carefull and precise so the swords are(if made traditionaly) very durable and well balanced. The katana is light but it can cut a man in half in one swing, so you have the double advantage of speed and power.


Welcome to the group. I agree with the claymore and miao dao, but a Tessen was actually quite popular among the entire bushi class. I have been taught some tessenjutsu and several mutodori techniques utilizing tessen and I must say that it is quite capable of offense. Most techniques involve defense and offense in the fashion of blocking and counter-attacking. But you are right, it is not a weapon prudent for battle. However during the edo period when most battles were not war but rather skirmishes on the streets, it is a very efficient weapon. Never be caught of guard.

Shuriken are actually not used for assassinations at all. There are no real 'ninja' weapons as ninja were spies and spies alone. Shikaku were assassins and their technique was extremely crude as they had no military training and did not use specialized equipment like the ninja are fabled to have used. Shuriken started out as flat dull pieces of scrap metal that were thrown as a method of distraction so that a warrior could gain the initiative. The equivalent of throwing sand in the face of an enemy. They ultimately became throwing knives, but very rarely made a killing blow. The most popular were not multi-pointed shaken [which were for the most part decorative] but rather darts or kozuka blades called "kogatana."

A chain whip is a difficult weapon. That's why we train with rope first and then progress to the actual chains.
You're dead on about the Katana. It would be my weapon of choice dependent upon the battle.

I look forward to seeing more of your input in the forums and I hope you enjoy the group!


Well im glad to be part of the group. I know that tessen can be very useful if used in the right place by the right person. I remember a story about how, Takeda Shingen managed to defend himself against Uesugi Kenshins blows with a tessen during the one of the Battles of Kawanakajima.
As far as i know ninja were spies, assasins and scouts etc. I know that ninja never had the stylized weapons that most people asociate to them, and that they were merely adapted from farm tools, because ninja were originally peasents, and acted like peasents untill they received a mission.
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